Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

> Singapork say Anthony Loke penipu scammer, So how?

views
     
TSdeodorant
post Dec 13 2018, 10:18 AM, updated 11 months ago

Surfing LYN instead of Working.
*******
Senior Member
5,654 posts

Joined: Mar 2006


So who correct now, Anthony Loke or Singapork MoT?

https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/expla..._13122018_today

Basically SG said that all along:
- Flight path doesn't affect any existing structure also, and
- Malaysia bagi tau je whenever got plans to build higher structures then SG will adjust the flight path accordingly.

QUOTE

What the video says: Structures 3km away from Seletar Airport cannot be built higher than 54m, while structures 6km away from Seletar cannot be built more than 145m. A mobile crane at 103m will breach the height limits and there are also other tall buildings in Johor.

What the facts are: The safety height buffer at the 3km mark is 93.8m, and at the 6km mark, it is 198.1m. This means the height of structures cannot exceed those figures.

Right now, the tallest structure in Pasir Gudang is 105m tall and is located 3.6km from Seletar Airport. So, it falls under the 198.1m height restriction. These height restrictions can be further adjusted if required .

Additional points:
- Edge of pasir gudang is 2.5km from edge of runway, which implies safety height buffer of 78.1m.
- Current ILS glide slope is 3.5deg. In comparison, London City Airport glide slope is 5.5deg.
- If Singapork increase glide slope to 5.5deg then height buffer is 123.0m @ 2.5km, 148.1m @ 3km, and 296.3m @ 6km
TSdeodorant
post Dec 13 2018, 10:34 AM

Surfing LYN instead of Working.
*******
Senior Member
5,654 posts

Joined: Mar 2006


QUOTE(viole @ Dec 13 2018, 10:20 AM)
Wait, even if height doesnt matter, the air space still under ours? Or theirs?

Our airspace but we outsourced to SG ATC to manage, which is not unusual around the world.

Basically ICAO divides the world into many FIRs (Flight Information Region), and each FIR is managed by only one country's ATC even if that FIR covers multiple countries.

As one example, Qatari airspace falls in the Bahrain FIR.
TSdeodorant
post Dec 13 2018, 10:36 AM

Surfing LYN instead of Working.
*******
Senior Member
5,654 posts

Joined: Mar 2006


QUOTE(Aparaa @ Dec 13 2018, 10:32 AM)
It doesn't matter. We don't want them to fly through our airspace freely and taking control of it until forever..
You do know that "them" (for commercial traffic) is actually only our FireFly's turboprop planes, right?

And you do know that hundreds of flights between Changi and Europe fly over peninsula Malaysia, right?

This post has been edited by deodorant: Dec 13 2018, 10:37 AM
TSdeodorant
post Dec 13 2018, 10:44 AM

Surfing LYN instead of Working.
*******
Senior Member
5,654 posts

Joined: Mar 2006


QUOTE(otakotak @ Dec 13 2018, 10:24 AM)
put toll in the air..
oh.. wai

QUOTE(amidamaru @ Dec 13 2018, 10:26 AM)
Still using malaysia airspace. Dont gibap our MOT

QUOTE(pineapplegrenade @ Dec 13 2018, 10:29 AM)
Nah. No deal. Use their own airspace.

Uhh, but putting aside this landing issue. Basically ALL flights from SG to middle east and Europe fly over peninsula Malaysia (ie they use Malaysia airspace). Malaysia charges overflight fees to the airlines so its not like we get nothing out of it.
TSdeodorant
post Dec 13 2018, 10:50 AM

Surfing LYN instead of Working.
*******
Senior Member
5,654 posts

Joined: Mar 2006


QUOTE(jaycee1 @ Dec 13 2018, 10:44 AM)
Let singkipor planes approach from thier airspace. Why fly over Pasir Gudang?

My Vietnam Saigon office is directly under the Tan Son Nhat approach flight path a few hundred metres from the runway....and they fly over at only a few hundred feet. Rattles the windows each time a plane comes in for landing.

Few hundred metres a bit different than the 2.5 km distance between seletar and pasir gudang. If you see the 3.5deg ILS guide slope, at this 2.5km mark planes will be generally 150m above, which isn't that bad.

Furthermore, airplanes are most efficient when taking off and landing against the wind. Forcing seletar to use only a single direction makes planes less efficient half the year when they have to land or take off with the wind.

Finally, planes coming from the North need to fly a bigger loop to the south before landing from the south.

And since Firefly is the only airline planned for seletar, we kecoh kecoh kecoh in the end our own airline is the one that suffers.

TSdeodorant
post Dec 13 2018, 10:55 AM

Surfing LYN instead of Working.
*******
Senior Member
5,654 posts

Joined: Mar 2006


QUOTE(galkelly @ Dec 13 2018, 10:45 AM)
They still wanna screw us after the water deal.
Go to hell la sg

But they also bent over backwards to help us postpone HSR. Just as we are (probably) fully within our rights to ask SG to GTFO with their seletar ILS, they were also fully within their rights to ask us pay that 500m or whatever it was compensation. No?
TSdeodorant
post Dec 13 2018, 10:58 AM

Surfing LYN instead of Working.
*******
Senior Member
5,654 posts

Joined: Mar 2006


QUOTE(bananajoe @ Dec 13 2018, 10:50 AM)
First of all, Once this ILS was agreed and implemented, Malaysia will need TO GET APPROVAL from SINGAPORE and ICAA before building any tall structure in future.

I think that's an interesting and key point, and one which I'm not sure what the reality is. Will we NEED to get approval, or will we just need to inform them then they have to ownself no choice increase the glide angle to compensate?
TSdeodorant
post Dec 13 2018, 11:02 AM

Surfing LYN instead of Working.
*******
Senior Member
5,654 posts

Joined: Mar 2006


QUOTE(fuzzy @ Dec 13 2018, 10:58 AM)
They can't operate Selatar so having a white elephant airport is a bigger lost than the lost of a route.

Seletar airport was built in 1928 so it's not like SG really needs it. The only reason they wanted to open seletar to commercial traffic is to free up changi landing slots and berths to bigger planes, and move FireFly's smaller turboprops to seletar.

Let's say we bantah successfully, the end result is that SG just goes back to status quo and withdraws the ILS for seletar, but still tells firefly to GTFO anyway. Net loss for us.
TSdeodorant
post Dec 13 2018, 11:04 AM

Surfing LYN instead of Working.
*******
Senior Member
5,654 posts

Joined: Mar 2006


QUOTE(Aparaa @ Dec 13 2018, 11:01 AM)
You are a S'porean. Stop pretending

I am Malaysian, but I have personal interest in supporting seletar because its 5min drive from my place so I got easy journey to airport to take firefly back to KL 🤣

But having said that, my point here is that SG and MY - - are we allies or are we enemies? If we are friends then is there anything wrong with rationally standing in the middle and agreeing to give and take with each other if it doesn't really affect us much?

This post has been edited by deodorant: Dec 13 2018, 11:05 AM
TSdeodorant
post Dec 13 2018, 11:21 AM

Surfing LYN instead of Working.
*******
Senior Member
5,654 posts

Joined: Mar 2006


QUOTE(Mai189 @ Dec 13 2018, 11:14 AM)
What area of the airspace are they talking about?
Is air space (as shouted about by Mr Loke) and FIR the same? 

There is a small overlap over pasir gudang area that falls under the SG FIR but is actually Malaysian airspace. If Malaysia wants to take back the airspace I guess it means ICAO needs to adjust the boundary between the Malaysia and Singapore FIRs.
TSdeodorant
post Dec 13 2018, 11:27 AM

Surfing LYN instead of Working.
*******
Senior Member
5,654 posts

Joined: Mar 2006


QUOTE(AyamBlend @ Dec 13 2018, 11:20 AM)
/k was true
getting more sinkie people in forum now

The point in this thread is only to get the facts straight. Anthony Loke say 58m is height limit, SG say no you wrong it is actually 100+m and can be adjusted upwards if needed.

Once we know the facts then we decide how to bantah, don't just bantah blindly.

If the height limits really don't affect anticipated developments in pasir gudang, then do we really need to bantah so hard? Could there be another mutually acceptable give and take?

For example just allow the ILS but then issue gazette kasi increase kau kau the overflight fees that we charge for planes using pasir gudang airspace, win-win liao.
TSdeodorant
post Dec 13 2018, 11:47 AM

Surfing LYN instead of Working.
*******
Senior Member
5,654 posts

Joined: Mar 2006


QUOTE(Learjet35 @ Dec 13 2018, 11:41 AM)
Cannot charge kaw kaw, coz the airline will be using one of it is firefly, malindo might follow up.
So in the end we bantah our own airplanes flying over our own area?
TSdeodorant
post Dec 13 2018, 12:03 PM

Surfing LYN instead of Working.
*******
Senior Member
5,654 posts

Joined: Mar 2006


QUOTE(Mickey B @ Dec 13 2018, 11:52 AM)
They should be the ones asking nicely, not making demands.
Well if you believe their version of events, they did ask us nicely since a year ago and we never said anything 🤷🏻‍♂️
TSdeodorant
post Dec 13 2018, 12:16 PM

Surfing LYN instead of Working.
*******
Senior Member
5,654 posts

Joined: Mar 2006


QUOTE(ThanatosSwiftfire @ Dec 13 2018, 12:07 PM)
silence is consent hor. have to impose restriction, that malaysia have to execute, but a "silence is consent" is good enough.

No lah I'm not arguing that silence is consent. Just saying that it's not like singapore sprang this on us out of the blue, they actually tried to engage us a year ago then we never bantah so they assumed that we are OK.
TSdeodorant
post Dec 13 2018, 01:56 PM

Surfing LYN instead of Working.
*******
Senior Member
5,654 posts

Joined: Mar 2006


QUOTE(shadow_walker @ Dec 13 2018, 01:40 PM)
thats the stupidest ever reason...lor

nobody ever does anything without official letters or notifications. doesnt matter whether private or government...lolz

Well, the thing is that even without the ILS, singapore was managing that airspace, and private planes have been approaching over pasir gudang for literally decades liao and Malaysia nv had any problems with it.

Then a year ago SG says oh hi Malaysia, this arrangement that we have for the last 20 years, I wanna extend it to commercial air traffic too, you OK right?

Then fast forward another year and just before SG publishes the ILS then only we bantah. They probably also like dafug why you never bantah earlier? Some more we been announcing the opening of seletar airport and the moving of firefly there for many months before this.

Of course when we bantah they should have cancelled the plans to formally publish the ILS, but our side we also should have bantah way earlier.
TSdeodorant
post Dec 13 2018, 02:03 PM

Surfing LYN instead of Working.
*******
Senior Member
5,654 posts

Joined: Mar 2006


QUOTE(teehk_tee @ Dec 13 2018, 02:00 PM)
Delays at MY CIQ - hardly except long weekends in SG
Last last weekend i drive into tuas, Malaysia side sangkut 1.5hrs cos they only opened 6 immigration counters. Cross bridge go SG side no queue at all.
TSdeodorant
post Dec 13 2018, 02:10 PM

Surfing LYN instead of Working.
*******
Senior Member
5,654 posts

Joined: Mar 2006


QUOTE(tikaram @ Dec 13 2018, 02:05 PM)
Actually malaysia never said no to selectar airport commercial.

Just that we want  Singapore to cancel the publised of ILS that eating Johor

Maybe it would be good to have someone in aviation industry to chip in. Is ILS mandatory for launching commercial operations? Does it mean that without ILS the runway will be no go every time there is heavy rain or low clouds?
TSdeodorant
post Dec 13 2018, 02:11 PM

Surfing LYN instead of Working.
*******
Senior Member
5,654 posts

Joined: Mar 2006


QUOTE(ahchun @ Dec 13 2018, 02:07 PM)
indeed
why they sound like we need to agree to them

Because we DID agree to them many many many years ago (with ICAO) when we allowed them to manage that part of our airspace.
TSdeodorant
post Dec 13 2018, 02:14 PM

Surfing LYN instead of Working.
*******
Senior Member
5,654 posts

Joined: Mar 2006


QUOTE(Artak @ Dec 13 2018, 02:12 PM)
after watching so maany series of gundam, i wonder why the world still hasnt started on developing catapult technology and we still requires runway...

It is cost constraints rather than technological ones. Catapults and arresting cables been available for decades liao on carriers, so technology is there to adapt to passenger planes.

However the cost of strengthening/adapting airplanes, passengers, airport runways etc is presumably much more expensive than to just build a longer runway, so nobody does it.
TSdeodorant
post Dec 14 2018, 09:32 AM

Surfing LYN instead of Working.
*******
Senior Member
5,654 posts

Joined: Mar 2006


QUOTE(rauma @ Dec 14 2018, 02:13 AM)
Imagine your neighbor tells you what you can or cannot do in your own lawn. Normal people would already beat up that neighbor.

This case a bit different though, this case is you already agreed with your neighbour decades ago.

Taking an analogy from another thread, 20 years ago your brother's neigbour grew a fruit tree at the edge of his lawn, and the branches intruded over your brother's lawn. That time your side of the lawn only got a dog house so your bro and your neigbour both verbally agreed to let the tree be since it doesn't affect him anyway. Along the years your neighbour told your bro "but if you have plans to remodel the lawn let me know and I'll prune my tree."

One year ago your neighbour then decided that he wanted to put this arrangement on paper so he sent your brother a letter and said "let's formalize our arrangement that is in place for all these years OK? " but your bro no reply for many months.

Then a few months ago your bro sold the house to you and you moved in, then your neighbour went to paste that letter on the fence for anyone who walked by to read.

Now of course you are justified to be upset with your neighbour, after all who knows in the future you want to demolish the dog house and build a swing set or monkey bar in its place, and you would totally be within your rights to tell your neighbour gtfo and prune off all those branches over your fence.

But if you put yourself in your neighbour shoes, your neighbour had the arrangement in place with your brother for decades, its not like you move in then only (s)he tried to play punk. And some more your neigbour also told you that "if you have plans to remodel the lawn let me know and I'll prune my tree."

This post has been edited by deodorant: Dec 14 2018, 09:33 AM

2 Pages  1 2 >Top
 

Switch to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0445sec    4.00    6 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 14th October 2019 - 03:49 PM