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 The limit of old-time programmer

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TSmentalhealth.my
post Jan 15 2019, 11:29 PM, updated 6y ago

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This post has been edited by mentalhealth.my: Mar 10 2019, 08:53 PM
TSmentalhealth.my
post Jan 16 2019, 12:18 AM

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This post has been edited by mentalhealth.my: Mar 10 2019, 08:53 PM
TSmentalhealth.my
post Jan 16 2019, 12:56 AM

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This post has been edited by mentalhealth.my: Mar 10 2019, 08:54 PM
TSmentalhealth.my
post Jan 16 2019, 01:06 AM

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This post has been edited by mentalhealth.my: Mar 10 2019, 08:54 PM
weissPC
post Jan 16 2019, 01:49 AM

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Hmmm, it makes me glad to not have chosen IT/Comp Science when in uni or choose to go in to programming related field after coming out to work (my degree/training is flexible enough for me to go into engineering or programming) because I think I would be in a similar situation as you, very difficult to keep up with the latest things.

I'm an engineer by training but gave it up and went into another career. In this new career, when my HQ released a new IOS app to replace the previous Windows program, it's difficult for me to adapt while the young guns have much less problems adapting to it, maybe because they were not used to or never got too comfortable with the old Windows program, and just glad to adopt a mobile centric app.

I would propose you to move up the value chain, become a software project manager, managing a group of programmers rather than doing the grunt work yourself. Your experience will still be relevant, the workflow/concepts/logic should remain fundamentally the same, just the programming language and platform/sdk are different.

You just have to know some basic, bird's eye view of the new stuffs and not have to get down to the nitty gritty stuffs.

Not in programming so not sure the above advise works but that will the natural progression for engineers who do not want to continue the pure technical route and choose the management route (more like a half technical-half management path). Or else do what I did, look for a more sustainable career that doesn't involve you keeping up with the latest in a fast changing world.

I thought you'd be older than me since you mentioned you worked in WFW, which is a early or mid-1990s precursor to WinNT, WinCE is an OS for PDAs or some embedded systems (?) during the early 2000s.
TSmentalhealth.my
post Jan 16 2019, 02:17 AM

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QUOTE(weissPC @ Jan 16 2019, 01:49 AM)
Hmmm, it makes me glad to not have chosen IT/Comp Science when in uni or choose to go in to programming related field after coming out to work .......I thought you'd be older than me since you mentioned you worked in WFW, which is a early or mid-1990s precursor to WinNT, WinCE is an OS for PDAs or some embedded systems (?) during the early 2000s.
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Finally someone who can understand my feelings...thank you for your empathy. I don't have the leadership skill so no, managerial position is not an option for me. I am 42 years old this year, was sent to computer class when I was 8 years old....Windows CE .NET was still alive during 2005.

I hope you enjoy your existing career and appreciate it more than ever now. As for me, I will see how.....maybe there will be some other comments from LYN coders. Thanks.

weissPC
post Jan 16 2019, 02:54 AM

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QUOTE(mentalhealth.my @ Jan 16 2019, 02:17 AM)
Finally someone who can understand my feelings...thank you for your empathy. I don't have the leadership skill so no, managerial position is not an option for me.  I am 42 years old this year, was sent to computer class when I was 8 years old....Windows CE .NET was still alive during 2005.

I hope you enjoy your existing career and appreciate it more than ever now. As for me, I will see how.....maybe there will be some other comments from LYN coders. Thanks.
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I was introduced to computers around 6 yrs old by my father who bought an Apple ][, then an IBM XT clone, so have been following the personal computer's evolution and growth since quite early on.

Been cutting those newspaper clippings from NST (CompuTimes) and TheStar (In.Tech) for so many years, even those have become obsolete (or integrated into the main newspaper, since IT is already part of mainstream and no longer a niche).

My father was the one who introduced me to PCs and guided me but he is also left behind now, I am providing technical support for his handphones and computer/laptops, but he still can handle many of the PC software/OS problems himself, just that he haven't kept up with the hardware side nor the mobile side.
weissPC
post Jan 16 2019, 03:12 AM

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TS, new year new hope! It's not only you, many of my ex-colleagues from my engineering days will be made redundant this year, so the disruption of the old timers are happening, but take heart, WhatsApp was created by a couple of ex-Yahoo programmers, who knows, you could come out with something new even if not on the scale of WhatsApp that will benefit many.

Don't worry too much, it is projected that our generation and beyond will have multiple careers in different fields since tech will move so fast, so we will more likely be freelancers and have multiple certificates/degrees as we re-invent ourselves multiple times.

We will work well beyond 70 yrs old as long as health permits with advancement in healthcare and biotech, not because we are forced to but because we wanted to and it will keep our mind active.
narf03
post Jan 16 2019, 03:30 AM

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im like you, taken computer class about the same time, my first machine is a 80286(with msdos and windows 3.11), first language, basic, not visual, not quick, but just "basic" which you have to assign each line a number, and keep using goto here and there.

my first programmer job, i work in a 2 man company, my boss and me, i had to do almost anything, from coding, meeting customer, to help my boss to pay his bills else no electricity. sometimes had to work OT until 2am cause i choose to make an application better, which my boss not really appreciate during that moment, but really happy after like months cause he able to get repeating profit.

i do all sorts of custom applications or systems, from swimming event result management system(with output to scoreboard or mixer[to tv]) to Point of sales(custom made just for 1 customer, cause they dont follow rules of point of sales). creating application working with hardware like PLC, raspberry pi, barcode scanner, printer, rfid, etc

however im happy of what ive chose, i dont regret my life as im happy of doing things that im interested on, at least ive met many ppl that trust my capability(im not a diploma nor a degree holder), willing to give me chance to proof. compare to ppl that sitting in office doing daily routine robot job, like HR or sales, i think my job is hell alot more interesting.

This post has been edited by narf03: Jan 16 2019, 03:33 AM
TSmentalhealth.my
post Jan 16 2019, 04:47 AM

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QUOTE(weissPC @ Jan 16 2019, 03:12 AM)
Been cutting those newspaper clippings from NST (CompuTimes) and TheStar (In.Tech) for so many years, even those have become obsolete (or integrated into the main newspaper, since IT is already part of mainstream and no longer a niche).
I enjoyed reading your comments. You also bring back the old memories, Yes I remember InTech, and not just English newspaper, the Malay and Chinese newspaper at that time also had subsection for IT.....

What you have said in your last post is heart-warming, thank you for your well wishes and positive thoughts. WhatsApp benefits many but ironically it is not popular in the US. heehee.

You are a good son to your father, times to give back to him since he taught you elementary IT back in your boyhood. Thanks.
TSmentalhealth.my
post Jan 16 2019, 04:53 AM

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QUOTE(narf03 @ Jan 16 2019, 03:30 AM)
im like you, taken computer class about the same time........but really happy after like months cause he able to get repeating profit......i do all sorts of custom applications or systems, from swimming event result management system(with output to scoreboard or mixer[to tv]) to Point of sales(custom made just for 1 customer, cause they dont follow rules of point of sales). creating application working with hardware like PLC, raspberry pi, barcode scanner, printer, rfid, etc.......however im happy of what ive chose,.......
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I am amazed at your long career life as programmer. How did you manage to keep up with that? I mean VB 2.0 was popular around 1994 and now VB 2019 is off the shelf, how did you catch up the programming language, its IDE and the SDK? VB 6.0 and VB 7.0 (2002) particularly two different language platform although it is still called "Visual Basic". I took VB as an example.

Prior to .NET, we likely need to deal with Windows API a lot, and things like that. You have done things I never done before, such as Raspberry pi and RFID.

This post has been edited by mentalhealth.my: Jan 16 2019, 04:56 AM
TSmentalhealth.my
post Jan 16 2019, 05:00 AM

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QUOTE(weissPC @ Jan 16 2019, 02:54 AM)
...... so have been following the personal computer's evolution and growth since quite early on.

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Plus, there were SoftCom (Software writing competition) organized by Ministry of Education during the 90s........
TSmentalhealth.my
post Jan 16 2019, 05:14 AM

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I admit software specialization is better than a "multi-purpose programmer" ( or swiss knives.)
In fact, my software application were at low quality except those written in ASM and EPOC OPL.

I simply cannot write high quality sw. program using VB, VC++ and Pascal. I am not sure why.
As such, I admire those who can write good quality program such as those Made in US / Canada. I recall a Windows program to have well documented CHM help file, but normally those software I saw in Malaysia (included mine) did not have proper documentation, let alone CHM help file.

This post has been edited by mentalhealth.my: Jan 16 2019, 05:15 AM
TSmentalhealth.my
post Jan 16 2019, 05:30 AM

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This thread reminds me of TSR (terminate and stay resident), that's how DOS program stayed alive in the background at that time......Whole lots of memories, like Ralph Brown's interrupt list, (sound blaster)SB16 programming guide, IBM PC technical manual, etc.

I did a EXE patcher utility, a German software cracker even e-mailed me to ask for permission to use it.....The EXE patcher is a menu & dialog-driven UI to compare two EXEs side by side, and then create a small command-line program to patch the original EXE to make it works like new EXE......

This post has been edited by mentalhealth.my: Jan 16 2019, 05:33 AM
TSmentalhealth.my
post Jan 16 2019, 05:40 AM

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I even invented my own new programming language and binary compiler, and was used by a small online community at least until few years back.
The binary compiler can create .COM executable program from the command language set defined by me. For example, DISPLAYBIOSDATE one-liner would also be compiled to display the BIOS version and date in the DOS window.
Almost made a PCI card (a printed circuit board to be plugged in PCI extention slot), almost made an operating environment (full of calculator, file manager, video player, notepad, etc) under DOS.....
Going to clean up my memories some more.....
TSmentalhealth.my
post Jan 16 2019, 05:48 AM

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Last but not least, I was managed to decipher (R&D) a L4000 (made in China) Intelligent controller both hardware and software for a Karaoke company within one week.
I found out the RS232-RJ45 adapter must use Yost-wiring, and wrote a VB.NET DLL to send signals to the L4000 to control light bulbs (half dozens of them).

Maybe it is time to say Goodbye to DOS and farewell to VB.

This post has been edited by mentalhealth.my: Jan 16 2019, 05:50 AM
narf03
post Jan 16 2019, 05:58 AM

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QUOTE(mentalhealth.my @ Jan 16 2019, 04:53 AM)
I am amazed at your long career life as programmer. How did you manage to keep up with that? I mean VB 2.0 was popular around 1994 and now VB 2019 is off the shelf, how did you catch up the programming language, its IDE and the SDK? VB 6.0 and VB 7.0 (2002) particularly two different language platform although it is still called "Visual Basic". I took VB as an example.

Prior to .NET, we likely need to deal with Windows API a lot, and things like that. You have done things I never done before, such as Raspberry pi and RFID.
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well, i guess you have done things i have never done b4 too.

as for programming language, i dont see there is a big different between versions, like vb2-vb6, i think there are differences, but not really difficult, cause as long as you know the 90%, the extra 10% changes isnt really a problem as things dont change too much.

but from vb, to vb.net, there are big different, as many things changed. i think i did spend some effort there to force myself to change as .net is the future. i think 50% of the vb knowledge cannot be brought forward to .net, things like socket, comm port, database, datagrid, etc changed. then dotnet changes from 2012-2019 doesnt really matter much, like vb, the changes is little by little, u can still use the older knowledge in the newer ide, and the ide usually will tell you what is obsolete and whats the newer way of doing things.

as i said b4, i m lucky to have ppl that willing to trust me, like my boss, i told him i have never done raspberry pi b4, but i have confident of doing it, then my boss just let me start doing it and just bulk purchase like 300 units of pi(over rm 30k, could have gone really bad if things doesnt work), just in case unable to get them after i done the code, i force myself to work OT and over the week end to not to fail his trust.

as for API in dotnet, i have very little issue with them, compare to dll hell which put me in deep shit countless of times.
TSmentalhealth.my
post Jan 16 2019, 06:19 AM

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QUOTE(narf03 @ Jan 16 2019, 05:58 AM)
....i dont see there is a big different between versions, like vb2-vb6, i think there are differences, but not really difficult,.......but from vb, to vb.net, there are big different, as many things changed. i think i did spend some effort there to force myself to change as .net is the future.......as i said b4, i m lucky to have ppl that willing to trust me, like my boss,........i force myself to work OT and over the week end to not to fail his trust.
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I see that was how you managed to survive the trends. Thank you for sharing.

Sounds like you have worked for at least ten years for your boss...... Loyal employee are trusted and appreciated. I think your sincerity also would make others put trust in you.

Well done, and hope to see you share your new programming challenge in Codemaster subforum.
TSmentalhealth.my
post Jan 16 2019, 06:28 AM

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QUOTE(narf03 @ Jan 16 2019, 05:58 AM)
, compare to dll hell which put me in deep shit countless of  times.
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Yeah, .NET DLL is more easier to create than VB6 DLL......I almost ran away when working for a Puchong-based software house that everyday job was dealing with VB6 DLL----and in fact, I ran away after 3 weeks without salary..... shocking.gif
spilocke
post Jan 16 2019, 10:00 AM

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Nice reading this thread.

Started with the old IBM XT clone 286 with that huge black floppy disk playing Digger. Graduated Computer Sci locally and the only stuffs taught back then was Turbo Pascal and very little Turbo C. Did the DLL hell with DirectX (formerly WinG if anyone actually remembers) as a final year project thanks to Final Fantasy 7. Dune 2000 was an easy hack with just the editing of the ini file, you can control the sandworm. Lightwave 3D. That's about it. Personal interest was more towards 3D animation and design but in year 2k, nothing much exist... so hit the job market doing Cold Fusion by Allaire (before it was bought over by Adobe) for a local software company.

From your post, you did lots of hardware integration while I was pitched only to software systems. Soon found myself abandoning Cold Fusion and into VB then VB.NET mainly dealing with web systems, integration with backend reporting services extracting from various databases, MSSQL, DB2....

While I still work with VB.NET, I would say nowadays we need to also work with various frontend libraries (eg bootstrap) for that responsive designs for both the desktop and mobile experience. For graphs and all those financial dashboard, I learned up those freeware libraries (eg chart.js) to provide a nice layout.

On a side note... failed in iOS but ok with Android game making biggrin.gif

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