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 The Fish Bowl replied regarding mistreatment staff

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bumpo
post Jan 23 2019, 02:41 PM

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QUOTE(Imdarren @ Jan 23 2019, 02:20 PM)
What is not so simple. Let's just say ur right, for whatever stupid reason the law requires you to withhold salary against someone who committed a crime. But rather than reporting the crime to police, you hire a lawyer. So how is the lawyer supposed to solve the situation so that the staff is able to reclaim his rightful salary (post-deduction of costs). How much sense does that make  doh.gif

The Company then claim that they can't disburse his salary cause have to account for the lawyer fees. But, what was the point of the lawyer in the first place? It is clear they never wanted to amicably solve the issue, but rather to threaten the staff into submission.

Get my point?
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what if your other staff found that their belonging lost at a later time?
what if there were other damages that was done but not reported? e.g. window is damaged so it doesnt lock anymore.
what if the other damages done went unnoticed and later cause another incident? e.g. break in due to window doesnt lock

dont forget it is company hostel. company is responsible for it. something goes wrong and ppl can go after the company and hold it liable
as a company what do you do to protect yourself? how to ensure this incident is handled correctly so that there is no loose ends to bite you back?

still you see no importance of engaging lawyer services out side of normal business activities?
if you genuinely answer that no lawyer services is needed then you have not interacted much with ppl sweat.gif
spacelion
post Jan 23 2019, 02:45 PM

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QUOTE(Imdarren @ Jan 23 2019, 02:20 PM)
What is not so simple. Let's just say ur right, for whatever stupid reason the law requires you to withhold salary against someone who committed a crime. But rather than reporting the crime to police, you hire a lawyer. So how is the lawyer supposed to solve the situation so that the staff is able to reclaim his rightful salary (post-deduction of costs). How much sense does that make  doh.gif

The Company then claim that they can't disburse his salary cause have to account for the lawyer fees. But, what was the point of the lawyer in the first place? It is clear they never wanted to amicably solve the issue, but rather to threaten the staff into submission.

Get my point?
*
the lawyer is because of the sohai who never learn manners from his parents and then break into the hostel.
Imdarren
post Jan 23 2019, 02:59 PM

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QUOTE(bumpo @ Jan 23 2019, 02:41 PM)
what if your other staff found that their belonging lost at a later time?
what if there were other damages that was done but not reported? e.g. window is damaged so it doesnt lock anymore.
what if the other damages done went unnoticed and later cause another incident? e.g. break in due to window doesnt lock

dont forget it is company hostel. company is responsible for it. something goes wrong and ppl can go after the company and hold it liable
as a company what do you do to protect yourself? how to ensure this incident is handled correctly so that there is no loose ends to bite you back?

still you see no importance of engaging lawyer services out side of normal business activities?
if you genuinely answer that no lawyer services is needed then you have not interacted much with ppl  sweat.gif
*
Hello friend, when belongings are lost, your first thought is to call a lawyer? If someone burglarize your home you call a lawyer? rclxms.gif

If there is damage to the property besides what was confessed by the staff, THEN you hire a lawyer to press civil charges. How hard is it to ascertain damage to your house? And the Company has not implied that they inspected the house post-break in.

Yes company is responsible that's why it is up to the POLICE to ascertain the sequence of events and charge him in the court of law as a prosecutor. There is a difference between civil vs criminal law bro.

Still you don't see the importance that a criminal case should be handled by the POLICE and not a private lawyer. shakehead.gif

bumpo
post Jan 23 2019, 03:15 PM

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QUOTE(Imdarren @ Jan 23 2019, 02:59 PM)
Hello friend, when belongings are lost, your first thought is to call a lawyer? If someone burglarize your home you call a lawyer?  rclxms.gif

If there is damage to the property besides what was confessed by the staff, THEN you hire a lawyer to press civil charges. How hard is it to ascertain damage to your house? And the Company has not implied that they inspected the house post-break in.

Yes company is responsible that's why it is up to the POLICE to ascertain the sequence of events and charge him in the court of law as a prosecutor. There is a difference between civil vs criminal law bro.

Still you don't see the importance that a criminal case should be handled by the POLICE and not a private lawyer.  shakehead.gif
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first you say buat apa withheld final salary. just deduct the damage for the lock and call it a day. simple as that.
now when pointed out that it is not "simple as that" as the situation essentially is a burglary and a security breach and there could be other hidden complications you still ask why lawyer first?
if you are the company how do you get answers to questions like could this be settled internally? does it still qualify to settle internally since is ex-staff? is police report required? insurance claims? how to ensure due diligence is done?
simple, you talk to your lawyer first

are you done being dense? shakehead.gif
Imdarren
post Jan 23 2019, 03:30 PM

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QUOTE(bumpo @ Jan 23 2019, 03:15 PM)
first you say buat apa withheld final salary. just deduct the damage for the lock and call it a day. simple as that.
now when pointed out that it is not "simple as that" as the situation essentially is a burglary and a security breach and there could be other hidden complications you still ask why lawyer first?
if you are the company how do you get answers to questions like could this be settled internally? does it still qualify to settle internally since is ex-staff? is police report required? insurance claims? how to ensure due diligence is done?
simple, you talk to your lawyer first

are you done being dense?  shakehead.gif
*
Dude i'm saying if the Company had the intention to solve the issue amicably they could just deduct his salary for the broken lock. And since the Company keep harping that security is an issue, logically the FIRST thing you do is to make a freaking police report for criminal tress pass. Thereafter, If they inspected the house and find that there is indeed damage or whatever nonsense cause by him, then get a civil lawyer. Both of which have not been done (make police report, inspect the house).

What sort of hidden complications. Name some la, stop your stupid abstract nonsense and give examples.

I'm saying that the Company never had the intention to absolve the Staff and rather want to immediately threaten him with a lawyer. This is a flex of power on the part of the Company. This is clear when they engage a lawyer BEFORE making a police report. You keep insinuating that there are some stupid hidden complications, that he could have done this and that, on top of breaking the lock. What happened to innocent until proven guilty, the poor bloke already confessed to breaking the lock. So let the police handle the tress pass. This is a prime example on the arrogance of the Company. I'm not defending the actions of the staff. I'm calling out the actions of the Company.

Which part do you not understand?

This post has been edited by Imdarren: Jan 23 2019, 03:36 PM
bumpo
post Jan 23 2019, 03:54 PM

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QUOTE(Imdarren @ Jan 23 2019, 03:30 PM)
Dude i'm saying if the Company had the intention to solve the issue amicably they could just deduct his salary for the broken lock. And since the Company keep harping that security is an issue, logically the FIRST thing you do is to make a freaking police report for criminal tress pass. Thereafter, If they inspected the house and find that there is indeed damage or whatever nonsense cause by him, then get a civil lawyer. Both of which have not been done (make police report, inspect the house).

What sort of hidden complications. Name some la, stop your stupid abstract nonsense and give examples.

I'm saying that the Company never had the intention to absolve the Staff and rather want to immediately threaten him with a lawyer. This is a flex of power on the part of the Company. This is clear when they engage a lawyer BEFORE making a police report. You keep insinuating that there are some stupid hidden complications, that he could have done this and that, on top of breaking the lock. What happened to innocent until proven guilty, the poor bloke already confessed to breaking the lock. So let the police handle the tress pass. This is a prime example on the arrogance of the Company. I'm not defending the actions of the staff. I'm calling out the actions of the Company.

Which part do you not understand?
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what sort of hidden complications? didnt i just threw a few in your face earlier. go read back previous posts.
protect yourself from liability. especially as a business, you need to know this well.

logically first thing business would do is talk to lawyer. you talk to lawyer first to see if it can be settled amicably. if lawyer say kennot coz reason xyz and next course is go police report, then so be it.
why you so triggered that it wasn't police first? also why you prejudice that talk to lawyer first means is to intimidate and bully the guy from get go?

as for last pay cheque, it is normal practice to hold it until exit is completed. thanks to his own action, the exit is now far from completed

you are calling out the arrogance of the company and i'm calling out your arrogance on your take and assumptions on the situation rclxms.gif

Starbucki
post Jan 23 2019, 04:07 PM

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QUOTE(Imdarren @ Jan 23 2019, 03:30 PM)
Dude i'm saying if the Company had the intention to solve the issue amicably they could just deduct his salary for the broken lock.
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Seriously do you think the company really needs the 500 bucks they withheld from the ex-worker? There must be more to it. Be humble and learn more from ppl with experience la when they explain things to you.
xenogearz88
post Jan 23 2019, 04:25 PM

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wew. this story sound like a company getting a twisted version of #metoo.

wimmen say friend try to break out after supposedly "locked inside" (WTF??)

now corporate say employee is "breaking in", and pratically saying wimmen story not accurate.

pusing till dunno what is head or tail anymore. doh.gif doh.gif rclxub.gif rclxub.gif
Imdarren
post Jan 23 2019, 04:27 PM

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QUOTE(bumpo @ Jan 23 2019, 03:54 PM)
what sort of hidden complications? didnt i just threw a few in your face earlier. go read back previous posts.
protect yourself from liability. especially as a business, you need to know this well.

logically first thing business would do is talk to lawyer. you talk to lawyer first to see if it can be settled amicably. if lawyer say kennot coz reason xyz  and next course is go police report, then so be it.
why you so triggered that it wasn't police first? also why you prejudice that talk to lawyer first means is to intimidate and bully the guy from get go?

as for last pay cheque, it is normal practice to hold it until exit is completed. thanks to his own action, the exit is now far from completed

you are calling out the arrogance of the company and i'm calling out your arrogance on your take and assumptions on the situation  rclxms.gif
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The police report is essential because the Company specifically harp on breach and security. If security is their primary focus, a police report would yield an investigation and therefore determine whether he is indeed liable or innocent beyond what he has disclosed. This solves all but one issue - compensation for the broken lock.

How do you solve a criminal issue with a civil lawyer - i don't know lol

Remember, the Company's statement never once allege that the staff committed any other crime besides the broken lock and tress passage to collect his own items.

As a business owner, if my property has a security breach and tress pass, I call the police. If the police determines there is foul play - the lawyer comes into the picture to advise on the next course of action. I rest my case.

Again, i'm not saying the staff is innocent. But my believe is that if there is foul play, an investigation would determine it. If the Company had done its own investigations, they can then explain why a lawyer is necessary in a civil context in their statement. Then we wouldn't be having this debate. If its a criminal matter, the prosecutor should be the federal police. This is legal 101

This post has been edited by Imdarren: Jan 23 2019, 04:35 PM
Starbucki
post Jan 23 2019, 04:30 PM

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QUOTE(xenogearz88 @ Jan 23 2019, 04:25 PM)

wimmen say friend try to break out after supposedly "locked inside" (WTF??)

now corporate say employee is "breaking in", and pratically saying wimmen story not accurate.

pusing till dunno what is head or tail anymore. doh.gif  doh.gif  rclxub.gif  rclxub.gif
*
which one is more plausible....trapped inside? or breaking in?

i dunno...just for discussion
bumpo
post Jan 23 2019, 04:43 PM

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QUOTE(Imdarren @ Jan 23 2019, 04:27 PM)
The police report is essential because the Company specifically harp on breach and security. If security is their primary focus, a police report would yield an investigation and therefore determine whether he is indeed liable or innocent beyond what he has disclosed. This solves all but one issue - compensation for the broken lock.

Remember, the Company's statement never once allege that the staff committed any other crime besides the broken lock and tress passage to collect his own item.

As a business owner, if my property has a security breach and tress pass, I call the police. If the police determines there is foul play - the lawyer comes into the picture to advise on the next course of action. I rest my case.
*
what do you have against getting legal counsel first? why must it be the 2nd step or later
is it because you're trying to put up an argument that the poor dood is now unfairly on the hook for lawyer cost because the company is evil and purposely want to torture the guy? laugh.gif laugh.gif
Imdarren
post Jan 23 2019, 05:20 PM

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QUOTE(bumpo @ Jan 23 2019, 04:43 PM)
what do you have against getting legal counsel first? why must it be the 2nd step or later
is it because you're trying to put up an argument that the poor dood is now unfairly on the hook for lawyer cost because the company is evil and purposely want to torture the guy?  laugh.gif  laugh.gif
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Haha it's because i strongly feel that in a criminal case, the appropriate party is the police - who will be the prosecutor. The company tried to spin it as criminal wrongdoing in their statement so logically this should be the step. My argument centers around the obvious irregularities between the statement of the company vs the actions undertaken.

Anyways this was a good debate. You have your grounds and i have my own. To each his own. wink.gif

This post has been edited by Imdarren: Jan 23 2019, 05:20 PM
tifosi
post Jan 23 2019, 05:34 PM

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Never patron-ed Fishbowl ever since they quietly hiked the price during SST reintroduction.
wangpr
post Jan 23 2019, 05:37 PM

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Fishbowl, nice meh.........
mars2003
post Jan 23 2019, 05:44 PM

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my own real thought... company withheld rm500 because sentiment action... cos the staff broke the lock... as well as a warning to other staff in the future.
now that cheryl pandai pandai go n table talk with manager .. the manager just escalate it with lawyer n police.

bumpo
post Jan 23 2019, 06:38 PM

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QUOTE(Imdarren @ Jan 23 2019, 05:20 PM)
Haha it's because i strongly feel that in a criminal case, the appropriate party is the police - who will be the prosecutor. The company tried to spin it as criminal wrongdoing in their statement so logically this should be the step. My argument centers around the obvious irregularities between the statement of the company vs the actions undertaken.

Anyways this was a good debate. You have your grounds and i have my own. To each his own.  wink.gif
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just as fyi; incident occured > consult lawyer (civil) > report police > persecution lawyer (criminal) ; is a perfectly valid situation as well. you can consult your own lawyer first for advice e.g. to press charges or not. it doesnt mean if you consult your own lawyer, then your lawyer is the one prosecuting laugh.gif

break in vs. locked in
which side is the penipu scammer will be revealed soon rclxms.gif
Red_rustyjelly
post Jan 23 2019, 06:41 PM

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so the loyar is not "loyar" or got loyar or not? or just tok only?

I cannot understand.
nickykee
post Jan 23 2019, 06:51 PM

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"no choice but to break the lock"

kek

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