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 REIT, real estate investment...

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Jordy
post Jun 16 2008, 07:10 PM

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QUOTE(Neo18 @ Jun 16 2008, 03:13 PM)
bought some STAREIT today @ 0.84!!!

now i got 21 counter in my portfolio!!! not enough place in my favourite folder liow!!! hahahaha...
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Wow, are you sure you are able to monitor all of them?
Out of these counters, how many of them is going to be for long term?
Hope you don't mind sharing smile.gif
Jordy
post Jun 17 2008, 12:16 PM

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QUOTE(Neo18 @ Jun 17 2008, 10:29 AM)
I think i can monitor kua.

Out of 21 counter, i think 15 is going for long term. only 6 for short term.

The reason i buy so many is because i am still new to this stock market thingy. So i want to learn as much as possible. Even if i lose money, at least i'm not losing the experience.

Therefore, i buy each counter, so that i can follow their development.

It's like, when u watch football, u don't bet, then no shoik lor..hahahaha
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Oh, a gamble ya? tongue.gif
I take that you have around 3 REITs in your portfolio at the moment?
So what about the other 12? Are they with good fundamentals?
Jordy
post Jun 17 2008, 04:00 PM

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QUOTE(Neo18 @ Jun 17 2008, 01:15 PM)
ya i have ATRIUM/AXIS and STAREIT

other 12, can say ok ok la.. good fundamental lor

PBank
MASteel
TGOffshore
Notion
PPerdana
Commerze
Asiatic


Added on June 17, 2008, 1:19 pm
may i know where do u get all this information?

Thanks
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Nice portfolio! I need to take a look at them too smile.gif
The information for Top 30 shareholders can be obtained in their annual report, and that is free.
But you need to do some of your analysis and calculations, which i always do smile.gif
Jordy
post Jun 18 2008, 01:36 AM

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QUOTE(Molotov Cocktail @ Jun 17 2008, 04:56 PM)
i hav questions bout reit, can anyone answer? is reit is comply with shariah? since when the early reit is listed in KLCI?
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REITs are non Shariah compliant. If you take a look at Starbiz under Main Board section, it is very clear.
Shariah law forbids any sort of 'interest' type of payment. I believe rentals are considered 'interest'.
Shariah advocates Mudharabah (profit-sharing), but not profiting from interests.
That is why conventional banks are not Shariah compliant.
Do correct me if I am wrong, as I am not Islam tongue.gif

QUOTE(cherroy @ Jun 17 2008, 09:43 PM)
The first reit to list in KLSE is Stareit, if not mistaken.
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cherroy, the first REIT was AXREIT, listed in August 2005.
STAREIT was listed in November 2005 smile.gif
Jordy
post Jun 18 2008, 06:28 AM

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QUOTE(Molotov Cocktail @ Jun 18 2008, 03:50 AM)
Thanks 4 ur info. FYI in Islam, rentals are not considered as interest. In my opinion some reits are considered non shariah compliant if they collect rentals from business that associated with gambling and selling alcoholic drink.
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Thank you for pointing that out smile.gif
Well, there may be other factors as well, because I can see some Islamic REITs which are not shariah compliant as well.
It could also be because of credit facilities of REITs? It might cause REITs to be non-compliant.
Whatever it is, REITs as a whole, have all been declared non-compliant as seen in Starbiz.
Jordy
post Jun 26 2008, 08:59 PM

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STAREIT sparked large interest because CapitaLand bought a 61.9% stake in Sungei Wang Plaza. Sungei Wang Plaza is the asset of STAREIT, so they are looking for higher distribution.

This is just my 2 cents of opinion. Might be other reasons though smile.gif
Jordy
post Jun 26 2008, 10:15 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Jun 26 2008, 09:16 PM)
Sungei Wang Plaza has nothing to do with Stareit. Stareit portfolio properties are Lot 10 (opposite of Sungei Wang  tongue.gif), Starhill and JW Marriot.

Properties counters (including Reits) are on the way down because market anticipated poor property market ahead due to high inflation might eat into consumers pocket and lead to slowdown in property and construction as well as overall economy. Even SPB is selling at below Rm3 now.  brows.gif
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Dear lord, I apologise for my mistaken identity tongue.gif
I don't remember the assets of STAREIT because I didn't own it. Hehe.

Well, if prices are beaten down in anticipation of what cherroy said, it is the time to pick up some REIT counters as the core revenue of REITs are not affected by the inflation in the mid-term. Most REITs had/are going to renew their major lease contracts this year. So, that should keep the income of REITs strong for the coming 3-5 years smile.gif
Jordy
post Jul 11 2008, 03:08 PM

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QUOTE(Neo18 @ Jul 11 2008, 01:34 PM)
i think i want to whack 100 lot @1.64 la.. so i don't have to think about buying other stock!!!
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Do you really have such a huge appetite at times like this? tongue.gif

QUOTE(ante5k @ Jul 11 2008, 02:03 PM)
so far reit is my least %of losses ..... other stocks no eye see....

my portfolio now 50% reit.. if market continue on like current situation, i'm bumping it up to 70%.
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Well, if you increase your holdings of REIT to 70%, then you have to remember that when market has huge rebound, REITs won't save your a$$ tongue.gif
At most you will be getting a slight capital appreciation with high DY. I'm still sticking with my other counters by averaging down the prices smile.gif
Jordy
post Jul 11 2008, 03:23 PM

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Yes, agree with cherroy's second statement. Unless there is a major upgrade in the fundamental of REITs, you wouldn't see a huge change in price. As we are midway through the storm now, are you sure you want to start being defensive?

Well, at least now we are seeing less new developments and higher prices of building materials. So AXREIT could be a good bet as it has a huge portfolio of properties. With less supply and sustained demand, we could see a huge increase in value for its properties.
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post Jul 17 2008, 02:25 PM

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QUOTE(ante5k @ Jul 17 2008, 12:27 PM)
axreit back with seller queue at 1.64
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At uncertain times like this, REITs also won't go very far.
Rental for this year is still almost the same, so I don't think there would be any higher distributions.
At this price, AXREIT does seem quite tempting and attractive though smile.gif
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post Jul 17 2008, 03:21 PM

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QUOTE(Singh_Kalan @ Jul 17 2008, 02:56 PM)
In my opinion, it's better to stick to stable heavyweight stock rather than REIT. As u know, msian property sucks.
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Hmm, and how many Malaysian heavyweights are stable in your opinion?
Well, Malaysian business cycle and politicking sucks either. So how do you justify it to be better? tongue.gif
REITs tend to lock in their annual income, so we would expect stable income for at least 3-5 years.
If you get REITs like AXREIT, STAREIT or HEKTAR, they are more stable because their main tenants are huge market players. The rental yield would not change much in a downturn when the agreement is renewed.

Just my 2 cents for sharing purposes though smile.gif
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post Jul 17 2008, 09:19 PM

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QUOTE(Singh_Kalan @ Jul 17 2008, 06:36 PM)
ya i know...as a shareholder of a stock, u also own part of the company...Just that the top management don't give a shit about who u r or your opinion.
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Please do not mix up REITs with the other common stocks. REITs are required by law to distribute at least 90% of their net income to the unitholders. REITs work differently from the common stocks as well. They do not have to seek unitholders approval before deciding to make any property acquisitions. Also, once they secured the property, they would lease it out for an agreed term and receive rental as income. So, it is more secured compared to the other common stocks smile.gif
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post Jul 17 2008, 10:13 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Jul 17 2008, 09:43 PM)
Yup, that's why I opt for some reits lately because even in economy difficult time, as long as those property under the reit is having long term tenants especially from strong corporate company, then income is somehow secure and won't be affected by other factor as compared to normal property stocks. So yield is pretty known and highly predictable and secured. As long as those yield is 2x of normal FD rate, I am somehow ok with it.
As normal property stock, if others subsidiaries of company (especially those from building sector) are doing poorly, then it might drag the whole group in term of profitability wise. Another one issue is that under the reit, profit must be distributed which will be only good for minoirty shareholders like ours. Unlike normal property stocks, even if company make tons of profit, but they can decide to keep it in the company forever even in cash form without any investment, while only give tiny bit of dividend to the shareholders.

Reit is like buying a property and rent it out. While in normal property stocks, you are participating in the company as shareholder, so totally different risk.

But downside of reit, they have not much room for the upside because of profit wise is stagnant and grows relative slow (rental increment won't be fast, and rental amount only can be negotiable after the tenants renew their lease) even if economy is good time, unlike those common stock, price can shoot up 2x 3x in good time.
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Agreed, and there is another downside of REITs though. Most of the REITs are highly geared (maximum 50%). Even now, the market standard of gearing for REITs is around 30%+. So if the interest rate does increase, it might reduce the margin for REITs. Well, I might be wrong though, so please correct me if I am smile.gif

Since REITs are required to distribute at least 90% of their net income, most of the REITs could not retain the profit for expansion purposes. Therefore, they have to depend on gearing, so the expansion would be limited, unless they issue more units, which would than reduce the shareholders equity.
Jordy
post Jul 18 2008, 01:04 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Jul 18 2008, 11:32 AM)
Yup, mostly reit listed currently is under some gearing especially when acquiring new properties. But with the SC rule of limitatin of 50%, it serves the ceiling they can go which is a good thing also. No doubt it would mean high interest expenditure but it won't be severe. Recent Reits sell-down might be because of this reason as well.

Also my view is even BNM increases the interest rate, it won't go too far, max I can see is 0.5% for near term only. The weakening economy might be a big concern for BNM to raise rate further even though inflation still pose a problem.

Those under right issue exercise (eg. Axreit with private placement of new shares at 1.68, if not mistaken few month ago) is a good way to finance the acquisition with incuring extra interest expenses.
*
Yeah, very true. My cost for AXREIT is RM1.76, which I think is high. I should bring it down to around RM1.71 soon, but now a bit tight because I am aiming IOICORP first tongue.gif
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post Jul 18 2008, 08:25 PM

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QUOTE(Neo18 @ Jul 18 2008, 02:34 PM)
guys,

I was hoping for AXREIT to annouce their interim report today.

Anyone knows when it will be out?
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It would most probably be in a fortnight's time smile.gif
They usually release it at the last week of the month.
Jordy
post Jul 21 2008, 10:10 AM

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QUOTE(ante5k @ Jul 21 2008, 10:06 AM)
regarding axreit, they issued new earlier his year, wont it dilute the earning , making EPS drop compare to before?
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Yes, the EPS will be diluted, but the earnings will not.
A better measure would be to look at the net profit, not the EPS.
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post Jul 21 2008, 01:56 PM

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QUOTE(Neo18 @ Jul 21 2008, 11:59 AM)
my 50 lot matched la @1.62
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50 lots as in RM81k or RM8.1k? tongue.gif
I'm also thinking of buying more AXREIT, but I need to save the money for my IOI cry.gif
Jordy
post Jul 21 2008, 03:37 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Jul 21 2008, 02:03 PM)
Should be 50 x 100, but I am sure he is capable to take Rm81K in one shot as well.

Anyway, I wait until below 1.60 to make my next purchase, as I don't like the idea averaging down in a too tight range, as this will make bullets depleted too fast.
Also, with plenty of cheap sale around or may be fire-sale in near future or next few weeks or month,  brows.gif who knows. Don't need to rush.
*
My cost now still at RM1.76, haven't averaged since then. So I guess I should average it soon smile.gif

QUOTE(Neo18 @ Jul 21 2008, 02:06 PM)
but the interim report coming up next week right? Not much time left in my opinion.

it's only 50 x 100. If go down to 1.60, i will buy another 50x100
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Even if the interim report comes out, I don't think that would create a lot of interests, as it would be anticipated most likely.
Unless there is substantial growth in profits, the price won't move much. Give it at around RM1.65 smile.gif
Jordy
post Jul 22 2008, 05:02 PM

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LOL, someone pushed ATRIUM's price to RM0.88 with 1 lot tongue.gif
Jordy
post Jul 22 2008, 05:06 PM

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Now I am just wondering which REIT I should buy hmm.gif
Both AXREIT and ATRIUM seems attractive. But buying 1 AXREIT can buy me 2 ATRIUM. ATRIUM's yield is better currently, but AXREIT has a diversified portfolio. Argh! cherroy, comments please? tongue.gif Just finished my BQ, so headache now. Can't think. Hehe.

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