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 Collective KL could be a "CON" church

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Fat & Fluffy
post Jan 13 2019, 11:40 PM

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any nice songs from chc? i only found be with you
spacelion
post Jan 13 2019, 11:41 PM

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QUOTE(whitefong @ Jan 13 2019, 11:30 PM)
Uhmm lolx yawn.gif  whistling.gif
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ahahaha typical close minded sheep

when other people copy you then it's violent

only your way is the correct way.
TSwhitefong
post Jan 13 2019, 11:54 PM

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QUOTE(spacelion @ Jan 13 2019, 11:41 PM)
ahahaha typical close minded sheep

when other people copy you then it's violent

only your way is the correct way.
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So sad for you, desperately try to discredit someone close minded, when fail to answer overwhelming questions. console.gif
You can do what you want, just start a new TS regard whatever you want to speak off. Don't need to wait for my approval lolx, I just share what I know, you can share what you know. Simple lolx shocking.gif

This post has been edited by whitefong: Jan 13 2019, 11:56 PM
Wendyvalou
post Jan 14 2019, 12:29 AM

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Those spread false accusation against Kong Hee, CHC and Collective KL will face the ultimate punishment from God during judgement day
Taikor.Taikun
post Jan 14 2019, 12:43 AM

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QUOTE(Wendyvalou @ Jan 14 2019, 12:29 AM)
Those spread false accusation against Kong Hee, CHC and Collective KL will face the ultimate punishment from God during judgement day
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He was convicted
rooney723
post Jan 14 2019, 12:46 AM

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QUOTE(Wendyvalou @ Jan 14 2019, 12:29 AM)
Those spread false accusation against Kong Hee, CHC and Collective KL will face the ultimate punishment from God during judgement day
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kesian another delusional chc member, religion really blinded ur thinking huh? why is it ok for a pastor to steal?

and since u believe kong hee is innocent, then do u also believe najib is innocent and he didnt steal 2.6 bil frm 1mdb?
SUSskyblu3
post Jan 14 2019, 12:56 AM

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QUOTE(b3ta @ Jan 13 2019, 11:38 PM)
it is quite ordinary for christians to pay 10% aka tithes aka zakat in any church

this point is has no relevance to this thread's discussion
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Yes. Ordinary.
But I do know some church of you don't pay enough the leaders will have a Counceling session with that person. Contributions put in envelope with names.

One church I go last time the pastor preaching time say if you don't give 10% then God will not love and blessings you. CHC type of modern church.
SUSb3ta
post Jan 14 2019, 01:08 AM

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QUOTE(skyblu3 @ Jan 14 2019, 01:56 AM)
Yes.  Ordinary.
But I do know some church of you don't pay enough the leaders will have a Counceling session with that person.  Contributions put in envelope with names.

One church I go last time the pastor preaching time say if you don't give 10% then God will not love and blessings you.  CHC type of modern church.
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Lol that sounds extreme.

I would avoid those churches. Giving has to come from the heart
SUSskyblu3
post Jan 14 2019, 01:09 AM

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QUOTE(b3ta @ Jan 14 2019, 01:08 AM)
Lol that sounds extreme.

I would avoid those churches. Giving has to come from the heart
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Exactly.
drajm
post Jan 14 2019, 08:24 AM

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At the end of the day.
God does not need defending, especially by mere humans.
No one can bodek him, no one sits beside him or advises him.
You don't impress him by giving him money/ luxury or followers.
He just looks into your souls and judges you.

ShinnKQ
post Jan 14 2019, 08:58 AM

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THE POWER OF CRAIS COMPELS YOI
desmond2020
post Jan 14 2019, 09:01 AM

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QUOTE(Wendyvalou @ Jan 14 2019, 12:29 AM)
Those spread false accusation against Kong Hee, CHC and Collective KL will face the ultimate punishment from God during judgement day
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Kesian ni



May you repent
agent sawyer
post Jan 14 2019, 09:08 AM

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QUOTE(empire23 @ Jan 13 2019, 01:21 PM)
Well. My question would be, is the crux of his assertion correct? That this collective church was founded and has significant foundational ties to the disgraced pastor?

If it is true I guess one would allow it under a Prima facie “public interest” criterion. My logic is that it would be in the public interest to know that such ties exist.

It would be akin to a charitable organisation founded by say a controversial figure like Zakir Naik but in a different area. Would I want to know? Yes. Is it the public interest? Yes. Neither do any of the statements constitute blatant incitement, thus I can’t see any reason to enforce anything.

I suppose if there’s anything libellous, the church and their legal representatives can contact us for removal. As for me, I take no sides in the matter in terms of opinion.
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You've read his argument

Do you think there is sufficient grounds for this kind of statement?

Do you think I or anyone else can make a statement of fact that any organisation in Malaysia "is a scam and should be banned" on the basis of merely this level of "connection" - ie that the organisation was "inspired by" - with a convicted fraud criminal?

And the other person whom I quoted

can I comment on any topic "temple (or any other religious organisation) scam, move along, nothing to see"?

or will you take action?

The way I see it there are a lot of provocative statements being made here which would not be made if it was relating to other, perhaps more popular, religions. If that is so and the mods ignore this thread while taking action on other threads, that is rather one-sided is it not?

This post has been edited by agent sawyer: Jan 14 2019, 09:08 AM
prophetjul
post Jan 14 2019, 09:10 AM

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QUOTE(spacelion @ Jan 13 2019, 08:21 PM)
Later I will start one for hillsong. We see how many ppl triggered. Because I'm sure every non Catholic Christian use hillsong in their worship, so will have tonnes of ppl trying to argue.
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Awful songs void of theology. laugh.gif
Not to mention their worldly type of church.
Not to mention their leadership paedo controversy
desmond2020
post Jan 14 2019, 09:11 AM

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QUOTE(teamjoker @ Jan 14 2019, 09:07 AM)
Repent from? Say la clearly apa salahan.
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Prosperity gospel


Name it claim it


Etc


The America dream modified version of Christianity
desmond2020
post Jan 14 2019, 09:20 AM

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QUOTE(teamjoker @ Jan 14 2019, 09:18 AM)
Yaka. Got any example from the bible say its salahan or not.
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Of course nothing wrong


Jesus and his disciple all died peacefully on their own bed after enjoy being rich and famous


/s
prophetjul
post Jan 14 2019, 09:20 AM

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QUOTE
According to the COC report, some of the prosecuted CHC leaders have crossed the red line when between December 2007 and May 2010, some S$2.1 millions from CHC were channeled to the U.S. crossover project via an affiliated church in Malaysia (City Harvest Church Kuala Lumpur, CHCKL). In the CHC accounts, the funds transferred are recorded as a donation to the building fund of CHCKL. However the COC report claims that the same funds were actually then transmitted by CHCKL to support the Crossover Project in the United States under the guise of a love gift. The COC investigations apparently revealed that clear instructions were given via email by some of the accused CHC Leaders in Singapore to CHCKL to transfer the so-called “donations” to the Crossover in the U.S. disguised as “love gifts” and hence exposing the true purpose of the original “donations”.


Round tripping, anyone?

https://theriskmanagementparadox.com/2014/0...over-financing/


QUOTE
Between 2007 and 2010, a portion of the church's funds was used to finance her career under the guise of donations to its affiliated church in Kuala Lumpur.

At least $2.1m was then transmitted by this affiliate church to the US to fund her career



http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews/...627-355757.html

So you wonder why CHCKL changed their name?
empire23
post Jan 14 2019, 10:50 AM

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QUOTE(agent sawyer @ Jan 14 2019, 09:08 AM)
You've read his argument

Do you think there is sufficient grounds for this kind of statement?

Do you think I or anyone else can make a statement of fact that any organisation in Malaysia "is a scam and should be banned" on the basis of merely this level of "connection" - ie that the organisation was "inspired by" - with a convicted fraud criminal?

And the other person whom I quoted

can I comment on any topic "temple (or any other religious organisation) scam, move along, nothing to see"?

or will you take action?

The way I see it there are a lot of provocative statements being made here which would not be made if it was relating to other, perhaps more popular, religions. If that is so and the mods ignore this thread while taking action on other threads, that is rather one-sided is it not?
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I actually didn't want to get involved in regards to the argument per se but your assertion got me thinking if I needed to be more well versed in the matter.

I decided to read up on the matter to get a better idea and researched the SG government reports in regards to movement of money from Singapore to Malaysia. There is also definitive timeline and connection between all entities involved. CHCKL also maintains active links with the original name (you can see their twitter) and you can also summarize that they're the affiliate referred to in the charge sheet and the COC SG Government reports.

While definitive proof in the matter of actual wrongdoing doesn't exist, because it hasn't been investigated on the Malaysian side, the circumstantial evidence is damning at best. Prima Facie, there is a link and it's my opinion a reasonable person would think so.

There seems to be basis for the TS's allegations from reputable sources (Gov reports, court filings, public information). I've allowed a lot of religion based discussion threads to run their course and as long as they don't get out of hand that's fine with me. We try to cultivate robust discussion when possible here without resorting to name calling.




Wendyvalou
post Jan 14 2019, 09:20 PM

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QUOTE(Taikor.Taikun @ Jan 14 2019, 12:43 AM)
He was convicted
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Laugh while you can, it will not last
TSwhitefong
post Jan 14 2019, 10:37 PM

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Now they have Billion Dollar life talk, Entry fee is RM50 per person. They train follower to become billionaire like Kong Hee?



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This post has been edited by whitefong: Jan 14 2019, 11:50 PM

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