I'm seriously thinking really need a kid or not .. yeah now you might thinking this person is selfish already .. yes kinda .. but if I'm too rich i dont mind raising a baby .. but with my current level I think its hard to maintain a kid .. or stay happy and travel around ..

for parents sure they want kids .. but its not about my parents only rite .. we both in same opinion ..

I will go for 2 child

But waifu got terrible morning sickness for my coming firstborn....might as well go for 1 child only

Perhaps it is not too selfish to consider the fact if you cannot give your child the best, it is better to not have one at all. Besides, it is not like we can just let them run out of the gate if we regret later on, but it would become a lifelong mistake for 3 (or more) people.

In the end, you are both living your own lives, not your parents'. Taking care of them in their old age is even more important than catering to their wants for grandchildren (finance, time etc).

Minimum 1 maximum 2.

" but with my current level I think its hard to maintain a kid"

TS, maybe you should improve your financial situation first? Having kid(s) is a long-term commitment, emotionally and financially.

If you and wife are still young, then don't rush to have kids.

Any decision now, hopefully no regrets later.

As second class citizens of this country, rather have no kids. Cost of living is escalating, education, food etc. We need a quality life , I would spend money on health, including that of spouse and grand parents, traveling, entertainment and gifts for ourselves, hobbies and charity. Not to mention less stress. Unless you are super filthy rich than that’s different

This post has been edited by abhipraaya: Feb 4 2019, 12:59 PM

i probably prefer no kid, now age 30 for me consider old enough to have baby. I prefer spend time with my man and family. i thankful for my bro giving my parent grandchild, i guess that is what they want afterall.

You can have kids then send them overseas to study, tell them to find a job and settle down there.

Hmm....
is it really a "need" question? or a "want" question?

It's your decision to having how many kid.
But, keep in mind that children can never decide their parents.

I have 1 kid that is now 17 years old with my ex-wife. Unfortunately I haven't seen her for 15 years.

Now I have a 9 month old baby. I don't think I will be having another one. We had our time travelling around the world and one day while on holiday decided the next stage was to have a baby and we did.

However we both decided we don't want to have another one as we prefer to do quality over quantity.

Someday if the 1st one comes back to see me then I'll be happy to accept her back but till then our one is it.

My partner and I both decided not to have kids.

Selfish, depends on your perspective. Everywhere I look, the reasons people have kids (and they are not ashamed to admit, and actually proud of it):

1. To satisfy parents
2. So-called 'next level in life'/'must experience'
3. Babies/kids are cute to play with/show off on social media
4. Need someone to take care of you when you grow old (mUh LoNeLiNeSs)
5. Didn't think/plan, people have, I have.
6. 'Accidents'

All of the reasons are extremely selfish, and none of them think from the kid's perspective. To me, that's called selfish.

While I think from the kid's perspective before I even have one:

1. Society is degrading. Youngsters get rich, famous and wasted for doing stupid stuffs on social media.
2. Education here sucks. Government 'not there' yet. Country is still 'developing' forever.
3. I want to raise and home-school my own kid, coz I don't trust anyone else, but since I'm not 'retired with passive income', I can't.
4. I cannot accept leaving my kid to nanny/grandparents/parents and risk being 'brainwashed' by their old mentality/nonsense.
5. Climate change worsening.
6. If I cannot give my kid the life I want him/her to have, then I cannot accept having one. And that's even when my finance is considered well off compared to my peers.

So when people ask me why I don't have kids, I just tell them in the face. They just laugh it off my seriousness but bringing someone into this world is serious matter, so I say you do you. I have my own principles in life, not blindly follow people.

This post has been edited by J1g54w: Feb 5 2019, 12:43 AM

Thank you guys..
Thanks for sharing opinion, experience and all.. many thanks

Hello, speak for yourself.

If you think you are second class, everywhere you go you are second class, because that is your mentality.

Sure there is imperfection in this country but for the reason why you view yourself as this, is the very reason why people treat you as second class.

I don't mind having kids, even if this country is like this, why? because we are not at the level like Syria. The environment is still condusive to have kids.

Me, my parents, my forefathers can still reek in a living despite the social disadvantages.

Out of topic bro.. this is nothing to do with any class ..

I am trying to say, do not have this attitude just because one thinks Bolehland is a rotten country to have a kid - is not a valid reason to not to have a baby.

This post has been edited by Pete the great: Feb 7 2019, 04:42 PM

I don't understand why ppl say not having child is selfish

No kids. Single parents already don't like dating other single parents LOL

Not having children is selfish because the person is/people are prioritizing themselves and what they want.

Having children is even MORE selfish because come on lah, tell me why you had the kid and you cannot use the phrase "I wanted", on top of the fact that having a child is pretty much one of the worst things you can do for the environment.

This post has been edited by spunkberry: Feb 8 2019, 02:35 AM

Why would this be a selfish decision? What's selfish are people who didn't do proper planning beforehand, be it financially or other aspects. Being responsible for a 'life' is not easy and it's not limited to money. I think we've had enough stories of children being abandoned, abused, neglected etc. The world will be a whole lot better off when people think twice before carrying a child. Thus if you're both not ready for this commitment, don't jump into it. It's common for the elderly to presume that married couples should carry on the family lineage through next generation thus they will not be happy with the decision.

Then again, it's your live and both of you will be the ones to go through the hardship of raising a child, not the elderly. So make the decision based on whether you're both ready to welcome a new life.

It's a matter of perspective like I've shared above. Elderly tend to judge as they wish the next generation to carry on the family lineage. This is very typical of Asian families regardless of race or nationality. Imo, improper planning that leads to suffering of the child (physical or emotional/ psychological) is worse. End of the day, people should make decision for "themselves".

-double income family
-kids throw to elders to take care
-parents either work or social with friends
-parents only see kids 2 hours a day (or a week!!)
-have the mindset that not having kids are selfish

topkek

no wonder kids these days perangai mcm haram jadah

glamorous outside, empty inside

This!

try adoption. orphanages alot of unwanted kids.

I might be wrong but I don't think our society is ready for that

Planned but eventually tried when the time was right financially, failed until now. Years. Now watching family with kids I can just shed inner tears and pray for the best.
So i think, don’t wait too long, kids buka pintu rezeki. Just plan if more than 1, within your means. But at least have your progeny and raise him/her well. They’ll make your life different being a parent. That’s the purpose of marriage.

Sometimes things just don't work out the way you planned.

It is actually ok to have the thought of no kids but people around are just too bzbody about whether you have kids right after you got married. Me and my hubby not fancy bout kids and we understand that having a kid carry heavy responsibility and we actually prefer to avoid the trouble to raise a kid.

We started off declare no-child plan since the day we got married. And ppl around us started to gossip guessing that I am barren (mandul). They started to say something like "don't want kids, then y got married?" And fyi, I got married because of some chinese tradition that his grandma pass away and within 100days we are married. And we fail to understand why "dun 1 child cannot get married".

Both parents keep pester us for grandchild, finally we got hit by accident baby. My parents were so worried that we will abort it and the 1st assurance they given me was "don't think too much, deliver the bb first. If $ is a problem, we will be there for you and this baby we will fully bbsit for you".
Another point is, don't know why "no-child" policy will end up ppl thought that you couldn't afford 1. That year, my parents keep asking if we have enough $ to survive, but the sad part is my in-law frequently telling us that they are broke. This case have proof to me that parents have generous and have selfish type too. So, if you have such "no-child" intention, never ever mention it.. it will make ppl judge you alot! I deliver in a reputable private hospital and my best friend even asked whether I borrow $ to pay for delivery fees. I really regret announcing no-child policy, ppl really thought we are broke.

My mom know that we are not ready for a bb at all, so throughout the first few years, she actually get hold of the baby for me. She encourage us to go on our romantic life and given us enough time to accept ourselves being a parents. Since no-child policy tak jadi, so now become 1-child policy and we are extra extra careful. Again relatives start pester again, asking us to get a companion for our single child.

But is a blessing that given us this accident baby. He came to us at our most difficult time, newly wed with nothing in savings, new house to pay, .. we survive based on our monthly income only.Hence, most of the pricier bill are on 12months instalment as we have salary but no savings . Anyway, am lucky that we were still young having baby at 29 (hubby 31) and able to reach stability and comfort level at much earlier age.

But now having single child, have another bigger issue. As having single child means this baby have more to enjoy, more benefit, etc. I need to let him understand why he have the luxury of annual overseas trip whereas his peers don't. Not because their family poor, is probably their family have more kids that the parents don't have enough hands to care for them during travel. He is 12 now, and being single grandchild, single nephew, he already foresee that he inherit all the properties (6 and increasing). My siblings all single. Hence, we need to let him understand that all this benefit come with "old folks caring package".

This post has been edited by cc980024: Feb 11 2019, 09:07 AM

Having 1 kid sometimes too cruel for the kid. Kesian.
I hv 2 cases on my point, a single child in family sometimes show early sign of depression on even early year of development. They often talk to imaginary friend, and show sign of psychosis.

at least 2 la.

1 kid only cruel if the kid have no exposure to outside. Kids nowadays go to childplay learning centre as early as 2yr+. They have friends to play with. And there are alot of active parents forum/group where parents bring their child (usually 1st child or single child) to get together and have fun.

What I see the lacking in single child probably fighting spirit. They don't fight for toys/snack or attention. Many are generous to offer, as they have plenty at home.. so they willing to share to outsiders.

But if parents wanted to have more than 1 kids, make sure have a well balance and fair treats to all kids. Frankly speaking, I have seen too many cases (even my own hubby's sibling) fighting for inheritance. Parents only see their children love each other (as siblings) but they will never know that their children have become enemies because of their parents. Some ppl thought giving more to the lack capable child is logic, as other siblings are more capable. Some ppl thought staying with parents, should inherit the house whereas other siblings should be out of the way, some even think that they should inherit more because they are the caretaker to the sick parents.. many many different perspective, no matter which 1 is never consider fair.. unless nothing to inherit, nothing to fight. I don't want my next generation have this problem. And don't tell me about family teaching, you won't know if the siblings will fight until that day come.

Old days, my grandma have 10 kids (7sons, 3 daughter). Daughter inherit RM1K each, sons get RM10K, all jewelry go to DIL. Nobody make noises. But do you think this still apply for current generation? Daughter want equal rights as son, the caretaker will start telling you that she/he contribute more during parent's still alive. Lately my colleague's FIL pass away, have 2 sons. The younger son taken all savings & house with the elder brother consent. But he go and announce to relative that they 50-50 share, the elder brother was so upset. As the relative say younger brother should get more as he stay with father (with the fact was he actually already get 100%). So the elder brother who already give up all the inheritance, yet being blame for not being generous to offer.

More kids = more mess. Hahahaha

Friends to play with. When in learning centre.
You see, friends and siblings are 2 different things. In early year yes, can bring to children learning centre, hv fun there and all.
But as the kid getting older, teenager maybe, he will get lonely as nobody that he/she can speak to.
Having a sibling teach the children to share, have empathy, patience and developed communication skills.

“The literature would suggest there is something about [only children] because they were lacking these important social relationships or learning these tasks early in life, meaning maybe they are more selfish or have difficulty with social interaction, sharing, or understanding social cues,” Milevsky said. (https://www.businessinsider.my/what-only-child-syndrome-really-is-2017-9/?r=US&IR=T)

I think 1 child policy can produce a brilliant but lack of empathy generation.

what you said is right, haha, sometimes people just bury the uneasiness feeling deep in their heart, and put on a mask, until certain events trigger them off

nowadays daughters will demand equal share from family inheritance liao, they won't settle for less

next time if you got another daughter, please treat and give her what she deserved, don't just give all the "meat" to your son and leave the "bones" to the daughter

you may need to leverage the power of those 6 properties when u re old, let the properties to take care of you, instead of placing burden on your only son. There's only limited things he can do; he can earn his own wealth outside, but no so when he need to worry and spend time and energy to take care of aging parents

This post has been edited by PhakFuhZai: Feb 11 2019, 11:34 AM

Maybe different family setup, different family culture may produce different sets of children.

We are 3 sisters in a family but we seldom share secrets with siblings as having the same parents means there is always chance that secret may leak out to parents. We play along when we were kids and the moment we step into teenage, we actually have more close friends. And when we grow up, all of us live apart. We will help each other as we are from the same blood, but we help our best friends too. The only thing that get us to sit down and discuss is when related to parents.

My hubby have 1 younger sis and 1 younger bro. They have bigger age gaps, so all of them actually dun mingle around with each other. Whenever we have any issue or worried over a certain sibling, we have to talk to his/her friend or spouse.

And actually I have many friends who actually not that close with siblings once become adult. Those elder 1 are being bothered by the younger siblings' attitude more than caring. And the younger siblings are being bothered by their elder siblings' spouse. So for me, siblings are seldom a best friend that can listen and share your joy and pain. This is life. No doubt, there are lovely siblings but not much in this era.

As for whatever the literature suggest, it may be true for older generation. But coming generation is totally new sets of brain. Who knows regardless of single or multiple child.. mode of survival kicks in, all are lack of empathy.
And children nowadays are attention seeker, I see kids fighting with siblings over stuff more than sharing it. Whereas single child's problem is they don't even bother to fight, as they have all they want. Most I heard from my son and his friends "you want, I give you.. I got plenty at home".
There are quite a number of single child in school. My son didn't bring $ to school and there were time where he forget his pencil case, but came home with full sets of stationary. He got friends offer to buy him stuff in school. And there were time he request a few more homemake sushi as his friends was excited to see him having it. He also brought home cakes from his friends. Doesn't this a practice of sharing as well? Parents make a big role in guiding kids, I bought cake and told him to pass to his best friend's mom, which end up he got a few not only 1 best friends .. sigh boys. We don't need extra children just to teach them how to be generous and share. Small family doesn't mean you can't provide a ground for the kids to learn social interaction and be generous, single child are meant to face outside and love the ppl around them, not limited to the number of members in the family only. Parents who have single child are well aware of this and hence they will always remind their child what is sharing and practice it with friends, not like the typical parents telling the kids "love your brother sister as they are your siblings", and start to induce "leveling status" in the child's mind.. frens is not buddy.. only siblings is buddy.

I won't.. die die must be single child. Seen too much of inheritance related issue. Rich and not so rich, as long as have a bit of money or a house.. there is issue. Unless poor poor poor.. but if too poor, nobody wanna pay for your well-being, then how?

Other than own experience with hubby's family, I already can smell my own family side having same situation where my parents intend to give the house to my younger sis as she is lack capable, but my elder sis who are very rich wanna fight for fairness. I keep quiet coz no matter what, end up this bricks will go to my son's hand being single in his generation.

I also seen siblings fighting for inheritance from single (not married) sibling. And also cases where some found out that parents have joint account with a sibling, and start fighting too.

This make me feel, maintaining a simple and small family is better. Coz all the inheritance issue that I seen is not what we thought only the rich have issue. They are all common family like mayb a few hundred thousand cash and a house.

Just make sure you have a will and that all beneficiaries are informed of the will.

Make a clause that if any beneficiaries try to challenge the will, they will automatically forfeit their share if the court rules against them.

This is not about the will. Is about if the children not happy about the shares, with or without will.. the siblings relationship and the love they share when their parents still around will no longer be there. Especially there will be doubt how the will being draft, with one suspecting another for "brainwashing" the parents. Hahahaha.. It is heartbreaking seeing siblings end up cursing each other for cheats. Might as well live single.

Thanks for sharing

Having friends to play with and having siblings is entirely different level... There are a lot of things that siblings can help but friends can't. Especially on the whole "experience" of growing up.

Lack of fighting spirit? I beg to differ, single child are usually spoilt with nearly everything, they can have all the toys/snack or attention that they wanted, no need to fight with other people at all. So when there's hardships in the future in life, single child usually are more aggressive as they are used to having everything they wanted by themselves and no need for sharing. I for one, would say that children with siblings are much more generous to share with others, as they are already used to sharing with their siblings in the first place.

And of course, that's just both of our opinions, you and I. I believe the opinions we had are coming from our own personal experiences in life, and there's no right and wrong to it. Just different roads of life.

=====================================

In terms of inheritance and everything else, I would say it was how the children was grown...

I have seen far too many families breaking up because of "inheritance", but yet, I have also seen some families that do actually care for each other, even to the level of distance relatives.

I believe it all ends up on how the child grows up. Children is like a sponge, they will grow up and absorb stuffs from their family first, then their friends, people who are closed to them and lastly, media (TV, Social Network, Internet, etc).

There's no right or wrong answer towards to having no child, having only a single child or even having a bunch of them. Most importantly is that you know what you are doing. There's pros and cons towards to everything.

But the general rules would be...

If no money cannot support family, better don't have children. I hate it when TV3 shows up some Families having 8-9 kids then asking the public for donation... No money then don't hamsap so much lah knnbccb... Buy condom is cheaper than diapers!

Having a single child is easy for the parents, but a huge burden for the child. I myself is a single child and I am giving my parents RM2k per month. If I am not the one who does it, who will do it? Some might say - Aiya, then ask your parents to use their own savings lahh... That's true, but being a good son that I am, I don't mind giving RM2k per month. Also, that is because I am capable... What if, just.... What if, your future child is not that capable and only can give parents RM1k or even less? How the parents survive with that little money IF the parents have not much savings in the first place? Pokai loh like that...

Having 2-3 children however, will not burden the single child so much, as multiple siblings can help chip in a little bit of their salary for their parents. You might say, later your child char siew don't want to give you money... Then that is your problem in the first place, of not being a good parent and teaching them well.

This post has been edited by RubMyGenie_: Feb 11 2019, 06:01 PM

Its really a personal choice. But its always best to have them when you ready.
Having 2 kids would be great if you can afford and give them love.
Reasons simply because of loneliness and siblings bond is something really special.
Besides, the burden on a single child is heavy.

I see why both of us have different thoughts as we are from 2 extreme different background.

You think that children with siblings are more willing to share. Let me tell you, there is a sentence "I had enough, why always me to give way?" People may think few kids grow up together can train them sharing, but don't forget when resources are limited and everything have to be share, it may indirectly making someone to keep stuff away from sharing. Yes, the positive side is they will learn to treasure whatever they have as it did not come easy.. not only by the mean of share that limited the stuff that they can get, it also means you have to fight and get it.

Another point is having single child means he/she will have to carry the full responsibility to care for parents. But that doesn't mean family with many kids will share the burden too. I have friends who not only have to finance his parents, he have to pay for both his 2 siblings education fees and got so sick bout how his mom pampered them using his hard earn money. When you are the provider of the family, with siblings who don't bother to share or worst.. become your burden on top of your parents, you will wish that your life to be much easy without them. And if you are someone who want ppl to share your load and thought having siblings can help, then of coz want siblings. But again, it is based on luck what kind of siblings you get. If referring to family teaching that produce what kind of children, I will say every family will think they have their best way to teach but it never guarantee that we are able to teach our kids to become a good adult, at least none of us reach that stage yet now.

For our generation, we are aware of the heavy expenses to carry a child. And parents nowadays will invest just to provide the ground for the kids to explore his/her potential. And we have so much more expenses (to maintain the new family) than our parents' generation, yet we also taking care of our parents' daily expenses. Personally, I don't want to become a financial burden to my children. So, before one decide to have kids, it is fair to relook at your own capability. Not only be able to finance a child/children, you have to also make sure you can retire with a comfortable amount of $, not to let children education exhaust your retirement fund. As once you use your retirement fund on the kids, expecting them to bring home $, this is actually making children repeating all the pain that you have gone thru, not forgetting their pain is double as future elderly needs more $ than past generation. (ie: our grandparents only need 3 meals a day and stay home help to care grandchildren, now our parents need insurance, car petrol, astro, and by luck if they stay with you to help with your kids otherwise you need to fork out extras for bbsitting, who knows future what we need if we expect our kids to carry us as burden )

I guess most of the readers of this thread will have a deep look onto the experience of two different individuals with extreme different backgrounds. As I said before, there's no right or wrong answer to it, it's just shows how different our experience are with different backgrounds.

As for the debate of raising a child, I would say that in the near future, maybe 2025 - 2030, we would see many more char siew(s) (Those that born after 2010 or 2015). I see that nowadays parents are getting lazier when it comes to spending time with their children. They just throw in an iPad or a mobile phone to their kids as young as f*cking toddlers.

With so much flashy things and interesting things on the phone, kids will get hooked onto their phones and can easily get ADHD. Then one thing leads to another, it would lead to being socially awkward, then complain about no girlfriend, then say themselves very depressed and then threaten to kill themselves.

Just like multiple users that open thread in serious /k/ and here in Cupid Corner. Small Small thing want to die here die there. No P*ssy no need die one.

If you ask me if I want siblings in another life, I would still say yes despite having imperfect siblings. Reason is, family is thicker than blood and no friend can replace that. Yes, your son can play with friends outside but when they come home,
feel lonely as f**k. Sure, friends are close but when it comes to money? Hahaha... All real faces come out. Do they need to help you? Nope, they are not your so and so.

Sure, parenting does not guarantee a nearly perfect child. But it is a strong foundation nontheless. The example that you gave is a good example of parents biasness. Of course the older sibling will feel sad when the mother is spoiling the younger ones. If the parent treats the children with fairness, many issues can be avoided.

I've seen many single child being a spoilt brat. Many parents substituting the emptiness of sibling with an Ipad. No one to play with and parents busy. So play ipad. Reason of spoiled single kid? Having everything handed to him without working hard. And having the "everything will be inherited to me" mentality. In the end? Doing nothing and shake legs. Of course, this is mainly poor parenting by the parents. My friend's friend has a family manufacturing business but he doesn't work at all. Everyday play games and buy sexy figurines. Parents too sayang him and pampered him. Another friend of mine only start working in late 20s. My cousin? Doing non profitable works when his parents aren't well off. He said got free travel and can learn many things. But how can you sustain your lifestyle having almost nil income?

And you can never reveal everything in your family closet to a friend. We will feel paiseh, ashame. Friends can only help to a certain degree.

And being the single kid, he has no direct role model of a older kid nor having the responsibility to take care of a younger sibling. So no role model they go out to find friends as role model. And many times parents won't know what kind of people their kids mix around until it's too late.

This post has been edited by fearless_kiki: Feb 12 2019, 12:45 PM

Having single child doesn't mean one will spoil their child. It depends on parenting.
That said, having kid or no kid is really a personal choice.
How to respond to others on no kid choice?.. "Its me and my spouse's decision" and just smile and change topic. If they keep pestering, then just smile and don't say anything.

There is no end to the no kid or number of kids questions from relatives, family, friends and even strangers..
No kid - Why no kid?
1 kid - Why 1 kid?
2 kid - Why stop at 2?
3 kid - Why stop at 3? Make it balanced mar
4 kid - Likely no more questions. But unless you are well off and have the mental zen of a buddhist monk and lots of help, unlike you will survive mentally and financially.

Even ipad come into picture.

Frankly speaking, nowadays I saw many family holding h/p at dining table. And the kids are all wearing specs. And those are not single child family, in fact any family regardless single or more kids. Gadget have nothing to do with single or more child.. it is the parents who fail to understand how precious that small pair of eyes, how it impact their attentiveness and attention and how it affect the bonding between parents and child.

No matter be it single or many kids, there is no general rules which 1 is better. It all depends on the parents, the family practices, and the children unique personality. If 1 is not using the right method on the right child, he can spoilt 1 single child, also can spoilt a bunch of children.

My colleague was a scholar and a good daughter taking care of her parents and also the main sponsor to help her useless brother. She marry to a family (PIL were retired teachers, hubby an engineer). But she have a pair of kids and she keep asking us to analyse whats gone wrong that her kids seems naughty. From start, her elder daughter are very nice and obedient and everything easy to care for.. but after 7yrs gap, have a younger son, everything change. She now having trouble as her 3yr old son screaming for h/p and her 11yrs old daughter who used to be obedient, but now started to ignore her instruction and watch Youtube uncontrollable.

What I try to highlight is, you maybe good man, good ladies, and good family teaching behind you. But when it comes to next generation, things can be so different. I am not there to tell my friend that she should tackle her children this way or that way, since I am not at her situation.

There was once I got so fedup being ask for 2nd kid by my inlaw. Then my hubby straightaway told them "if you pay for all the 2nd child expenses, we will give you 2nd bb". This.. immediately shut them up forever.

smart person doesn't make one a good teacher.

All of this is down to how parents discipline the kids. I'm glad to know there are still people that educate their children in a fairly good manner. Having kids that are not addicted to devices. My friend who is a lecturer raises his kids 12, 10 and 8 years old kids very well. Although the kids are exposed to Ipads in this era, (they use Ipads in International schools) the children are not addicted to those devices at all. In the countless times I went out with the family, only see them playing Ipad once. They never ask Ipads at all. Give them a ball or books they will be happy. Last year I babysitted the kids when the parents went to a wedding dinner, the kids watch tv until a certain time, then read book before heading ro bed. I told my bf, wow... i wanna raise my kids like them.

people in this thread are making too many terrible assumptions

first terrible assumption
1) spend more money-->better kids
2) have less kids --> better quality
3) spend more on education-->become good people

soooo many terrible assumptions here.

im one kid of 13, and ALL of us became good people who are contributing to society now

to me, only two things

1) parents having sufficient resources
2) parents having the drive to improve
3) parents who care about kids


This post has been edited by Nachiino Etamay: Feb 17 2019, 09:01 PM

so.. did you end up have kids?

it is 2024 now.

So what have you decided after 5 years?

hey i remember you.

weren't you the one who went all out for office kolik who love watching k drama?

what is the reason you all want to bring the children to this world?

pretty sure for selfish reasons

Yeah. The way I see it, having kids is a consequence. Sex is the goal, baby is the consequence (which can be prevented easily these days).

But others don't see it this way. For some reason that is beyond me, baby is the goal.

This post has been edited by RocketPiki: Oct 29 2024, 07:48 PM

Tough question, there will be the same question about having children or not having children coming up on and off over time. Today I got some spare time, hence we do a little bit more details analysis. Disregard 0 or 1 children at the moment.

List of the reasons not to have the children. Let's go into the mind”s of current generation using the thinking of Sun Tzu " to know you enemy, you must become your enemy".

1) Parent cheated on each another / divorced, the current generation become the victim to the broken family. The matured generation now no longer believe in marriage & having children. Who has the control on this issue? - it was under the previous generation, not the fault of present generation. God become the victim because all the bad things happened but God didn't do anything, whereas the evil-doer was actually the previous generation.

2) Parent "char siew", made mountain of debts & expect their children to clear their debts. The current generation efforts are wasted to pay the mistakes made by previous generation. The matured generation now no longer believe in marriage & having children. Who has the control on this issue? - it was under the previous generation, not the fault of present generation. God become the victim because all the bad things happened but God didn't do anything, whereas the evil-doer was actually the previous generation.

3) Parent lack of wisdom, they bring their children to this world but do not prepare them well for their purpose. Having sexual relationship to satisfy their animal instinct & do not use any contraception. The current generation are not raised to face the world with purpose but become the cannon fodder at the lowest grade realm of society. After experiencing the harsh lowest realm of the society & believe that life is all about suffering, do you think this grown up generation dare to have children? Who has the control on this issue ? - it was under the previous generation, not the fault of present generation. God become the victim because all the bad things happened but God didn't do anything, whereas the evil-doer was actually the previous generation.

4) Troublesome siblings. As the eldest / elder sibling/ high performer sibling, that particular sibling need to cover the life mistakes made by the other siblings (gambling, debts, etc.). Some to the extent that they need to give up their personal ambition & made the scarifies for their younger siblings. Partially related to point 3), if the parent perform their part well, perhaps it can be avoided. Who has the control on this issue ? - it was under the previous generation, not the fault of present generation. God become the victim because all the bad things happened but God didn't do anything, whereas the evil-doer was actually the previous generation.

5). Children born with disabilities like autism, down syndrome, etc cases from the people of surrounding has caused the fear of lifetime burden. Who has the control on this issue ? - it was under the 50% previous generation( genetic), 50% (choice - early detection abortion, early marriage/parenthood) present generation. The decision of early marriage is indirectly link to the preparation by previous generation (*).

6). Fear on commitment in term of time & financial. Majority current generation feel that they already struggling. Need to take care their SO, burdened with study loan, aging parent,
living a hectic life :-

Morning time going to work, the sun yet to rise,
Night time coming home from work, the sun already set,
The life seems forever hiding in the darkness,
Missing dearly the warm light from the sun.

Do current generation still dare to think about raising a new generation?- no. Who has the control on this issue ? - it was partially under the previous generation, not 100% the fault of present generation. The decision to marry late, have their children late by previous generation make the scenario even worse. The hardness of life in your linage did not disappear but it will only being push forward from your generation to your next generation(back loading). Your generation bersenang-senang dahulu, your coming generation will need to bersusah-susah kemudian. Some for the fear of the financial burden drag-drag until the biological constraint comes into picture.

7).A lot of current generation growing up without going through the "transition period", hence they doubt & fear whether they will like to have children or know how to take care of the children. It is the nature of human to fear what they do not know. What is the "transition period"? "Transition period" to me is the period when the generation is growing up, they are exposed to the activities of taking care of their younger cousins. When the family size was bigger in the past, there was tendency for the growing up children, when they reach their teenager or adolescent age will witness the child birth from their youngest uncle's or aunt's family or eldest sibling's. The exposure they have in this "transition period" will prepare them to become future father or mother figure. Sadly, as the size of the family is shrinking ( decision by previous generation based on reasons above), this window of opportunity for the growing up children to expose themselves to this "transition period" disappears on its own. The current generation growing not prepared to have children - it is the nature of human to fear what they do not know.

How significant is this "transition period" exposure ? Try to enroll your children from kindergarten primary school without introduction week - see if they will get the shock. Try to enroll your children from primary school to secondary school without orientation week, see if they will get the shock. Try to enroll your children from secondary school to college/university without any orientation week, see if they will get a shock.

So boy & girl, you want to know if your partner love children or not ? See if your partner are expose to the "transition period". They like the "transition period", very likely your marriage is going to have children.

Kidlin's law states, "If you write the problem down clearly, then the matter is half solved.". We discuss about the way forward next week after seeing participants inputs. Please be forewarn, my opinion will have the elements religion I believe in.

This post has been edited by nihility: Nov 5 2024, 11:49 AM

Different individual, different way to find their purpose. My way of finding my purpose , What I need to do? Why am I arriving to this world ? Where do I start ? How to serve the purpose ?

So, where to start? No point pondering too much because we are not given any map or operation manual but a brain, a pair of hand, a pair of leg & a body. This is the most fundamental necessity given to accomplish an individual mission/purpose. Since hands, legs & body adhere to mind/ thinking, it all started from the way of thinking (logic).

Think. If creator is great, his plan is indestructible , cannot be sabotaged, will not be put to halt regardless how each individual journey their life ( good or bad ending). Looks for the signs & patterns that is everlasting & enduring over times (years, decades, centuries, millenniums) . Immerse yourself deep into time using "back ward" thinking. Days after days, months after months, years after years, decades after decade, centuries after centuries, millenniums after millenniums, what are still same & what are not the same ?

Thing still remain the same:-

1) People still get married, have sex, reproduce. Marriage still results in happiness, unhappiness.
2) People still eat, still shit, still breathe to waste the oxygen of the world like the present day.
3) People still sleep, go to work & go to sleep again.
4) People still move around from 1 point to another point

But

1) There is changes in the way of living. Living in the cave →scattered at the open fields → group in village → town → city / modern urban city.
2) There is changes to the way of getting their foods. Food hunting → Rearing own farm animals → industrialize modern livestock farming
3) There is changes to the quality of the foods they are eating.
4) There is changes to the way ppl shiting…..but it is getting more & more hygienic & sanitary
5) There is changes to the way ppl travel. Walk using legs →riding animals → chariot (invention of wheel) → human operated bicycles → fossil fuel
powered vehicles (land - automobiles), etc

The changes shows progression. Thing is undergoing changes to become better & better over time & this is known as "refinement". Hence , by this observation alone, the refinement is the purpose of life. We are part of the world refinement process.

Refinement at the macro level involves the changes society in term of socio-politic, economy , culture , infrastructure , religion, etc.

Refinement at the individual level involves your own progression to utilize the biological lifespan given (finite) to be the best of yourself individually. The individual progression will indirectly contributes back to the macro level of progression of the world.

This post emphasis on the importance of establishing the purpose of life. The purpose of life will answers to the purpose having children or no children in the coming post.

This post has been edited by nihility: Nov 9 2024, 11:23 AM

Super rich can go for 3 kid. Hire maid pls

Didnt plan to have kid, why married please!?

This is true, with one small caveat. "better" doesn't really exist, as "better" is bounded by context of the environment of its time. Violent character is detrimental during peaceful times, but very useful during times of war/strife.

We die so that our ideas/information can be revitalised/tested to the new environment. That's also why we have children, so that they inherit the best of our ideas, challenge it, and adjust it for the environment of its time.

So like you say, if you don't understand your purpose in life, the role you play and your place in the grand scheme of things, you'll never know what to do; forever guided by instinct

You is one the few here that I admire secretly for being able to bring forward some unique thought. Personally, I want inquire this from you if you don't mind? At what age you come to "realization" ? Did you experience any major life crisis ?

We do something more complex the next post.

TTC : Chapter Fifty
Men enter this world with life and leave this world with death.

***
TTC : Chapter Thirty
"When things reach their prime, they start to age and decline.
This is the life that is diminishing and shall not reach the ultimate essence.

1) Knowing that we serve the purpose to this world & the "progression" is still a long way to go ( need more than 1 life cycle).
2) Knowing that this biological lifespan is finite. We can only live 70 ~ 80 y.o in our generation, there is only so much we can achieved.
3) Knowing that the knowledge & wisdom we attained throughout the mistake our lifetimes need to be preserved.
4) Bringing forward a new generation(children) & preparing them to take over the "purpose" is a way to go.

The above is my personal answer to bring children or not if you aware of the purpose. If you is not aware of the purpose, you still can bring children to this world but you are bringing them to this world probably due to your own selfish desires ( this part very subjective because there are quite a few who I know only came to notice their purpose of life after mid 30s)

***

Next one, if we bring the children to this world, then how many? 1 or more?

We start with 1 children scenario. Using some forward thinking. Imagine yourself as this single children raised by a family.

20 years from now
This child will grow up into young adult,
He/she may have everything because the family resources is concentrated on them,
He/she may not experience early life hardship/ obstacles to horn their characters - tendency to be pampered by parent

30 years from now
This child may be reaching suitable time for marriage & starting their family.
The age of the parent for this child - assume they got this children at 30 y.o ,
30 years later, the parent will be at 60 y.o.
The single child at the same time pondering
Our parent father mother +FIL & MIL= 4 ppl, should we consider to have children ?

40 years from now
The parent age > 70 y.o may be entering a deteriorated health stage due to aging,
If the single child(2nd generation) decided to have their children(3rd generation) 10 years ago, the 3rd generation will be around 10 y.o
It is a scenario where the 1st generation & 3rd generation will need the resources & time soon.
1st generation x 4 individual + 3rd generation….
The responsibility is so intense & will scare them of to have children of 4th generation.
This lineage will end as the last generation at the 3rd generation (very likely).
If it ended at 3rd generation, why bother to bring the children of 2nd generation? Just to fulfil the selfish purpose of 1st generation that the 1st generation have raise a generation( single child)- easy peasy task ?.

1 children option, their coming generation will ended with "dead road" but it is when you are no longer around in this world.

***

How I think a new generation( quantity + quality) should be raised. Every day we are busy to talk about the criteria of a life partner, why not talk about the children's expectation on their family & parent.

Let's go into the mind of coming generation using the thinking of Sun Tzu " to know you enemy, you must become your enemy", another round. As the observer from the children's point of view.

1) Te (Virtue) & loving family - I want to be born into a virtue & loving family. The parent are rightful & lead life by examples. I don't have to be bothered by unnecessary parent conflict as thing have been taken care at their generation. Which generation has the control on this issue? - it is under the current generation ( adult of present day) + previous generation ( grandparent).

2) Financially literate & responsible family - I want to be born in a family which financially literate & responsible, they need not to be wealthy or rich. As long as they do not ask me to inherit the burden of previous generation ( reckless debt from gambling) & provide me "just nice" resources to grow. Who has the control on this issue? - it is under the current generation ( adult of present day) + previous generation ( grandparent).

3) Wise family - I want to be born into a wise family. The parent is able to well prepare me for my life purpose. The elder/grandparent of the family is able to guide me on the wisdom of life. Before I reaches adulthood, I would like to reach awakening & understand majority of the cause & effect of life, leading the most purposeful life with the least time wastage. The parent & elders will not interfere with my decision making but will point out each of the cause & effect after I have made the decision, they will not scold or judge instead let me understand the possibility of better way to do thing to hone my decision making & shape my characters. Who has the control on this issue ? - it is under the current generation ( adult of present day) + previous generation ( grandparent).

4) A team of strong, healthy & intellectual siblings. I want someone from the same generation to talk & discuss. If possible , the age gap should not be too far because only the same phase of will understand the inner struggle I'm going through. Having a beautiful & intellectual elder/younger sister who can be your sparring partner or partner in crime is cool. Having a handsome & intellectual elder/younger brother who can become your tag team / side kick to kick ass & "fight" is cool. Having a mini army of siblings ( 2 pax,4 pax, 6 pax, etc - always in pair) , where each of the sibling has their own unique ability to strengthen the mini army of sibling is cool - we (siblings) can conquer our generation world together, shoulder to shoulder and strength to strength. Who has the control on this issue ? - it is under the current generation ( adult of present day) + previous generation ( grandparent).

5). A healthy physical and mental ( free from any deformation) . I want to be born with a healthy physical and mental. If there deformation detected during early pregnancy, please don't bring me further to this world. I wish my parent to marry early & have us (siblings) < their 30 y.o so that the risk of deformation is greatly reduced. Who has the control on this issue ? -it is under the current generation ( adult of present day) + previous generation ( grandparent).

6). 20 ~ 24 years later from now , I may fall in love with someone daughter /son. If I rely on my own effort to save/earn money for the marriage, very likely I'll delay my marriage plan until mid-30s. My sweetheart may be frustrated & wasted her prime age just to wait. How I wish my parent will understand & will tell me " our generation got you covered, your previous generation path their way for my generation, now it is our generation turn to path way for your generation. Go & get marry as we have financially prepare you for this day, make sure you selflessly path the same way for your coming generation like the past generation. Go & get start your family around at late 20s so that, when you got married, your parent & in laws are still strong & young at their late 50s. We still can contribute to your younger generation". Who has the control on this issue ? -it is under the current generation ( adult of present day) + previous generation ( grandparent).

***

As absurd as it may sound the above, using the above future children's wish list, we eliminate all the possible obstacles not in the children control like how we manage our works related obstacles. Here is how the current generation parent need to prepare themselves :-

1) Te (Virtue) Loving family - Current generation need to be virtue & loving family. The parent are rightful & lead life by examples. The current generation must not bother the coming generation with unnecessary parent conflict. Give them a loving & wholesome family.

2) Financially literate & responsible family - Current generation must be financially literate & responsible. Do not treats your children as an investment to inherits your burden or as a retirement plan. The children should have their own dream to chase & not to inherits the burden of the previous generation. Prepare them with the "sufficient" resources to educate them until tertiary education.

3) Wise family - Current generation must find your life purpose. If current generation are directionless, you future generation will be raised at the lowest realm environment where the conditions are ruled by the animal instinct.

4) A team of strong, healthy & intellectual siblings. Raised minimum a pair (2 pax). If fate is on your side, raise 4 or 6 pax so that your future generation will be a mini team / army that can conquer their generation. If fate is not on your side, thing will be made very harsh to get more children. If fate is on your side, your newborn will be easy to raise & bring fortune to the family. It will makes you not to hesitate to get one after another. For those who are already capable but trying to run away by doing lesser, my prayer to Heaven so that ppl like you will be blessed with quadruplets or sextuplets in one go, so that you cannot run away.

5). A healthy physical and mental ( free from any deformation). The current generation need to marry early before 30s with condition, the previous generation is well prepared / foresee that this life obstacle is hard to be faced by a single generation. Yes, the public will talk & say what a useless generation to rely on family to build their family. The public's opinion is more important or protecting your lineage continuity more important? Public comment so that they can boast about the future generation getting married without the past generation help. Yes - they gained the boasting point but at the expense of their future generation getting marry late , starting family late, risking the end path of their lineage at their grandchildren just in exchange for the "boasting ego". Ask yourself is this "ego" flexing worth it or continuity of your lineage quality to continue to serve the purpose more important?

6). 20 ~ 24 years later from now, the current generation need to path way for their future generation. You need to prepare the item 5) & be ready to assume role of elder to pass your life wisdom to your grandchildren. Become a young & reliable, parent, parent-in-law & grandparent.

Below are the quotes extracted from TTC :-

Tao gives birth to life and yet claims no possession.
It gives support without holding on to the merit.
It matures them but does not take control of.
This is called the Mystic Te(Virtue).

A saint acts without holding on to the achievements.
He accomplishes but does not claim for credit.
He has no desire to distinguish himself.

He who acts with desire shall fail.
He who tries to possess shall lose.

The great Tao is ever present.
It can adjust Itself to everything.
All things live by It, and It does not deny them.
When Its work is accomplished, It does not claim possession.

To the parent who understand. This should be how a new generation should be raised, so that they do not fear to build their own family & path way to their future generation.
"It takes a village to raise a child" has its truth. You need the effort of 3 generations. This is something missing in the current society. The highest form of love is the ability to dispense it without expecting it in return. So parent, what is the meaning of "love" you have toward your children?

20~30 years down the road, we shall revisit this & see who is able to raise a strong generation.

This post has been edited by nihility: Nov 17 2024, 06:13 PM

Maslow's hierarchy is a useful tool to get a discussion started. However there has been no evidence that it is true, and depending on what you've read on it; its also often misrepresented.

For instance, the pyramid depiction is not what he envisioned. Following from that, the "levels" don't have to be completed to reach the next level. Its entirely possible for you to be self-actualised without having your basic/psychological needs met 100%.

Realization of what? If you're talking about realization of my place in the world, that happened around 16-17 years old. Happened during a meditation session. Words cannot illustrate what I saw, but I realised I was both significant and insignificant at the same time. It gave me a deeper understanding of the freedom of choice.

I've faced a few life crisis, it didn't trigger any other realization, just knowing my place kept me steady despite the hardships. Granted I've not always walked the straight and narrow path; and have strayed and wandered from time to time, but always come back.

Well, life crisis will force you to throw away a lot of the unnecessary things in life for your survival, and focus on the important things. Despite what we think, we actually live quite comfortably in this modern age.

Just be brutally honest with yourself, an answer will come.

Lets leave this personal question to rest for now ...