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 Ultimate Discussions of ASB1/2-Financing, questions/comments/criticisms welcome

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SUSAud power
post May 2 2019, 02:51 PM

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QUOTE(wild_card_my @ May 2 2019, 02:10 PM)
Plenty of threads have been created about ASB financing in Kopitiam (so don't need to move this to Finance sub-forum la), this is no difference, but it starts without the ignorance of the thread starters. Many (either purposely or sincerely) mistook ASB-financing returns as the difference between the interest rate vs the yearly returns (distribution). Nothing can be further than the truth. The loan interest is calculated as a reducing balance, while the distributions (often mistakenly referred to as"dividend") is calculated on a yearly compounding basis.
 
In a way, ASB-financing is no different than buying a house with a mortgage. Both has a collateral which backs the loan, allowing the bank to approve the loans at low interest rates (4.4%-4.85% VS personal loans and credit cards with much higher rates). The main difference is in the collaterals themselves. To buy a house, you would bleed money to:

a) buy - SPA/LA/MOT/SD/Valuation/MRTA/10%-deposit
b) maintain - damages/rental-defaults/maintenance-fees/sinking-funds/cukai-pintu/cukai-tanah/fire-insurance
c) sell - RPGT/agent-fees/charge-to-discharge

No such thing with ASB and ASB-financing. You can invest in ASB just like any other unit trust, but at the same time you have the option of taking a loan to finance the investment:

a) There are no deposits required, you can get 100% financing
b) No legal fees involved other than RM60 for endorsement and stamping fees (not stamp duty)
c) Distributions are calculated on a prorated basis, there are no "distribution defaults" like when you are renting out your properties
d) No fees nor taxes to sell, there is a ready buyer - ASB is always ready to purchase the units and return your investment value to you in cash

Projections and assumptions:

1. Bank interest (financing) rate of 4.85% p.a - which may change according to the bank's base-rate (BR) movement
2. ASB expected returns of 6.5% p.a - which is lower than the historical lowest return of 7% a year for 2018 distribution
3. Loan and investment tenure of 35 years - maximum tenure, for 30 years old and below
4. Distributed units left in the ASB account to experience the effects of compounding
5. A small one-off insurance with the bank's panel insurance for RM350, capitalized into the financing

Total unit value after 35 years: RM1,812,450.97
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Total loan repayment after 35 years: RM416,665.20
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Bonus info. Total unit value after 35 years, but with cash-investment of the same monthly installment of RM992.06: RM1,528,086.67 . A difference of RM284,364.30 compared to investing using financing

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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This just sounds like the country giving away free money.

Bank loan you X amount at 4%, then you loan the same amount back to bank at 6%. You earn 2%. what a farce

this sort of practice conpletely go against the tenants of the free market, tongkat in its purest form

This post has been edited by Aud power: May 2 2019, 02:53 PM
SUSAud power
post May 2 2019, 03:00 PM

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I have solution to solve malaysia national debt, remove the 200k asb deposit limit, make it unlimited, everyone and their son go borrow 1mil from bank to put in asb and earn that sweet sweet 3%. For sure whole bumi being millionaiire
SUSAud power
post May 2 2019, 03:06 PM

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QUOTE(wild_card_my @ May 2 2019, 03:01 PM)
I told you, it is not "3%". Reducing balance vs compounding interests.

Penatlah!!!!!  cry.gif  cry.gif  cry.gif  cry.gif
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Effectively the bank is giving you a loan for less interest rate than the rate you earn from investing it back into asb.

Its like a chicken and egg situation, they both rely on each other to get tru the deposit loophole

this will never happen in a free economy
SUSAud power
post May 2 2019, 03:17 PM

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The bumi is just the mule in all this. The bank is using this as a way to loan money to themselves to earn that investment management fees, while offloading the liability to the bumi. If the investment fails then the government is forced to come in to guarentee the loan.

What i say is incorrect?
SUSAud power
post May 2 2019, 03:30 PM

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QUOTE(wild_card_my @ May 2 2019, 03:20 PM)
Not much liabilities

1. no negative returns (unlike UT)
2. no loan guarantees, it is treated like any other loans 

What you said is incorrect and misleading, but I cannot expect more from you  laugh.gif
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You have to consider this from the other side , or even just impartially , theres always a catch
SUSAud power
post May 2 2019, 03:31 PM

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QUOTE(wild_card_my @ May 2 2019, 03:23 PM)
Thin air? Would you describe that with properties?  laugh.gif

Because ASB-f and mortgages have the same principle. Collateral-borrowings
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If my property fail im screwed

If asb fail the government guarentee me
SUSAud power
post May 2 2019, 03:41 PM

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My argument is not just focusing on the loan recipient, but the entire system. Okay the loan recipient gets risk free - free money. Okay the banks earn the risk free investment fees. Everybody wins right?

Theres no such thing in reality as risk free free money, somewhere in the system the risk is accumilating , and wheb it explodes, who ends up paying?
SUSAud power
post May 2 2019, 03:42 PM

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QUOTE(bee88 @ May 2 2019, 03:38 PM)
Actually more like u can take the money to buy asb one shot and then every year withdraw amount ngam ngam to repay the loan amount. I bet with this technique you still have some money left in your asb after u have repaid the amount. Tat is what I meant by generating money out of thin air.
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This is literally what happens in asb now
SUSAud power
post May 2 2019, 04:24 PM

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let me ask - why dont the asb just cut the bumi out of the equation, and earn 100% the return?
SUSAud power
post May 2 2019, 04:31 PM

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QUOTE(wild_card_my @ May 2 2019, 04:27 PM)
ASB was created as tongkat to the Bumiputeras, because they do not invest their money. So ASNB was created to run ASB to encourage Bumis to save. Please read your history  laugh.gif  laugh.gif  laugh.gif
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to be honest im born in malaysia and wish i got the bumi perks but without the other stuff

This post has been edited by Aud power: May 2 2019, 04:31 PM
SUSAud power
post May 2 2019, 04:36 PM

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im surprised no one has created a way to invest in other bumi's asb loan by proxy, imagine 1 company with thousands of bumi proxies under them
SUSAud power
post May 2 2019, 04:40 PM

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QUOTE(wild_card_my @ May 2 2019, 04:39 PM)
Distribution, not interest. Interest is what the bank charges you.

If you are smart, you can make more money in Kenanga Investment lah. The only good thing about ASB is that it can be collateralizd, which means you can start your investment at RM993 a month but get RM200k in capital, at low interest rates.

But you are rich already, already have RM200k in hand, why bother? Just invest in Kenanga.

disclaimer: I do not work as Kenangar nor ASB agent.
omg. you really dont know what you are missing.

I do not engage. Don't ask.
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dam i want in on the action

im still young, need someone to take me as apprentice

have many rich friends with china money who love guarenteed investments

This post has been edited by Aud power: May 2 2019, 04:42 PM
SUSAud power
post May 2 2019, 04:43 PM

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QUOTE(bee88 @ May 2 2019, 04:42 PM)
U mentioned if you are smart. Not everyone is smart in investing. those comes with risk. Asb is risk free. As simple as that.
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its okay - if cant beat them join them
SUSAud power
post May 2 2019, 04:45 PM

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QUOTE(wild_card_my @ May 2 2019, 04:43 PM)
I got no lobang. I personally feel wrong about it. ASB is meant for bumi but hey what the hell do I know about "unfairness".

There are "agents" that engage in these proxy things. I don't. Normal arrangements that I know of is: you pay the monthly installment, and the "proxy" gets 10% of the distribution each year. You can either keep the 90% in the fund to let it grow or withdraw it to be reinvested into your own funds.

I have never heard of anyone prosecuted for this, but I am sure it is not strictly legal. Sounds and look like money laundering?
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Its probably in a grey area in law. Its probably breaking some sort of ASB terms and conditions. but as long as no one complain probably no one will care.


SUSAud power
post May 2 2019, 04:47 PM

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QUOTE(bee88 @ May 2 2019, 04:45 PM)
Why need proxy to help invest in asb. Asb office so many. Walk in and just let them fill all the form for u right? Hahaha
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no im talking about using bumis who arnt invested into ASB as the proxy, one company can have thousands of bumis each earning a % for your company. You just pay for their monthly installation + their 'profit', and you keep the rest. your company will handle all the documentation, and act as an agent to them

this is a weakness with regulated economy , people will start to find weakness and take advantage of it, and end up ruining it for everyone else

This post has been edited by Aud power: May 2 2019, 04:48 PM
SUSAud power
post May 2 2019, 04:49 PM

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QUOTE(wild_card_my @ May 2 2019, 04:47 PM)
Like I said, Muslim converts can invest in ASB  laugh.gif

user posted image

huh. That's weird. They consider Siamese and Portugese as eligible to invest in ASB but not Chinese and Indian?  ohmy.gif  hurm...
Told you this once before, when the returns are annualized, ASB returns are nothing to shout about leh. Public Mutual funds like Ittikal is comparable
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if i am born in sabah, have sabah ic and passport, but im no bumi , im excluded right?
SUSAud power
post May 2 2019, 04:51 PM

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QUOTE(bee88 @ May 2 2019, 04:44 PM)
And yeah, honestly. Why not just open asb to all. And everyone can invest without limit. Get good return. All can sit down and relax see the money comes. Everyone happy. Peace everywhere

Since their managing so good can get high return every year. Public mutual also lose.
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i dont think government can support doing this for everybody, for a portion of people can but not all

so the total asb loans has to be managed below a 'critical mass' limit
SUSAud power
post May 2 2019, 04:53 PM

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QUOTE(Aud power @ May 2 2019, 04:49 PM)
if i am born in sabah, have sabah ic and passport, but im no bumi , im excluded right?
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i wonder if asb is big in siam and Portuguey ? imagine all the untapped potential if you can find thousands of proxies there
SUSAud power
post May 2 2019, 04:55 PM

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QUOTE(wild_card_my @ May 2 2019, 04:53 PM)
Has to be Malaysian citizens though
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i see - hmm interesting market
SUSAud power
post May 2 2019, 05:03 PM

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QUOTE(wild_card_my @ May 2 2019, 04:57 PM)
why not just ask the Malays?

plenty of Malays who cant afford to pay RM993 a month
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Can you think of a way to get collateral in case bumi ignore me after i help deposit?

it seems the law and banks will be on bumi side

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