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> Collective KL could be a "CON" church

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agent sawyer
post Jan 11 2019, 12:35 AM

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You had better have a good reason to claim that this particular church is a scam

Realise that right now you are saying something like, "Burger King Singapore is a scammer, how can Malaysia Govt allow Mcd to operate"

P.S. wow. That blog is pretty toxic.

This post has been edited by agent sawyer: Jan 11 2019, 12:37 AM
agent sawyer
post Jan 11 2019, 12:44 AM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 12:41 AM)
It is obvious they share a same founder "Kong Hee", it is written in the media
Burger king and McDonald is formed by different founder dude
The definition of "founder" is not the same as "shareholder"

Besides, you accused Collective KL of being a scam. Do you have any proof?

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I don't find the blog is toxic, she is telling the truth
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Not at all

There are many parts of her article that are not only false but frankly repulsive to read

Such great hate evident in her words...
agent sawyer
post Jan 11 2019, 01:07 AM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 12:48 AM)
It is not an accuse, it is all over in the media dude. What do you mean a great hate? She is alarmed the people
Spreading such a news is part of social responsibility, how can you twist the story around?
Are you accusing the Singapore government did a wrong thing as well?
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I'm not saying SG Govt is wrong, I'm saying you and that woman are wrong because you don't understand the 2 churches are separate entities with different practices and different corporate governance.

But anyway, are you accusing Collective KL of fraud?

Go make a police report if you dare. Isn't that part of "social responsibility"? Go on, do it.

This post has been edited by agent sawyer: Jan 11 2019, 01:08 AM
agent sawyer
post Jan 11 2019, 01:44 AM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 01:29 AM)
I'm sorry to say, the fact is Pr.Kong Hee name is everywhere on the website,

Which website?

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furthermore the Collective KL website should not emphasize the scammer "Kong Hee" name

wrong
his name is only mentioned in one paragraph, it's not "everywhere" nor is it "emphasized"

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and appreciate him like an idol.

wrong
Collective KL's website doesn't "appreciate" him "like an idol" at all. Just a mention of the influence he did in founding the church.

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I'm sure you already know, Europe, UK and US are suffering a huge decline of Christianity, the scammer is the reason behind

wrong
The CHC Singapore scandal isn't so influential as to cause a "huge decline of Christianity" in Europe, UK and US

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The blogger herself is Christianity, what are you talking about? she is worrying.
wrong

Helen Ang is apparently a buddhist

Of course she sounds worrying, her blog is all about attacking these (usual) targets for her political masters. Knowing the churches' position in Malaysia's political and social landscape, I'm not surprised at all.

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You are protecting the scammer or christian? I'm curious

wrong

There is no scammer to protect here, because you are just making up stories with no proof

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If you are a christian you should just switch to others church, that's all. Why you sound like an angry man?
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Why do you sound like a batu api with no proof?
agent sawyer
post Jan 11 2019, 08:49 AM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 01:54 AM)
Are you illiterate?
You're the one totally confused about this situation to the point of accusing this church of a crime, and you're calling me illiterate?

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Or just want to argue without purpose?
Better than accusing people of crime without purpose or proof

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All previous posts and screenshot already shown, you sure Kong Hee name only shows in one paragraph (But you just admit his name is inside Collective KL website).
WOW. And this is your "proof" that Collective KL is a scammer

Go on, submit this as "proof" in a report to PDRM. I dare you. I double dare you. Go on, Mr. Socially Responsible.

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Definitely the "huge decline of Christianity" is not caused by CHC dude. It's cause by irresponsible evangelical from the west.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjPtXla7fJ4&t=92s  (BBC, Fox almost all media report)

Exactly. Which is why your earlier statement is wrong.

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How do you know she is a buddhist?
Some people commenting on her posts identify her as Buddhist, and if you read her posts you'll see she does show signs of that

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beside I'm talking about scammer right now, not religion why you so furious?

NO. You're not talking about "scammer" right now, you're talking about an innocent church as if they are proven scammers

I could describe my current activity as talking to a "slanderous liar" with more proof than you have

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Then why don't Collective KL just remove Kong Hee name? Can explain? I really don't get it
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Because whatever else he did in his church, he did also inspire the pastors of Collective KL to found their church

You're so smart to read their website but you can't understand this?

And dare to call people "illiterate"... haiz doh.gif

QUOTE(play05 @ Jan 11 2019, 03:06 AM)
Why u sound like one of their member or mayb partner  whistling.gif
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I'm not a member

but I know people who go there

you can say I'm concerned with their reputation, so yes, if I see some moron slandering them even if it's just /ktard stupidity, I'll jump in and "protek"
agent sawyer
post Jan 11 2019, 10:25 AM

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QUOTE(kevin23 @ Jan 11 2019, 10:14 AM)
A church in Subang Jaya. Next to UCSI school.

Lets just put it this way. A church is supposed to be a place of worship nothing more. They are not supposed to run a church like a freaking business.

If u step inside collective kl, theres a futsal court which is open to public, theres a cafe, and they even rent out their lobby space for events.

Yes donations to church are acceptable. But the fact is they run this church like a business establishment. Thats why ppl are not so comfortable with it.
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"They are not supposed to run a church like a business"
and
"They should not engage in business activities"
and
"They should not engage in ANY business activities AT ALL"

are 3 very different things. I'm going to talk about point 1 in relation to the cafe.

The facilities in the church are mainly for their own use. You know I know that hardly anyone will come into the church just to drink coffee. Obviously there has to be a charge for the usage of the facilities/consumption of the goods. Anybody who runs F&B will know that the cafe is unlikely to be profitable.

It's a very far step from having a designated, essentially subsidised cafe, to "running a church like a business". That's something else entirely.

The "event space" will be similar, and again for similar reasons. Usually events are going to be held by fellow Christian organisations.

What are the alternatives? Well e.g. my church runs a canteen on 100% donation basis, where someone just tops up the Nescafe when it runs out. I don't entirely agree with that, I believe there should be a nominal charge for the consumer. Well they are small enough that they don't feel the pinch. But if they had a congregation in the 1000s, coffee money becomes a significant amount.
agent sawyer
post Jan 11 2019, 10:27 AM

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QUOTE(spacelion @ Jan 11 2019, 10:20 AM)
do you remember planetshakers had mike gugliemucci scandal , or right now Hillsongs has the Ps Houston scandal, even then will you stop listening to their music bcos of 1 bad apple ?
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TS attitude is must black out their name entirely, like the emperors of ancient kingdoms did to traitors rolleyes.gif

anyway congrats TS, you have successfully attracted the church-hating denizens of /k, since this is going to be a bashing thread shortly I'll be seeing myself out

QUOTE(Starbucki @ Jan 11 2019, 10:25 AM)
You twisted the whole thing to suit your own views.
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indeed, the same can be said for any religion, any philosophy, any cause

This post has been edited by agent sawyer: Jan 11 2019, 10:28 AM
agent sawyer
post Jan 11 2019, 10:56 AM

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QUOTE(Starbucki @ Jan 11 2019, 10:48 AM)
Funny that TS keep saying the church should remove kong hee's name.

Transparent salah

Conceal tak salah

Phailed logic
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TS is memang anti religion in the first place

all this is just wayang to push his actual agenda
agent sawyer
post Jan 11 2019, 12:13 PM

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QUOTE(fuzzy @ Jan 11 2019, 11:15 AM)
she's a feature writer for RPK too

a lot of what she writes is quite sickening really
agent sawyer
post Jan 11 2019, 10:19 PM

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QUOTE(Elgore @ Jan 11 2019, 01:54 PM)
write so long got use ah?

u trying to protek him from slandering without proof but in return he accuse you of protek the church pulak  laugh.gif
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other people can read

but as for this guy, he has an agenda from the start to stir up trouble

now he is even claiming he is a "secular christian" whatever the heck that is, as if it gives him some kind of legitimacy to criticise

but he has always been anti-religion from the start

QUOTE(starlight glimmer @ Jan 11 2019, 07:08 PM)
both church is link together to the 1 person who scam christian. However he is in the jail but the scam is on going without mastermind.
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prove it

or else you are defaming Collective KL

This post has been edited by agent sawyer: Jan 11 2019, 10:24 PM
agent sawyer
post Jan 11 2019, 10:32 PM

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QUOTE(Lumiaaa @ Jan 11 2019, 01:36 PM)
How can you pray while having pop concert

That is so stupid

Imagine mosque have pop concert pray to Allah
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allow me to attempt a (long-ish) explanation

music has always been a part of Christian worship, the Bible legit includes worship songs from ancient Israeli times

for a long time worship involved hymns such as "Amazing Grace" which I'm sure most people heard of



many religious Christmas songs too - in fact the majority of Christmas songs minus the secular American pop of the past 100-odd years, because up until then, Christmas obviously is a religious celebration

American and English churches both have hymns literally hundreds of years old, some which are still sung today

meanwhile the Catholics prefer to sing Latin traditional hymns during Mass, maybe the most famous is Ave Maria

so anyway well, these modern American Christians, their idea is this: why can't Christian worship songs adopt the same musical and lyrical structure of rock and pop songs?

after all, pop is a matter of perspective, pop literally is short for "popular". Hymns are simply reflecting what was popular then. As the years advance, popular music changes in tone, style, beat, etc.

In short: Why should hymns remain the hymns of the 1980s (for example), and not updated to 2000s standards... considering that the hymns of the 1980s which we love today, were considered "stupid pop" in 1980... and the hymns of 1930s (for example) were probably considered "stupid pop" back in 1930... Who knows if in 2030 people will be saying "hymns should be more like hymns of the 2000s"

Even though I myself don't subscribe to this view, they have a point... I myself object to this view, because I love the old-fashioned hymns of the 90s, 80s... BUT again, maybe I just like them because they are what I grew up with.

I'm self-aware enough to know that...
agent sawyer
post Jan 11 2019, 10:35 PM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 10:30 PM)
I guess you just try to be an ignorant, such negative such toxic behavior, repeating ask something already answered. The TS have already shown how Kong Hee related to Collective
and the relation is irrelevant

therefore you are WRONG in calling Collective KL a scam based on this relation

therefore you are a DEFAMATORY, SLANDEROUS LIAR

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There are so many churches out there, but you choose to admire scammer. Seriously, I have no clue lolx
Kong Hee cast a magic on you? rclxub.gif
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Nobody is "admiring" any "scammer"

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I guess now the followers just behave like UMNO members, argue pointless things
Speaking of UMNO

MMU's Chancellor is the legal advisor of UMNO, YABhg. Tun Dato' Seri Zaki Tun Azmi who is linked to certain scandals

Going by your logic, MMU is a scam organisation and all their employees and graduates scammers

agree?

This post has been edited by agent sawyer: Jan 11 2019, 10:36 PM
agent sawyer
post Jan 12 2019, 08:14 AM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 11 2019, 10:48 PM)
Okay
Without Pr. Kong and his wife Sun, we wouldn’t be where we are today. City Harvest is not just a name that we have carried but an identity we have come to embrace.

City Harvest is not just a name that we have carried, (so the "we" is Collective KL, Collective Kl admit it, so what you gonna said) ?
but an identity we have come to embrace. <<<< so how about this?

Seem like Singapore citizen, goverment, helen or us who criticise the scammer is a bad guy?
Only Pastor Kong Hee, the scammer is the right one  rclxub.gif  rclxub.gif
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so what's your point?

did Collective KL say KONG HEE SCAMMER AND I LIKE KONG HEE SCAM AND AYAM SCAMMER TOO?

no right?

they simply said exactly what they said - Kong Hee previously inspired the church, and that is their founding identity. they aren't remitting money to Kong Hee.

anybody even non-Christians would understand where they are coming from. but simply because they have this connection which they aren't trying to cover up, YOU want to push your "scammer" agenda

to the point where you can loudly open thread COLLECTIVE KL IS A SCAM simply on the strength of this doh.gif

like that might as well say MULTIMEDIA UNIVERSITY IS A SCAM UNIVERSITY simply cause the Chancellor is in UMNO top leadership doh.gif

the problem is YOU, not anybody else
agent sawyer
post Jan 13 2019, 08:11 AM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 12 2019, 11:31 AM)
Now you admit have connection, so before this you try to lie?
LoLreally tries so hard to justify the scammer, pity you. " City Harvest is NOT just a NAME that we HAVE carried", do you need a secondary school students to explain this sentence to you?
Without Pr. Kong and his wife Sun, we wouldn’t be where we are today. City Harvest is not just a name that we have carried but an identity we have come to embrace.

you are right, UMNO and you fall into the category, I'm super curious is Malaysia running out of church? no others option? lol
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You are insane

No, I take that back

You are not insane, you are evil, and deliberately twisting words to frame a religious group that has done nothing wrong other than be founded by the wrong person

empire23 you've shown yourself to be fair minded with your posting in the past week. Tell me, are you going to allow this kind of baseless and slanderous allegation to continue? Especially with the insinuation quoted below that is surely a generalizing statement targeted at a religion?

Would LYN allow the same to be said of other religious groups in Malaysia? If the answer is no, are you being fair?

QUOTE(nelienuxe_sara @ Jan 13 2019, 12:28 AM)
church scam?
move along
nothing to see
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This post has been edited by agent sawyer: Jan 13 2019, 08:12 AM
agent sawyer
post Jan 13 2019, 09:39 AM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 13 2019, 09:08 AM)
Seem like your brain already heavily toxic by Kong Hee's magic. The evidence is there yet you deny. I guess for you, evidence is pointless, just believe right? lolx "what luck for scammer that man do not think"
Seem like everyone who report Kong Hee is evil, guess the whole world and all media is evil, just like Donald trump said all is fake news. Only Kong Hee is right?
Well JJPTR followers used to say anyone critic the founder is evil as well lolx
You just use the cheap UMNO tactic again lolx, this TS is about scammer yet you try desperately to twist this TS as anti-religion. That's why I categories you with UMNO
Remember worship a scammer like Kong Hee is very sinful, I'm so pity on you rclxub.gif  rclxub.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DxlLf5DY_8&t=167s
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I am not denying Kong Hee is a scammer

I am denying that Collective KL is a scammer

You have no proof that Collective KL is a scammer

Yet here you are saying these slanderous things

Well you can go ahead and continue saying it

Your own record is here for all to see

(Ignored)
agent sawyer
post Jan 14 2019, 09:08 AM

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QUOTE(empire23 @ Jan 13 2019, 01:21 PM)
Well. My question would be, is the crux of his assertion correct? That this collective church was founded and has significant foundational ties to the disgraced pastor?

If it is true I guess one would allow it under a Prima facie “public interest” criterion. My logic is that it would be in the public interest to know that such ties exist.

It would be akin to a charitable organisation founded by say a controversial figure like Zakir Naik but in a different area. Would I want to know? Yes. Is it the public interest? Yes. Neither do any of the statements constitute blatant incitement, thus I can’t see any reason to enforce anything.

I suppose if there’s anything libellous, the church and their legal representatives can contact us for removal. As for me, I take no sides in the matter in terms of opinion.
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You've read his argument

Do you think there is sufficient grounds for this kind of statement?

Do you think I or anyone else can make a statement of fact that any organisation in Malaysia "is a scam and should be banned" on the basis of merely this level of "connection" - ie that the organisation was "inspired by" - with a convicted fraud criminal?

And the other person whom I quoted

can I comment on any topic "temple (or any other religious organisation) scam, move along, nothing to see"?

or will you take action?

The way I see it there are a lot of provocative statements being made here which would not be made if it was relating to other, perhaps more popular, religions. If that is so and the mods ignore this thread while taking action on other threads, that is rather one-sided is it not?

This post has been edited by agent sawyer: Jan 14 2019, 09:08 AM
agent sawyer
post Jan 15 2019, 10:14 AM

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QUOTE(empire23 @ Jan 14 2019, 10:50 AM)

without resorting to name calling.
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...really.

 

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