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Investment StashAway Malaysia, Multi-Region ETF at your fingertips!

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WhitE LighteR
post Nov 18 2020, 09:15 PM

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QUOTE(Xenopher @ Nov 18 2020, 09:06 PM)
I could be wrong but I think the difference is due to MWR being non-annualized and XIRR being annualized.
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IRR is annualized. XIRR I think is not...
polarzbearz
post Nov 18 2020, 09:18 PM

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QUOTE(WhitE LighteR @ Nov 18 2020, 07:44 PM)
the mwr number u get from SA?

then its curious indeed. I always thought its calculated the same way. hmm.gif

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/money-...hted-return.asp
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user posted image
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2P...d=0&single=true

Honestly I dont know how they count. Theoretically MWR should be same with XIRR. Maybe I am using "my cash flow" (my deposits/withdrawal if any) but they are using "their cash flow" (i.e. actual investment/dividends/withdrawals)

This post has been edited by polarzbearz: Nov 18 2020, 09:19 PM
polarzbearz
post Nov 18 2020, 09:22 PM

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QUOTE(WhitE LighteR @ Nov 18 2020, 09:15 PM)
IRR is annualized. XIRR I think is not...
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IIRC - both IRR and XIRR are annualised but the only difference is where XIRR is made to ADAPT to irregular cash flows, whereas IRR requires a periodical (and expected) cash flow for result to be accurate.

100% sure XIRR annualised as it's the base formula that many of us here use to track our portfolio, including my own published excel tracker laugh.gif
Quazacolt
post Nov 18 2020, 09:26 PM

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QUOTE(polarzbearz @ Nov 18 2020, 09:18 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Honestly I dont know how they count. Theoretically MWR should be same with XIRR. Maybe I am using "my cash flow" (my deposits/withdrawal if any) but they are using "their cash flow" (i.e. actual investment/dividends/withdrawals)
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your graph shows that time in market really beat timing market notworthy.gif
polarzbearz
post Nov 18 2020, 09:29 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Nov 18 2020, 09:26 PM)
your graph shows that time in market really beat timing market notworthy.gif
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I just realized that I also made extra top up (aside from monthly DCA) during March crash laugh.gif

This post has been edited by polarzbearz: Nov 18 2020, 09:30 PM
WhitE LighteR
post Nov 18 2020, 09:35 PM

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QUOTE(polarzbearz @ Nov 18 2020, 09:22 PM)
IIRC - both IRR and XIRR are annualised but the only difference is where XIRR is made to ADAPT to irregular cash flows, whereas IRR requires a periodical (and expected) cash flow for result to be accurate.

100% sure XIRR annualised as it's the base formula that many of us here use to track our portfolio, including my own published excel tracker laugh.gif
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In this case likely their MWR is not annualized.
lee82gx
post Nov 18 2020, 09:42 PM

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QUOTE(polarzbearz @ Nov 18 2020, 07:08 PM)
Not really.. Using the same start date MWR gives me about 48% since first deposit, whereas XIRR gives me about 22% XIRR.

Cash Flow is exactly the same.
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yes, finally sifu you come in!

I also realized their MWR,TWR whatever RRR not equal to your / Excel / my XIRR which is easily detailed out and TVM proper.
polarzbearz
post Nov 18 2020, 10:24 PM

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QUOTE(idyllrain @ Sep 26 2015, 12:24 AM)
That's basically ROI after averaging out the cost/unit. smile.gif
XIRR and IRR are both Excel functions that calculate IRR. The main difference is that XIRR can deal with random dates, while IRR assumes the values you give it to be periodic. The XIRR function gives you an annualized rate though, so if your data is less than year it'll give you big numbers:
user posted image

Here are some examples of the different return rate formulas used:
user posted image

Note that ROI and CAGR (a.k.a Annualized return) calculated the same values for all scenarios, these two measures are not time-sensitive: ROI measures the absolute return over cost of investment irrespective of how long it will take to get that rate, CAGR gives you the average return per year that your investment is compounding at.

IRR on the other hand takes into account the time-value of money, i.e. RM10 today is worth more than RM10 next year. To understand IRR more, you'll need to learn about NPV (Net Present Value, i.e what's the current value of a particular sum of money that you will get in the future).
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This post from idyllrain actually explained XIRR/IRR/ROI/CAGR very well if anyone's interested. From very old tered laugh.gif

I'm still trying to figure out what's with the MWR % but from StashAway's explanation, it seems like they also factored in "your timing" (ironically something we've been preaching AGAINST.... sweat.gif)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Anyway, I'll stick with my excel tongue.gif

QUOTE(lee82gx @ Nov 18 2020, 09:42 PM)
yes, finally sifu you come in!

I also realized their MWR,TWR whatever RRR not equal to your / Excel / my XIRR which is easily detailed out and TVM proper.
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Sifu 404 not found laugh.gif kucimiao got la

This post has been edited by polarzbearz: Nov 18 2020, 10:26 PM
joshtlk1
post Nov 19 2020, 12:34 AM

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Anyone invested with Akru? Thinking about dipping Mt ties in just to explore
Barricade
post Nov 19 2020, 10:05 AM

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Wah lau all the technical talk here. Can sum up for layman ar? biggrin.gif
WhitE LighteR
post Nov 19 2020, 10:09 AM

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QUOTE(Barricade @ Nov 19 2020, 10:05 AM)
Wah lau all the technical talk here. Can sum up for layman ar? biggrin.gif
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actually dont worry about it. the talk is because each of the above ppl tracking using excel or something. if u not tracking this way, no need to concern about all this.
blur19755
post Nov 19 2020, 11:16 AM

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QUOTE(joshtlk1 @ Nov 19 2020, 12:34 AM)
Anyone invested with Akru? Thinking about dipping Mt ties in just to explore
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pretty much very new, there's a thread talking about it.
I just started early this month, put in small amount to test water.
lee82gx
post Nov 19 2020, 11:22 AM

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QUOTE(polarzbearz @ Nov 18 2020, 10:24 PM)
This post from idyllrain actually explained XIRR/IRR/ROI/CAGR very well if anyone's interested. From very old tered laugh.gif

I'm still trying to figure out what's with the MWR % but from StashAway's explanation, it seems like they also factored in "your timing" (ironically something we've been preaching AGAINST.... sweat.gif)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Anyway, I'll stick with my excel tongue.gif
Sifu 404 not found laugh.gif kucimiao got la
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I've given it some brain juice, and my guess right now, without completely dissecting every single transaction the porfolio has done, is that the returns in Stashaway breaks down all of your individual purchases every time, so for example if one of the deposits bought you 0.2unit of XLV, another 0.1 of AAXJ at XYZ price etc, how does it work out in the current tally.

Stashaway's own explanation on the returns makes no sense to me without an example calculation..lol.

But XIRR still makes more sense to me, since it is the equivalent of cash flow into a fixed return, annualized.
vam
post Nov 19 2020, 03:30 PM

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guys .. ive been investing SAsince early this year didnt deposit monthly but every now and then .. once in a while i will open the app to have a look at my invested value

any idea why somedays when i have a look the amount is lesser than what i invested and some days its more than the invested amount?

risk index is 22% btw

This post has been edited by vam: Nov 19 2020, 03:30 PM
honsiong
post Nov 19 2020, 03:34 PM

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QUOTE(vam @ Nov 19 2020, 03:30 PM)
guys .. ive been investing SAsince early this year didnt deposit monthly but every now and then .. once in a while i will open the app to have a look at my invested value

any idea why somedays when i have a look the amount is lesser than what i invested and some days its more than the invested amount?

risk index is 22% btw
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Err coz its supposed to?

You expecting it to be like EPF and ASNB?
4eyeco
post Nov 19 2020, 03:45 PM

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QUOTE(vam @ Nov 19 2020, 03:30 PM)
guys .. ive been investing SAsince early this year didnt deposit monthly but every now and then .. once in a while i will open the app to have a look at my invested value

any idea why somedays when i have a look the amount is lesser than what i invested and some days its more than the invested amount?

risk index is 22% btw
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because the value will rise and fall..

u dont actually gain the profit or incur the loss until u withdraw.
vam
post Nov 19 2020, 03:52 PM

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QUOTE(honsiong @ Nov 19 2020, 03:34 PM)
Err coz its supposed to?

You expecting it to be like EPF and ASNB?
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QUOTE(4eyeco @ Nov 19 2020, 03:45 PM)
because the value will rise and fall..

u dont actually gain the profit or incur the loss until u withdraw.
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ah i see ... i actually tot it works like the SA simple just that the risk is higher

so you guys actually withdraw when you expect it to drop and deposit it back when you expect it to rise?

This post has been edited by vam: Nov 19 2020, 03:54 PM
Xenopher
post Nov 19 2020, 04:14 PM

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QUOTE(vam @ Nov 19 2020, 03:52 PM)
ah i see ... i actually tot it works like the SA simple just that the risk is higher

so you guys actually withdraw when you expect it to drop and deposit it back when you expect it to rise?
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Risk means how much the value can fluctuate from its 'fair value', so yes it can goes into negative region.

Correct way to invest recommended by StashAway in short:
Every month put in a fixed amount from your active income, ignore the ups and downs, consistently do this for years until you need that money.

I suggest you can go read up their articles (under Learn>Insights). Quite a lot of useful knowledge regarding investment.
zstan
post Nov 19 2020, 04:24 PM

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QUOTE(vam @ Nov 19 2020, 03:52 PM)
ah i see ... i actually tot it works like the SA simple just that the risk is higher

so you guys actually withdraw when you expect it to drop and deposit it back when you expect it to rise?
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only withdraw when you need the money not to time the market.
blur19755
post Nov 19 2020, 05:05 PM

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QUOTE(vam @ Nov 19 2020, 03:52 PM)
ah i see ... i actually tot it works like the SA simple just that the risk is higher

so you guys actually withdraw when you expect it to drop and deposit it back when you expect it to rise?
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I don't think you know what are you investing in.... as SA consists of multiple ETFs
but that's what SA for... meant for the dummys like me who don't know how to pick correct stocks to invest.

This post has been edited by blur19755: Nov 19 2020, 05:09 PM

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