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 86 Mac Plus Vs 07 AMD DualCore! Unbelievable!

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TSFlex
post Jun 1 2007, 07:38 AM, updated 19y ago

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Conclusion

Check out the results! For the functions that people use most often, the 1986 vintage Mac Plus beats the 2007 AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+: 9 tests to 8! Out of the 17 tests, the antique Mac won 53% of the time! Including a jaw-dropping 52 second whipping of the AMD from the time the Power button is pushed to the time the Desktop is up and useable.

We also didn't want to overly embarrass the AMD by comparing the time it takes to install the OS vs. the old Mac. The Mac's average of about a minute is dwarfed by the approximately one hour install time of Windows XP Pro.


Is this to say that the Mac Plus is a better computer than the AMD? Of course not. The technological advancements of 21 years have placed modern PCs in a completely different league of varied capacities. But the "User Experience" has not changed much in two decades. Due to bloated code that has to incorporate hundreds of functions that average users don't even know exist, let alone ever utilize, the software companies have weighed down our PCs to effectively neutralize their vast speed advantages. When we compare strictly common, everyday, basic user tasks between the Mac Plus and the AMD we find remarkable similarities in overall speed, thus it can be stated that for the majority of simple office uses, the massive advances in technology in the past two decades have brought zero advance in productivity.

And that's just plain crazy.


Here's the link to the full article : http://hubpages.com/hub/_86_Mac_Plus_Vs_07_AMD_DualCore_You_Wont_Believe_Who_Wins

This post has been edited by Flex: Jun 1 2007, 08:03 AM
toughnut
post Jun 1 2007, 08:42 AM

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totally bull...
they should install windows 3 on amd X2. this test probably made by those who can't face improvement or just Mac fanboy.

btw, even normal PDA can beat that Mac.
SUSdattebayo
post Jun 1 2007, 09:46 AM

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"User Experience" has not changed much in two decades.?

he can use back windows 3.1 instead, which using 8.3 character file name, listening to game Midi and watch video in the earliest generation of avi. Big LCD should be dumped and use 14" CRT is enough for VGA/SVGA resolution. Back then people used computer to work and only work, its the time before the introduction of multimedia capabilities in a PC, even for basic user experience, its better to use MS Office 07 with bigger monitor than the older DOS version rite? sweat.gif

This post has been edited by dattebayo: Jun 1 2007, 09:49 AM
irenic
post Jun 1 2007, 09:58 AM

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i think what it meant is eventhough the modern pc is damn powerful, but the software developer has create applications that burden our pc.. and that makes the difference is zero..

11 years ago, pc is slow, but application is so light..

today, pc is damn fast, but application is so heavy..

so we cant really feel the power of our pc due to heavy applications..

thats what i understand la.. sorry if i'm wrong.
SUSdattebayo
post Jun 1 2007, 10:36 AM

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why not? 10 yrs ago, a PC will need an Mpeg1 decoder card to play VCD properly, CPU 10 yrs ago can't even handle simple VCD compression, all Pentium 2 and 3 will sluggish when dealing with divx/h264 files, we can indeed feel the performance increment in multimedia intensive applications, who will revert to IE4.0 when it can't render LYN front page properly.
toughnut
post Jun 1 2007, 10:52 AM

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that mac won't even render doom proper lol
yes, apps today mostly bloated with lots of unnecessary functions we don't even know it exist. try MS office 07. i don't even utilised 10% of its full capabilities. the only diff to me between 2000 and 07 version is the GUI lol
kmarc
post Jun 1 2007, 10:56 AM

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I can't imagine why anyone in his right mind would want to do such comparisons? For god's sake, what productivity is he talking about? The differences were less than a second!!! doh.gif doh.gif doh.gif doh.gif doh.gif

For argument sake, look at the benckmarks. He included launch app, find/replace, open, paste, arrange, format, fill bla bla bla..... Most of the functions were completed in less than 2 seconds. How much more productive do you want it to be???? To complete a function in 0.01 seconds??!!??!!

BTW, I guess the new mac is so productive that it does everything <0.1s? Which does nothing to the normal user as our reaction time is not that great either!!!

Furthermore, the tests were performed on only one single app opened! Try adding a firewall, a RTS anti-virus, anti-spyware, Bittorrent and folding. rclxub.gif rclxub.gif rclxub.gif

I mean, just to compare these basic functions is pointless. Why are we even discussing this???? rclxub.gif rclxub.gif rclxub.gif
arjuna_mfna
post Jun 1 2007, 11:52 AM

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look the person who wrote this article out of date lo...

try take both pc run win xp, see which one more faster...


rifle_m16
post Jun 1 2007, 01:04 PM

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QUOTE(Flex @ Jun 1 2007, 08:38 AM)
Conclusion

Check out the results! For the functions that people use most often, the 1986 vintage Mac Plus beats the 2007 AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+: 9 tests to 8! Out of the 17 tests, the antique Mac won 53% of the time! Including a jaw-dropping 52 second whipping of the AMD from the time the Power button is pushed to the time the Desktop is up and useable.

We also didn't want to overly embarrass the AMD by comparing the time it takes to install the OS vs. the old Mac. The Mac's average of about a minute is dwarfed by the approximately one hour install time of Windows XP Pro.
Is this to say that the Mac Plus is a better computer than the AMD? Of course not. The technological advancements of 21 years have placed modern PCs in a completely different league of varied capacities. But the "User Experience" has not changed much in two decades. Due to bloated code that has to incorporate hundreds of functions that average users don't even know exist, let alone ever utilize, the software companies have weighed down our PCs to effectively neutralize their vast speed advantages. When we compare strictly common, everyday, basic user tasks between the Mac Plus and the AMD we find remarkable similarities in overall speed, thus it can be stated that for the majority of simple office uses, the massive advances in technology in the past two decades have brought zero advance in productivity.

And that's just plain crazy.
Here's the link to the full article :  http://hubpages.com/hub/_86_Mac_Plus_Vs_07_AMD_DualCore_You_Wont_Believe_Who_Wins
*
What a joke.. Irrelevant comparison and conclusion..

I bet the writer never heard of multitasking. laugh.gif
t3chn0m4nc3r
post Jun 2 2007, 07:09 PM

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i dunno anything bout MAC but MAC wif same standard price as X86 PC compare the diff very far meh...? blink.gif
edwin3210
post Jun 3 2007, 12:24 AM

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QUOTE(Flex @ Jun 1 2007, 07:38 AM)
Conclusion

Check out the results! For the functions that people use most often, the 1986 vintage Mac Plus beats the 2007 AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+: 9 tests to 8! Out of the 17 tests, the antique Mac won 53% of the time! Including a jaw-dropping 52 second whipping of the AMD from the time the Power button is pushed to the time the Desktop is up and useable.

We also didn't want to overly embarrass the AMD by comparing the time it takes to install the OS vs. the old Mac. The Mac's average of about a minute is dwarfed by the approximately one hour install time of Windows XP Pro.
Is this to say that the Mac Plus is a better computer than the AMD? Of course not. The technological advancements of 21 years have placed modern PCs in a completely different league of varied capacities. But the "User Experience" has not changed much in two decades. Due to bloated code that has to incorporate hundreds of functions that average users don't even know exist, let alone ever utilize, the software companies have weighed down our PCs to effectively neutralize their vast speed advantages. When we compare strictly common, everyday, basic user tasks between the Mac Plus and the AMD we find remarkable similarities in overall speed, thus it can be stated that for the majority of simple office uses, the massive advances in technology in the past two decades have brought zero advance in productivity.

And that's just plain crazy.
Here's the link to the full article :  http://hubpages.com/hub/_86_Mac_Plus_Vs_07_AMD_DualCore_You_Wont_Believe_Who_Wins
*
guess what? im using MAc os on my AMD machine doh.gif

anyone who read this article and decide to get this Mac is an idiot. and this article is nothing but a bull shit.
Turnip
post Jun 3 2007, 12:28 AM

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irenic
post Jun 3 2007, 03:27 AM

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yeah it's a stupid comparison but just look at what he was trying to say ..
baok
post Jun 3 2007, 08:08 AM

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QUOTE(rifle_m16 @ Jun 1 2007, 01:04 PM)
What a joke.. Irrelevant comparison and conclusion..

I bet the writer never heard of multitasking. laugh.gif
*
no.. the writer surely knows what he wrote.. smile.gif
a1098113
post Jun 3 2007, 09:45 AM

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firstly a dual core against a single core... well thats obvious. And secondly though dual cores might have a few disadvantages over a single core chip, still a vintage 1987 Mac is no where near a 4800+ if maybe there is a competition between p4 3.73 extreme edition and 4800+, then probably in certain ways, the amd would have lost.

Well i read about certain disadvantages of a dual core setup and in main points this is probably it

QUOTE

In addition to operating system (OS) support, adjustments to existing software are required to maximize utilization of the computing resources provided by multi-core processors. Also, the ability of multi-core processors to increase application performance depends on the use of multiple threads within applications. For example, most current (as of 2006) video games will run faster on a 3 GHz single-core processor than on a 2GHz dual-core processor (of the same core architecture), despite the dual-core theoretically having more processing power, because they are incapable of efficiently using more than one core at a time. The situation is improving: for example the American video game developer Valve Corporation have stated that they will use multi core optimizations for the next version of their Source engine, shipped with Half-Life 2: Episode Two, the next installment of their Half-Life franchise.[1][2] See Dynamic Acceleration Technology for the Santa Rosa platform for an example of a technique to improve single-thread performance on dual-core processors.

Integration of a multi-core chip drives production yields down and they are more difficult to manage thermally than lower-density single-chip designs. From an architectural point of view, ultimately, single CPU designs may make better use of the silicon surface area than multiprocessing cores, so a development commitment to this architecture may carry the risk of obsolescence. Finally, raw processing power is not the only constraint on system performance. Two processing cores sharing the same system bus and memory bandwidth limits the real-world performance advantage. If a single core is close to being memory bandwidth limited, going to dual-core might only give 30% to 70% improvement. If memory bandwidth is not a problem, a 90% improvement can be expected. It would be possible for an application that used 2 CPUs to end up running faster on one dual-core if communication between the CPUs was the limiting factor, which would count as more than 100% improvement.
A thought to ponder.
SUSjoe_star
post Jun 3 2007, 10:08 AM

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I dont think the original author is trying to say that an 86 mac plus is better than a x2 4800+. Thats just stupid. What I do believe he'z trying to say is that the simple functions(eg. in word processing) that people use are still the same but due to the extra code added in the OS and programs etc, take longer now with newer comps. I noticed this myself while switching from a x2 3800+ 2GB system to a P3 500Mhz with 64MB ram. Sure the P3 had to be run with win98 and it could hardly run more than 2 programs at once but for simple tasks(like the ones mentioned here), I had about the same responsiveness from the P3 system as I had from my dual core rig. Just my 2 cents about this topic.
kmarc
post Jun 3 2007, 10:16 AM

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QUOTE(joe_star @ Jun 3 2007, 10:08 AM)
I dont think the original author is trying to say that an 86 mac plus is better than a x2 4800+. Thats just stupid. What I do believe he'z trying to say is that the simple functions(eg. in word processing) that people use are still the same but due to the extra code added in the OS and programs etc, take longer now with newer comps. I noticed this myself while switching from a x2 3800+ 2GB system to a P3 500Mhz with 64MB ram. Sure the P3 had to be run with win98 and it could hardly run more than 2 programs at once but for simple tasks(like the ones mentioned here), I had about the same responsiveness from the P3 system as I had from my dual core rig. Just my 2 cents about this topic.
*
That's definitely true. Software nowadays comes with so many functions and has to load so many codes e.g. APIs that they are slightly slower.

However, this does not mean that productivity is reduced!!!

If the author really want a comparison, somebody could just write a simple software for dual-core that does all the function that he compared. Probably just need a few lines of codes anyway...... Then, we can assess whether it is slower. Anyway, what's the point, the differences is too insignificant!
a1098113
post Jun 3 2007, 10:17 AM

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QUOTE(joe_star @ Jun 3 2007, 10:08 AM)
I dont think the original author is trying to say that an 86 mac plus is better than a x2 4800+. Thats just stupid. What I do believe he'z trying to say is that the simple functions(eg. in word processing) that people use are still the same but due to the extra code added in the OS and programs etc, take longer now with newer comps. I noticed this myself while switching from a x2 3800+ 2GB system to a P3 500Mhz with 64MB ram. Sure the P3 had to be run with win98 and it could hardly run more than 2 programs at once but for simple tasks(like the ones mentioned here), I had about the same responsiveness from the P3 system as I had from my dual core rig. Just my 2 cents about this topic.
*
I think looking at it in a holistic point of view... its just the same theory of software/hardware demand trend. I was discussing this with my dad yesterday and we came up with the conclusion that, processors are getting more powerful due to the demand of the software and os. But at the end of the day, its just the same equlity. Maybe the strength of the x2 4800 can be truly shown if the os used by it is a win98 or win2000. then it would conjure up some serious firepower. But having to deal with what vista or xp has to offer is a comparative relation with what the an older comp has to deal with their respective os during thier time.

On another note, my dad uses a P3 850 with 192MB ram, and it handles windows xp professional fairly alright. Only that the load for starting up and the time taken is long but otherwise its good. But like i quoted above, its a really good thing to know how a dual core really works and whether a single chip can beat it in certain apps.
ikanayam
post Jun 3 2007, 11:09 AM

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QUOTE(a1098113 @ Jun 2 2007, 08:45 PM)
firstly a dual core against a single core... well thats obvious. And secondly though dual cores might have a few disadvantages over a single core chip, still a vintage 1987 Mac is no where near a 4800+ if maybe there is a competition between p4 3.73 extreme edition and 4800+, then probably in certain ways, the amd would have lost.

Well i read about certain disadvantages of a dual core setup and in main points this is probably it
A thought to ponder.
*
There are many assumptions which are not clearly defined in the wikipedia article you quoted about multicores, i will number them as follows:
QUOTE
1. Integration of a multi-core chip drives production yields down and
2. they are more difficult to manage thermally than lower-density single-chip designs.
3. From an architectural point of view, ultimately, single CPU designs may make better use of the silicon surface area than multiprocessing cores, so a development commitment to this architecture may carry the risk of obsolescence.
4. Finally, raw processing power is not the only constraint on system performance. Two processing cores sharing the same system bus and memory bandwidth limits the real-world performance advantage. If a single core is close to being memory bandwidth limited, going to dual-core might only give 30% to 70% improvement. If memory bandwidth is not a problem, a 90% improvement can be expected. It would be possible for an application that used 2 CPUs to end up running faster on one dual-core if communication between the CPUs was the limiting factor, which would count as more than 100% improvement.

1. True if the size of each core in the multicore chip is the same as the single core chip. If you have a few smaller cores, this is not the case, and it may even be the opposite if you can disable one or more defective cores.

2. Completely wrong. Single cores are generally clocked higher, which means power/thermal density (W/mm²) is higher than say 2 similar cores clocked at half the speed.

3. How fast/wide can you make a single core? Especially for an ISA like x86? You get diminishing returns. Complexity tends to grow exponentially with the increase in speed/width.

4. I don't think memory bandwidth is a limitation in the vast majority of applications. L1 cache hit rates are >90% (>95% even i think) in modern CPUs. L2 will catch much of the rest. Only in certain massively streaming parallel processing applications will you be memory bandwidth limited, but then those tend to be processing heavy as well, so you are probably processing power limited before that.

This post has been edited by ikanayam: Jun 3 2007, 11:09 AM
a1098113
post Jun 3 2007, 11:21 AM

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QUOTE(ikanayam @ Jun 3 2007, 11:09 AM)
There are many assumptions which are not clearly defined in the wikipedia article you quoted about multicores, i will number them as follows:

1. True if the size of each core in the multicore chip is the same as the single core chip. If you have a few smaller cores, this is not the case, and it may even be the opposite if you can disable one or more defective cores.

2. Completely wrong. Single cores are generally clocked higher, which means power/thermal density (W/mm²) is higher than say 2 similar cores clocked at half the speed.

3. How fast/wide can you make a single core? Especially for an ISA like x86? You get diminishing returns. Complexity tends to grow exponentially with the increase in speed/width.

4. I don't think memory bandwidth is a limitation in the vast majority of applications. L1 cache hit rates are >90% (>95% even i think) in modern CPUs. L2 will catch much of the rest. Only in certain massively streaming parallel processing applications will you be memory bandwidth limited, but then those tend to be processing heavy as well, so you are probably processing power limited before that.
*
very well stated there.. i will research more on it and discuss it here.. to the fact that i am using a single core and the "pressure" is up for me to change to a dual core, but due to how my mind is trained to question, i am still holding back that option. Nevertheless, the quotation from wikipedia, is highly doubtful, true. Because its an internet source. But at that moment, i thought i can inject some discussion to this good topic.

1.The fact that intel stopped making chips at the 3.8 Ghz for single core does speak alot. Because of the third reason you stated.

2.And also that higher clock speeds also dissipates a lot of heat, thats the reason, like prescott 3.8Ghz with 2Mb cache and 800Fsb is sooo heaty.


Thanks for the clear input there smile.gif


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