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 EXHAUST MOD QUESTION, NEED URGENT HELP.

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TSkrazymy
post Apr 15 2019, 03:49 PM

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QUOTE(Marcus95 @ Mar 17 2019, 11:30 PM)
What was vios stock piping diameter? I don’t think is 2’ right?
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Should be somewhere around 1.55 if I have not mistaken.

TSkrazymy
post Apr 15 2019, 03:50 PM

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QUOTE(JZenith @ Mar 18 2019, 08:52 AM)
i once drove a guy's hyundai atos, totally no lag while revving RPM compared to a normal atos, quiet during low and high RPM and the exhaust tip was 8".
whole system was about not over 1.1k
regret didnt ask about the installation shop / brand
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According to my experience, I think 80% the guy has de-cat it.

TSkrazymy
post Apr 15 2019, 03:53 PM

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QUOTE(bo093 @ Mar 16 2019, 03:45 PM)
You could flip it, is basically becoming a high flow bullet but without the function of absorbing sound.
As the 'fish scale' not facing the exhaust flow to capture noise/exhaust gas.
Might be good for top speed, as there is less restriction at higher rpm, so could contribute more HP to push.

I'm no specialist, just reading from internet and a few books on engine tuning.

If you have time and money  sweat.gif , why not try part by part.
In the end, doing just your exhaust won't really solve it.
Those intakes are gonna be your next thing then hi-cam and etc.  laugh.gif
Is all about making all the parts work together to achieve in what you need.
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I regret not doing them all piece by piece.. It's the bullet and the cat-con now confusing me. I think I will try flipping it around first and see how it goes. Hope you will still be here to help when I'm back once again though. My high end power gone after the combination of both cat-con and a swirl bullet, I think it's got too much of the so called backpressure, making gases hard to escape. I'm afraid that I might lose torque if I decat, but then it gives serious top end power..

TSkrazymy
post Apr 15 2019, 04:05 PM

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QUOTE(kelvin_87 @ Mar 16 2019, 01:08 PM)
the rest of mod have no effect?

Share us your stories and some photos too smile.gif
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I changed my original 14" rims to 15". Using 195/55/15 tyre profile, brand is LASSA IMPETUS REVO. Lowered it using Tein H-Tech sport spring paired with stock adsober with buffer front and back. Max bored the engine block and using extra large pistons, did PNP(port and polished) too. And then it's the exhaust which I'm doing now. My car has no fancy look bro haha, cacat paint and stock look only. Haven't got enough money to repaint it. Not planning to put in bodykit because I hate going over bumps like a snake. Oh ya also for the lightning I changed fog lamp into LED bulbs(3000k)and I changed the headlamp into eagle eye, bought new HID(4300k) too.

TSkrazymy
post Apr 15 2019, 04:06 PM

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QUOTE(Lexichi @ Mar 15 2019, 02:50 PM)
As I know, if your car engine CC is not that big, but your exhaust piping is too big for it, your car will lack of power.
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That's what I thought too, but then they said the inner diameter, 1.8 maximum is fine.

TSkrazymy
post Apr 15 2019, 04:07 PM

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Thank you all for either the question or the answer here and sorry for the late reply. Let's discuss and learn together.
JZenith
post Apr 15 2019, 04:54 PM

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QUOTE(krazymy @ Apr 15 2019, 03:50 PM)
According to my experience, I think 80% the guy has de-cat it.
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not sure about de-cat as the atos doesnt produce smelly exhaust gas like those straight pipes one.
TSkrazymy
post Apr 15 2019, 05:28 PM

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QUOTE(JZenith @ Apr 15 2019, 04:54 PM)
not sure about de-cat as the atos doesnt produce smelly exhaust gas like those straight pipes one.
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Must be high flow cat(the one with special kind of liquid applied on it I guess so it will filter the gas smell and thus you say it's not smelly) + straight flow mid bullet then.
kelvin_87
post Apr 15 2019, 11:44 PM

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QUOTE(krazymy @ Apr 15 2019, 04:05 PM)
I changed my original 14" rims to 15". Using 195/55/15 tyre profile, brand is LASSA IMPETUS REVO. Lowered it using Tein H-Tech sport spring paired with stock adsober with buffer front and back. Max bored the engine block and using extra large pistons, did PNP(port and polished) too. And then it's the exhaust which I'm doing now. My car has no fancy look bro haha, cacat paint and stock look only. Haven't got enough money to repaint it. Not planning to put in bodykit because I hate going over bumps like a snake. Oh ya also for the lightning I changed fog lamp into LED bulbs(3000k)and I changed the headlamp into eagle eye, bought new HID(4300k) too.
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hahaha stock with monster inside! Nice!

unitron
post Apr 16 2019, 12:18 PM

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QUOTE(krazymy @ Apr 15 2019, 03:47 PM)
I think I started to agree with you even more after putting back in a high flow cat-con. Below was my initial setup:
4-1, de-cat, swirl bullet and mugen twinloop muffler at the back.
I thought adding in back a high flow cat-con would making the car more powerful but then after almost a full month I realised that exhaust gases are getting harder to push than before. It becomes even more obvious when you are in high speed say around 110km/h or above.
I'm now just going to live with the current setup till I find the perfect solution.
F.Y.I. , my current setup:
4-1, high flow cat-con, swirl bullet, mugen twinloop.
What would you recommend for a all around setup?
I drive 50% city and 50% highway,sometimes I do going up to Genting highland as well. I'm thinking about selling away the newly bought cat-con.
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I would recommend you use 4-2-1, de-cat and a good straight flow muffler ( but u can probably still keep the Mugen twin loop, a proper one is "straight" flow, just that is pass thru 2x)
Again i would re-iterate i'm no expert and did not study fluid dynamics which is the actual science behind flow.

A 4 -1 exhaust is normally chosen by manufacturer because it is cheaper to make and use less space.
But if you think of suddenly a 4 lane highway merge to 1 lane... for sure there is restrictions, a 4 -2 -1 setup give the gases more time to merge properly

TSkrazymy
post May 13 2019, 01:43 PM

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QUOTE(unitron @ Apr 16 2019, 12:18 PM)
I would recommend you use 4-2-1, de-cat and a good straight flow muffler ( but u can probably still keep the Mugen twin loop, a proper one is "straight" flow, just that is pass thru 2x)
Again i would re-iterate i'm no expert and did not study fluid dynamics which is the actual science behind flow.

A 4 -1 exhaust is normally chosen by manufacturer because it is cheaper to make and use less space.
But if you think of suddenly a 4 lane highway merge to 1 lane... for sure there is restrictions, a 4 -2 -1 setup give the gases more time to merge properly
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Thank you so much for the recommendation. How about the mid bullet/resonator? A straight through one? I thought using straight flow muffler for A/T car will make the low end torque drop? I have got high flow cat installed and flipped around my mid bullet. I feel like the low end torque has increase, but not much, the worse part is when I'm at around 140km/h, I floor the pedal, and the rpm does go up quick, but then it just feel empty, speed doesn't go up at all, unless I go smooth.
wkc5657
post May 13 2019, 02:44 PM

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QUOTE(krazymy @ May 13 2019, 01:43 PM)
I feel like the low end torque has increase,  but not much, the worse part is when I'm at around 140km/h, I floor the pedal, and the rpm does go up quick, but then it just feel empty, speed doesn't go up at all, unless I go smooth.
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If rpm increases but no speed increase, problem is at the transmission, not locking up or something not right with the transmission internals.
TSkrazymy
post May 13 2019, 04:35 PM

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QUOTE(wkc5657 @ May 13 2019, 02:44 PM)
If rpm increases but no speed increase, problem is at the transmission, not locking up or something not right with the transmission internals.
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Thank you for answering my question bro. But I'm pretty sure it's not because of that.. Right before I flipped around my mid bullet and adding back in a sport cat, the pick up is smooth(but not as strong), the top speed is really good. It's goes all the way up to 160 smoothly.. Wondering what's the optimal setup for toyota vios first gen?
unitron
post May 14 2019, 01:41 PM

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QUOTE(krazymy @ May 13 2019, 01:43 PM)
Thank you so much for the recommendation. How about the mid bullet/resonator? A straight through one? I thought using straight flow muffler for A/T car will make the low end torque drop? I have got high flow cat installed and flipped around my mid bullet. I feel like the low end torque has increase,  but not much, the worse part is when I'm at around 140km/h, I floor the pedal, and the rpm does go up quick, but then it just feel empty, speed doesn't go up at all, unless I go smooth.
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Have you re-map the ECU ?
Your ignition timing, a/f ratio and VVT would need to be tuned back to take advantage of the flow increase.
TSkrazymy
post May 31 2019, 12:55 AM

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QUOTE(unitron @ May 14 2019, 01:41 PM)
Have you re-map the ECU ?
Your ignition timing, a/f ratio and VVT would need to be tuned back to take advantage of the flow increase.
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It's in my plan, but then I just can't do that before I'm sure that my setup is right. Speaking of ECU tuning, any recommendation? I heard both Unichip and E manage blue is good and cheap?
unitron
post May 31 2019, 09:16 AM

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QUOTE(krazymy @ May 31 2019, 12:55 AM)
It's in my plan, but then I just can't do that before I'm sure that my setup is right. Speaking of ECU tuning, any recommendation? I heard both Unichip and E manage blue is good and cheap?
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My recommendations is to re-map the factory fitted ECU. It gives the best performance and highest compatibility with all other systems in the car (immobilizer, PCU, ABS, and whatever else connected to the ECU)

Next would be standalone ECUs like Haltech which replaces the factory ECU for engine management completely

Unichip, Apexi Neo, E-manage blue/Ultimate are piggyback ECUs which doesn't give you as much gain as well as have compatibility issues.
I've used the Neo (hardly much gain) and the Ultimate (I even have it for sale if you're interested, laugh.gif ).
I removed it because ultimately (pun intended) it wasn't able to give me the gains. The factory ECU was always "fighting" and trying to overwrite the signals from the E-manage.
These piggybacks are modifying the signals from the ECU to the engine... but the factory ECUs has more sensors as well as a closed loop feedback and it always trying to re-compensate for whatever the piggyback ECUs are trying to do to return it back to factory setting as programmed.

TSkrazymy
post Jun 6 2019, 10:35 PM

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QUOTE(unitron @ May 31 2019, 09:16 AM)
My recommendations is to re-map the factory fitted ECU. It gives the best performance and highest compatibility with all other systems in the car (immobilizer, PCU, ABS, and whatever else connected to the ECU)

Next would be standalone ECUs like Haltech which replaces the factory ECU for engine management completely

Unichip, Apexi Neo, E-manage blue/Ultimate are piggyback ECUs which doesn't give you as much gain as well as have compatibility issues.
I've used the Neo (hardly much gain) and the Ultimate (I even have it for sale if you're interested,  laugh.gif ).
I removed it because ultimately (pun intended) it wasn't able to give me the gains. The factory ECU was always "fighting" and trying to overwrite the signals from the E-manage.
These piggybacks are modifying the signals from the ECU to the engine... but the factory ECUs has more sensors as well as a closed loop feedback and it always trying to re-compensate for whatever the piggyback ECUs are trying to do to return it back to factory setting as programmed.
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Thank you for such useful info sifu! I would have gone for piggyback if it wasn't you. So you are telling me that to remap the factory fitted ECU would be the best? Can I know how much roughly would a standalone cost please? As far as I know, ECU remapping costs around 450 for my car, piggyback is somewhere around 1500 depends on which brand, how about standalone? Is it worth going standalone over remapping factory fitted ECU?

unitron
post Jun 10 2019, 03:30 PM

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QUOTE(krazymy @ Jun 6 2019, 10:35 PM)
Thank you for such useful info sifu! I would have gone for piggyback if it wasn't you. So you are telling me that to remap the factory fitted ECU would be the best? Can I know how much roughly would a standalone cost please? As far as I know, ECU remapping costs around 450 for my car, piggyback is somewhere around 1500 depends on which brand, how about standalone? Is it worth going standalone over remapping factory fitted ECU?
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Re-map factory ECU is the best.

Standalone so far i haven't found a way or people to make it work with an automatic gearbox.
At least those friends i know using standalone ECUs, their cars are manual.

I imported a Haltech from Australia and sold it after not being able to find anyone who can guarantee able to make it work with my auto car.
A few tuners said possible, but they not able to show me a working example.
JustAnotherPaul P
post Jun 27 2019, 02:40 AM

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QUOTE(unitron @ Mar 17 2019, 09:09 PM)
4-2-1, de-cat, straight flow exhaust.

Oh.. if any shop talk about backpressure, you can be 120% sure the fellow talking cock.
There is no exhaust flow specialist in Sunway area.
There are exhaust pipe fabrication specialist...  doesn't mean they know a single thing about flow. Just their trial and error on customers cars

think about it.. back pressure means your engine need to work harder to push the exhaust gas out. You want maximum scavenging to pull
all the old gas out from the combustion chamber and help pull in new fresh air/fuel mix.

Car manufacturers need to meet strict global and the specific country emission standards, so the exhaust design is to minimize the carbon emission and other toxic fumes
So it's a compromise between power and emissions. But if you want pure power it's totally different. You see drag car design caring about backpressure ?

Anyway it's just my opinion as an engineer and changing many different exhaust setup for my cars, no need to listen or believe.
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JustAnotherPaul P
post Jun 27 2019, 02:49 AM

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QUOTE(JustAnotherPaul @ Jun 27 2019, 02:40 AM)

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Oops. First time using this forum. Still dont know how to use it well at all.

Anyways, what you said is true.
There is a HUGE HUGE HUGE misconception about backpressure.
Backpressure IS BAD. I guess what they are trying to find all the while is maximum velocity!


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