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> Battery brand that has lasted 4 years or more.

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SleeplessEyes
post Nov 16 2020, 10:20 PM

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This post has been edited by SleeplessEyes: Nov 16 2020, 10:46 PM
SleeplessEyes
post Nov 17 2020, 11:34 AM

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QUOTE(speedy3210 @ Nov 15 2020, 09:11 PM)
Dunno about VW, but from what I know thru my cars, alternators have temperature compensation curve for charging. VW Golf being a newer model design should have this feature too.

By limiting its output voltage to 13.7v, I guess the charging system has sensed that the safe charging voltage for your car battery is around that range.
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I dont think its limited based on safe charging voltage. Probably already fully charged on TS's car battery, hence the alternator switched to lower "float" charging voltage.

QUOTE
As with all gelled and sealed units, AGM batteries are sensitive to overcharging. A charge to 2.40V/cell (and higher) is fine; however, the float charge should be reduced to between 2.25 and 2.30V/cell (summer temperatures may require lower voltages). Automotive charging systems for flooded lead acid often have a fixed float voltage setting of 14.40V (2.40V/cell); a direct replacement with a sealed unit could overcharge the battery on a long drive. (See BU-403: Charging Lead Acid.)
Source: AGM Batteries

Hence the reason why VW adjust the alternator charging voltage to suit AGM.
However reading from this another quote:

QUOTE
AGM and other sealed batteries do not like heat and should be installed away from the engine compartment. Manufacturers recommend halting charge if the battery core reaches 49°C (120°F).


Which explains why steady bro 's Golf frequently have a short life. Because the AGM battery is inside the engine compartment unlike BMW or Merc, in the boot.
If it were me, I would had considered going for large size , regular MF or even non-MF battery with a suitable AH and CCA. Like really. Provided it doesn't have that Idle Start Stop system.
I wouldn't like the idea of going through battery replacement every 1.5 years.
Having the battery inside the engine compartment may have suited German's cold country but probably not for tropical country like us.

This post has been edited by SleeplessEyes: Nov 17 2020, 11:37 AM
SleeplessEyes
post Nov 19 2020, 02:37 PM

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QUOTE(mushigen @ Nov 19 2020, 10:26 AM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Are those < RM100 chargers ok or dangerous to use?
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I'm using one now. Foxsur brand. Bought around less than RM 50. No regrets.
Its not dangerous la if you know what precautions to take.
When I first got it, I even used the repair mode, in my personal work space room inside my house.

Whats more dangerous? I've charged small Sealed Lead Acid battery belonging to my dad's house alarm system, and boil the battery till the rubber battery cap pop out. Haha laugh.gif
(Cause the battery didn't like being charged at 14V unlike car battery)
Still working though voltage is less than 12V. Who cares anyway. laugh.gif

Now using it for my Exora.
In fact my charger is left turned on 24 hours, and connected to the car directly , via jump start cables.
it will automatically top up the charge every now and then , when the battery discharge slightly.



SleeplessEyes
post Nov 19 2020, 09:39 PM

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QUOTE(mushigen @ Nov 19 2020, 04:10 PM)
...
My car starts up normally after prolonged disconnection of battery - tested during MCO time when I did that for 3 weeks.
It's more like to reduce sulphate in the cell due to insufficient charging in my case at present situation. I don't foresee using it every week (can't afford to remove the battery from the car to charge in my condo that often), so perhaps I should consider your charger.
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Normally batteries will self discharge even with battery disconnected.
Rule of thumb is not to let it go below 12.4V or else sulphation will start to build.
So yes , you are on the right track on minimizing sulphation .

However should your battery already developed some sulphation, smart battery chargers have battery desulphation mode. Though I must say - Its not some Harry Potter magic.

If your battery haven't gone into heavy cancerous sulphation , then there is chance to remove some . Though there is no 100% guarantee.

And I just found out that the Bosch C3 model does not have desulphation mode. Only the higher end C7 has it. Worse still, my cheaper Foxsur charger has it.


SleeplessEyes
post Nov 20 2020, 02:38 PM

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QUOTE(myahsam @ Nov 20 2020, 10:57 AM)
Did anyone know how to change to mode Regeneration for C7?
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Found it,
Page 6 of 8

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/ima...91eM0Iz4vQS.pdf

Some overly complicated charger.
Its just a mode to charge into 16V for max of 4 hours in the event the battery is completely dead.
SleeplessEyes
post Nov 21 2020, 11:12 AM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Nov 20 2020, 08:09 PM)
Differences between a car that's regularly driven and one that is not and its effects on lead-acid battery's condition.

As promised, this is today's data collected from a car that is hardly used because the owner is in Singapore.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

When another identical car of make and model that is driven regularly is available at 1 year period, its data will be compared against this. 😊
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1 year and only 847KM is driven? shocking.gif . Like a Ferrari.
(yeah I know he's in SG)
Man, he needs a battery charger, and charge once in a while.
BTW, how do u determine the CCA usage? hmm.gif


SleeplessEyes
post Nov 21 2020, 06:06 PM

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QUOTE(dwRK @ Nov 21 2020, 12:40 PM)
to start car?... starter rating usually between 0.8 to 1.0kw, if voltage drop during cranking to 10v, ca required between 240 to 300a

cca is not a usage...it is what is available, and it must be > ca, otherwise your car hard to or wont start

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Actually i was asking how Roman Catholic gets the figure of 20% usage of CCA in his earlier post. Well he answered that already .

I know about the concept of Cold Cranking Amps. In fact we don't need to worry about CCA . there is another measurement called CA . Without the Cold .
Because we are way way above 0 Celcius. And usually CA rating is higher than CCA.

But usually batteries are marked with CCA
Therefore usually CCA rating is < than CA .

This post has been edited by SleeplessEyes: Nov 21 2020, 06:09 PM
SleeplessEyes
post Nov 24 2020, 03:18 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Nov 23 2020, 06:16 PM)
With proper insulation surrounding and protecting the battery, I am not sure if the heat from engine is going to effect it that much because of the great barrier in the insulation.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Since there is differences of heat generated when comparing charging from the alternator against the external charger, I wonder what are the effects of the battery.

These are just some wild thoughts of mine based on my observation thats all.
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I will help answer pcdoctor_my.

heat from engine is going to effect it that much because of the great barrier in the insulation.
- Actually I cant help noticing the plastic will absorb heat from the engine , and heat up the electrolytes inside slightly. thats why some battery manufacturers claim to build thicker cell walls.
BTW, if you take a bright white LED torch light (even handphone can do it), and shine the battery casing, you can see the cell separators even more clearly. Shows how thin the casing is.
Thats why a battery insulator is vital.

the molecules are going to vibrate faster amongst themselves and that its going to generate massive amount of heat energy which produces massive amount gassing.

Vibrate , no , just bubbling on normal charging (no overcharging condition) due to chemical reaction, and even that it may not even produce much gas. Thats the job of the alternator's regulator to correctly apply sufficient amount of voltage and current to charge, but not to boil it.
BTW, I have tried peeking into the cells - Yes , I did, but within a safe distance - while doing battery repair / desulfation mode. There is micro bubbles, but not to the extend of the likes of kettle boiling water.
It charges at a max of 14.8V and alternates between 13-14v every second.
Yes I have overcharged SLA battery (home alarm) and yes, it did boil the heck out of the battery. Battery acid spilled out some. So I took tissue and wiped it off.

Since there is differences of heat generated when comparing charging from the alternator against the external charger, I wonder what are the effects of the battery.

Its not about heat generation bro between alternator and ext charger.
Again, heat is from the engine itself, not the battery. The naked battery casing absorbs the heat, does not generates heat.

Well I hope my explanation clearly outlines the differences.


SleeplessEyes
post Nov 25 2020, 02:58 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Nov 25 2020, 02:14 PM)
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Putting out a polystyrene that is on fire is easier said than done and the jet black smoke that it creates is extremely nauseating.
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Just FYI, my Axia came originally with the battery insulator, thats made out of cardboard.
Not plastic.

So you already have an idea - if cardboard is already a combustible material but Perodua still puts it in, that means its pretty safe inside the engine compartment.

Worst case scenario if you use Polystyrene , it will just melt abit. But I doubt it will melt even.

If you are concern, why not do this: Take a Polystyrene board, small piece.
Put a hot iron on it. See whats the reaction. But for sure it will melt. laugh.gif
SleeplessEyes
post Nov 25 2020, 07:45 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Nov 25 2020, 05:15 PM)
Cardboard ? Not that I don't believe you but in showrooms that I have seen its all some kind of corrugated plastic. I have never seen any cardboard being used. I have ordered Perodua Battery Covers before for clients and its all plastic. If its cardboard, it sounds more like someone dishonest switch your battery cover !

Papers & cardboards are all forbidden to be inside the engine bay area. As they age, they become highly flammable.

Please keep that cardboard cover, when we meet I would like to see that item more closely. 😊
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Bro, dont be over suspicious. Nobody switched my battery cover.
When they install the battery I'm standing right next to the tech, so I'm 100% sure no one switched the battery cover.

To give an idea how it looks,

I will show you the photo:

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Yes you cant feel it by seeing the photo, but , I have cut it slightly to fit my NS60 and can confirm it isn't plastic as you think it was.

abubin,
Yup that's the one I am referring , to show to Roman.
SleeplessEyes
post Nov 26 2020, 12:02 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Nov 26 2020, 08:16 AM)
In a nutshell,
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

So tests has to be done to determine which is which, in order that appropriate action could be taken to address the problem with heat affecting the battery's capacity.

I've just found out that it is called polypropylene corrugated plastic.
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Thanks for clarifying the proper word - polypropylene corrugated plastic thumbsup.gif

To answer question 1: - Yes, the plastic casing is absorbing the heat, if without the battery insulator cover.

Answer to Question 2: It will not block 100% of the heat, unless its totally wrap around.

Take a look at this classic Merc W124 E class. See where the battery is. Its in the engine bay but its separated by the firewall.

https://cdn4.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/...s_med/pic01.jpg

This post has been edited by SleeplessEyes: Nov 26 2020, 12:13 PM
SleeplessEyes
post Nov 26 2020, 01:17 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Nov 26 2020, 12:36 PM)
No worries bro.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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Let me share mine:

Perodua Axia - Installed around June 2020. NS60L
Not driven for 1 day , battery voltage dropped to 12.4V.
So this one is really cold start. No attempts to try starting the engine

So I took proactive measures, by plugging external charger.
Charging to full status takes only 15 mins. Which means its fine. So I left it to do its float charging.
Charger fan turns on and off every now and then during float charging - Which means battery is fully charged.

This morning 8am , took it off the charger, and rechecked the voltage at around 11am, its steady at 12.7V thumbup.gif
Car not driven at all for 2nd day.
- > I dont know if you count this as cold start, as I follow theory of removing surface charge: After charging, wait for surface charge to discharge first, either few hours or turning on headlight.

This post has been edited by SleeplessEyes: Nov 26 2020, 01:18 PM
SleeplessEyes
post Dec 10 2020, 11:44 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Dec 10 2020, 01:06 PM)
WEAK BATTERY
Will the continued usage of a weak battery like jump-starting an old battery every now and then, eventually lead to a premature failure of the Starter or an Alternator or any other parts worth mentioning ?

I have a friend who thinks that its worth the effort taking off me used batteries to be used, despite me telling him it's a futile effort. Any answer to a premature failure of whichever part is the only hope that I have, for the message to really sink in.

TQ yall.
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This part highlighted in red - I dont get what you mean.

But to answer your question , this video will answer your Alternator worries:
This is by Jason of Engineering Explained
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Very good tests he made.

Okay if you want his opinion without watching the full tests, - click here : https://youtu.be/5ZNt241DplQ?t=520
Or even here - https://youtu.be/5ZNt241DplQ (the last few mins)

It will jump to his point of view.
So yes, his recommendation - If you have a weak battery, use an external battery charger first. Before and after.

This post has been edited by SleeplessEyes: Dec 10 2020, 11:49 PM
SleeplessEyes
post Dec 11 2020, 11:20 AM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Dec 11 2020, 12:59 AM)
Thanks bro.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


He better stop asking me for another dead battery again. Takda kerja lain ka ? LOL
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If your customer can do like this person restoring batteries I will salute him.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Oh well sometimes some people are quite stubborn. You did your best in advising what's good and what's not good for him. But if he refuses to listen then he will have to hit the wall and learn the hard & expensive way.
I think he is trying to save money on buying new batteries.

Heck if he were to be in Klang Valley area there are some seller selling second hand / used working batteries. Not dead batteries. For RM 50 onwards. That will be good for those like him having a charger.
SleeplessEyes
post Dec 22 2020, 05:25 PM

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QUOTE(n0th1n @ Dec 22 2020, 05:07 PM)
and why the code name have MF, indicating it's a maintenance-free battery right? why has that liquid acid top-up cover?
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Contrary to many believe MF = Dry battery / Battery kering
Actually its a man made, localized term , only god knows who and why Malaysians call it battery kering.

The truth is: Both MF and Non MF have liquid. So yes, usually the top cover is covered by a sticker. (But some are even totally covered by hard plastic, needing to drill a hole )
Usually MF battery recycles its acid liquid, by the top cover design, hence the term = Maintenance free.

This post has been edited by SleeplessEyes: Dec 22 2020, 05:25 PM
SleeplessEyes
post Dec 23 2020, 12:02 PM

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QUOTE(scorgio @ Dec 23 2020, 09:53 AM)
CTEK & Bosch C7 is good for trickle charging the battery.

To me, it's better to get a battery analyser + a normal battery charger (both at RM100 each). I'm also driving a diesel SUV on wet N70Z battery, last me 3 years, could go on longer. I plug it onto the charger every 6 mths.
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I'm using Foxsur on my Exora . Its plug in almost daily because its not been driven daily.
I bought mine for Rm 45 after discount. So it does give me assurance that my battery is fully charged and ready for the day, the moment I take off the charger.

For my other car - Axia which is driven daily, once in a while I do plug in to fully charge it. Kinda kiasu laugh.gif .

BTW, I dont have a battery analyzer. Only use my trusty multimeter to check its voltage (and even that Foxsur battery charger has a battery voltage and percentage indicator)
SleeplessEyes
post Jan 31 2021, 12:37 PM

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QUOTE(alexei @ Jan 31 2021, 09:26 AM)
I think the compensation charging is the one that caused AGM plate to wear out faster, and killed it.

AGM needs higher voltage to charge, and the car charger is only able to keep it at around 75%.
There's probably nothing wrong to continue using an AGM at that state of charge, but topping it off monthly might be a bad idea. My bike uses AGM, and is only 12.4V float charge. So far so good.
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Haha, if my Exora, which rarely runs, the charger is plugged in all the time, but it wont charge continuously 24/7. Its just using regular non MF battery.
It will auto top off the battery when it runs down below 13.4V. So its floating charge is around there.
So far, if its off the charger more than 6 hours it still can retain the voltage at 12.5V.

Now its already past 30 months mark. Another 6 more months to go to reach 36 months.
I believe charging till full mark, reduces the "discharge depth" to prolong (or maintain) its lifespan.

Jason of Engineering Explain shared this video
Can a Dead Battery ruin an Alternator

Which shows the difference between being (attempted) fully charge by alternator vs plug into a battery charger. Its not the alternator amps I am interested (though relevant). Its how much a battery charger needs to put back into a weak (or normally used) battery vs alternator charging back
SleeplessEyes
post Feb 1 2021, 02:36 PM

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QUOTE(alexei @ Jan 31 2021, 08:59 PM)
SleeplessEyesHave you need to add water so far?
After 6 hours and reduced to 12.5V, I think the battery is quite weak already.
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Hi alexei, about adding water.
it drop very slight. Still within the Low and High mark.

based on your chart alone, 12.5V for 90% is acceptable.
Rule of thumb is - Anything below 12.4V then needs to be a concern.

Honestly I've seen some videos of BMWs with even 12.1V (if I recall) and they still startup though recommended to replace.
BMWs are more fussy because of their IBS (Intelligennt Battery Sensor)
SleeplessEyes
post Mar 1 2021, 11:20 AM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Mar 1 2021, 11:02 AM)
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I always believe that recharging will reduce discharge depth & keep the battery in high state of charge = which in turns will extend the battery life. But this is only noticeble if one were to drive really short distance and leave the car not running for days & weeks.

One time on my parent's HRV - my mom accidentally left the keys in the igntion (in the car porch) and this causes the "auto headlamp" to be turned on for half an hour. Note that these cars have "Come home" light when engine is turned off. To disable it , have to leave it in "Manual" headlamp mode. No "Off" mode.
But fortunately it was the small headlamp (not small light bulb) which came on.

So I quickly took my battery charger, it was showing 12.5V before charging. Unknown how much was discharged.
Charged it for a good 45 mins , its though not a fully charged process, because we wanted to use the car again. Drove the car, came back, waited for 30 mins, test the voltage - surprised it was at 12.9V. So all is good. (Note: This is Not an AGM battery. Just MF NS60 battery)

However - I got nagging from my mom , asking me why did I charge the battery when the headlamp was turned on. She just say - "Aiyah, I just start the engine, drive and it will be fine lah. Why so complicated do "this" and "that" (refering to the external charging process). If battery weak, I go back to Honda lah " doh.gif
(Sigh, old folks. Cant trust a son what he is doing. I just saved her from any unwanted reduce battery life)

This post has been edited by SleeplessEyes: Mar 1 2021, 11:22 AM
SleeplessEyes
post Mar 5 2021, 01:28 PM

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Roman Catholic bro, just asking your opinion.

If let's say I need to wait for my son / daughter for 30 mins, then during this few Time I start engine , idle for few minutes maybe like 10 mins, stop engine, repeat several times do you think it's still alright for the battery.
Turn on engine just for aircond..but you know la..off engine to save petrol, even though mine is Axia 1000cc

Well unfortunately mine is not EFB just regular non MF NS60.
How I wish mine is hybrid. Run the aircond from battery.

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