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> Sony 16-70Z Vs 18-135 OSS kit lens., Included sigma 16mm F1.4

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TSBenefon
post Sep 1 2018, 02:41 PM, updated 2y ago

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Today I have something to show you guys and decide which lens to go for.
Actually they both are the great lens, just on the 18-135 was not so close to take any such as flower object else.
The minimum focus were 45cm Vs 16-70Z at 35cm.
Colours wise both are so close, sharpness Zeiss is slightly better in term of T coating.

16mm Z f4
user posted image

16mm Z f8
user posted image

18mm f8 (18-135), if remain on f3.5 that was not so sharp at all, slightly soft, stop down to f8 is the best for wide angle landscape shoot
user posted image

Sigma 16mm f1.4 (f8) this lens very sharp and great IQ.
user posted image

This post has been edited by Benefon: Sep 1 2018, 02:43 PM
goldfries
post Sep 4 2018, 10:03 AM

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My preference is 16-70.
TSBenefon
post Sep 4 2018, 10:09 AM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Sep 4 2018, 10:03 AM)
My preference is 16-70.
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Good choices 👍👍
I am loving Zeiss lens as well.
goldfries
post Sep 4 2018, 11:16 AM

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I've personally used the 16-70Z on A6500 and it's a superb combo, works like my Nikon D750 with 24-120.

The 18-135 works like a 28-200 on FF body, and aperture is variable.

I believe both lens are good for their price but comparing 18-135 vs 16-70, the 16-70 is wider, it's like 24mm vs 28mm.

Once it's towards the tele size, 70mm vs 135mm isn't that apparent of a difference but the 16-70 being at f/4 on 70 still gives you some fraction stops of exposure advantage.
TSBenefon
post Sep 4 2018, 11:22 AM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Sep 4 2018, 11:16 AM)
I've personally used the 16-70Z on A6500 and it's a superb combo, works like my Nikon D750 with 24-120.

The 18-135 works like a 28-200 on FF body, and aperture is variable.

I believe both lens are good for their price but comparing 18-135 vs 16-70, the 16-70 is wider, it's like 24mm vs 28mm.

Once it's towards the tele size, 70mm vs 135mm isn't that apparent of a difference but the 16-70 being at f/4 on 70 still gives you some fraction stops of exposure advantage.
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Anyway when the 135mm reach till end, feel like very worst and a handshake for 135mm, again the aperture stop down to F5.6 really not helpful for indoor in lower lighting.
For 16-70mm still very useful F4 indoor not that bad.. Not too short and too far.
This is the best lens ever for my coming soon in Japan trip.. Just bring my A6.3k body and 16-70 with 16mm f.1.4 sigma can have more fun. 👍😁
goldfries
post Sep 4 2018, 05:04 PM

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A6300 / A6500 are superb Sony cameras. I like them for their size, unlike their A7 models.

Super duper fast burst mode too, the A6500 helped me in capturing one of my most memorable photos ever. Couldn't have done it without that blazing burst mode.
TrialGone
post Sep 4 2018, 05:50 PM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Sep 4 2018, 11:16 AM)
I've personally used the 16-70Z on A6500 and it's a superb combo, works like my Nikon D750 with 24-120.

The 18-135 works like a 28-200 on FF body, and aperture is variable.

I believe both lens are good for their price but comparing 18-135 vs 16-70, the 16-70 is wider, it's like 24mm vs 28mm.

Once it's towards the tele size, 70mm vs 135mm isn't that apparent of a difference but the 16-70 being at f/4 on 70 still gives you some fraction stops of exposure advantage.
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Actually there has been wide consensus that for that zeiss price the quality does not differ much from Sony kit 1650mm lens. In fact at certain focal length the Sony 1650mm wins over the zeiss 1670mm in sharpness. It could also due to quality control of the 1670 cause I heard that it varies a lot.
TSBenefon
post Sep 4 2018, 05:52 PM

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goldfries yup last year, went to Tokyo and Hokkaido for all my trip was covered by A6000 with 16-35 f4 FF lens, actually, I bring 2 bodies with A7ii end up just used with A6k with 16-35 F4Z taken all the time. Cause FF body no matter that was mirrorless end up the weight still quite heavy to me for walking distances.
Come back and sold off them, this year buy again for A6.3k and APS-C lens will do. Smaller lighter weight no suffers for carry them all the time.

This post has been edited by Benefon: Sep 4 2018, 05:53 PM
goldfries
post Sep 4 2018, 06:39 PM

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QUOTE(TrialGone @ Sep 4 2018, 05:50 PM)
Actually there has been wide consensus that for that zeiss price the quality does not differ much from Sony kit 1650mm lens. In fact at certain focal length the Sony 1650mm wins over the zeiss 1670mm in sharpness. It could also due to quality control of the 1670 cause I heard that it varies a lot.
I think the selling point would be the slightly longer reach and being with constant aperture. Having the 1650 being better in IQ dept for a bit is a tiny trade off.

But IQ aside, must see the focusing performance as well.

TSBenefon
post Sep 4 2018, 06:49 PM

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QUOTE(TrialGone @ Sep 4 2018, 05:50 PM)
Actually there has been wide consensus that for that zeiss price the quality does not differ much from Sony kit 1650mm lens. In fact at certain focal length the Sony 1650mm wins over the zeiss 1670mm in sharpness. It could also due to quality control of the 1670 cause I heard that it varies a lot.
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Saw in YouTube video there is quite close to 16-50 kit lens, but for me in manual zoom still winner than power zoom, saw lot of power zoom failed.

goldfries
post Sep 4 2018, 06:52 PM

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what manual zoom power zoom? power zoom as in the electrical type?

16-50 is electrical ah?
TSBenefon
post Sep 4 2018, 06:54 PM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Sep 4 2018, 06:52 PM)
what manual zoom power zoom? power zoom as in the electrical type?

16-50 is electrical ah?
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Such as digital camera as RX100 series. 😁😂😂😂

user posted image

This post has been edited by Benefon: Sep 4 2018, 06:57 PM
goldfries
post Sep 4 2018, 07:07 PM

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Reminds me of Sony RX10, lovely camera but to rely on that zoom is hopeless.
TrialGone
post Sep 5 2018, 08:10 AM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Sep 4 2018, 06:39 PM)
I think the selling point would be the slightly longer reach and being with constant aperture. Having the 1650 being better in IQ dept for a bit is a tiny trade off.

But IQ aside, must see the focusing performance as well.
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Nothing against your point. I mean in terms of price trade off. For a lens that is many times more expensive, you would have hope for better iq and qc.
TrialGone
post Sep 5 2018, 08:13 AM

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QUOTE(Benefon @ Sep 4 2018, 06:49 PM)
Saw in YouTube video there is quite close to 16-50 kit lens, but for me in manual zoom still winner than power zoom, saw lot of power zoom failed.
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.............never heard of power zoom fail unless u take it to a sandy beach..... Then again manual also get the same problem.

Not a power zoom defender btw, just laying down some facts if anyone thinks that expensive = better IQ.
TSBenefon
post Sep 5 2018, 08:48 AM

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QUOTE(TrialGone @ Sep 5 2018, 08:13 AM)
.............never heard of power zoom fail unless u take it to a sandy beach..... Then again manual also get the same problem.

Not a power zoom defender btw, just laying down some facts if anyone thinks that expensive = better IQ.
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Haha, saw once before in carousell, haha
goldfries
post Sep 5 2018, 08:26 PM

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QUOTE(TrialGone @ Sep 5 2018, 08:10 AM)
........... you would have hope for better iq and qc.
That's not to say the 16-70 has bad IQ, perhaps 16-50 itself has good IQ. biggrin.gif

I'm not an IQ hunter, not the type that pixel peep a lot. As long as it turns out sharp enough for me it's all good.

IQ and QC are separate matters though, having not so great IQ doesn't mean the QC is bad. To me QC is more related to problematic operation.

TSBenefon
post Sep 5 2018, 09:33 PM

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Kit lens might be greater , once you having the manual zoom as your preference , you won't back to power zoom.. To be honest manual zoom still fast grabbing than the power zoom..
TrialGone
post Sep 6 2018, 08:03 AM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Sep 5 2018, 08:26 PM)
That's not to say the 16-70 has bad IQ, perhaps 16-50 itself has good IQ. biggrin.gif

I'm not an IQ hunter, not the type that pixel peep a lot. As long as it turns out sharp enough for me it's all good.

IQ and QC are separate matters though, having not so great IQ doesn't mean the QC is bad. To me QC is more related to problematic operation.
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Iq is bad because someone forgot to check the lens alignment which causes blur in certain corners which is qc related. And that is what 1670 zeiss is plagued with. Qc is especially important in lens cause of the precision involved.

Again I'm not harping on anyones purchase. Just this particular zeiss 1670 is quite infamous for its relatively large variation of bad copies.

This post has been edited by TrialGone: Sep 6 2018, 08:07 AM
TSBenefon
post Sep 6 2018, 08:11 AM

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QUOTE(TrialGone @ Sep 6 2018, 08:03 AM)
Iq is bad because someone forgot to check the lens alignment which causes blur in certain corners which is qc related. And that is what 1670 Zeiss is plagued with. Qc is especially important in lens cause of the precision involved.
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Didn't heard about sony or zeiss lens has an issue of focusing issue before.. Where got buy lens without test on the spot before pay. Unless you are bought from online store.
Actually all the online store has refer you to officially service center for warranty.
Believe me once you having the zeiss lens you won't back to kit lens anymore, nobody wanna use with power zoom for all time. Again very difficult to capture on the zooming distance.
The overall feel like a digital cam.
Zeiss lens was sharper and better colours.
Unless you really mean that price , not worth for every single cent. Then stick with the kit lens , is the better choices.
TrialGone
post Sep 6 2018, 08:18 AM

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QUOTE(Benefon @ Sep 6 2018, 08:11 AM)
Didn't heard about sony or zeiss lens has an issue of focusing issue before.. Where got buy lens without test on the spot before pay. Unless you are bought from online store.
Actually all the online store has refer you to officially service center for warranty.
Believe me once you having the zeiss lens you won't back to kit lens anymore, nobody wanna use with power zoom for all time. Again very difficult to capture on the zooming distance.
The overall feel like a digital cam.
Zeiss lens was sharper and better colours.
Unless you really mean that price , not worth for every single cent. Then stick with the kit lens , is the better choices.
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Anyone reading my post right? I said "lens alignment". This one harder to detect if u don't pay attention during testing. Shoot a flat surface like brick wall. If you spot a soft corner, usually mean one the lens axis is a little off. You may have no issue with little blur but for that price range u think u want to accept? And no. Just cause there is zeiss badge on it, does not mean its better.

If you like manual zoom fine go ahead. I'm not harping on your choice. Just don't give wrong impression that zeiss gives big boost in iq when in reality not that far from kit.

This post has been edited by TrialGone: Sep 6 2018, 08:21 AM
TSBenefon
post Sep 6 2018, 08:34 AM

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QUOTE(TrialGone @ Sep 6 2018, 08:18 AM)
Anyone reading my post right? I said "lens alignment". This one harder to detect if u don't pay attention during testing. Shoot a flat surface like brick wall. If you spot a soft corner, usually mean one the lens axis is a little off. You may have no issue with little blur but for that price range u think u want to accept? And no. Just cause there is zeiss badge on it, does not mean its better.

If you like manual zoom fine go ahead. I'm not harping on your choice. Just don't give wrong impression that zeiss gives big boost in iq when in reality not that far from kit.
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Do not blamed on the Zeiss lens.
Your argument was bad IQ on the zeiss lens.. How you would you wanna proof they are bad or extremely bad?
To all the photos output were the identical , once you posted on IG or FB , whose know?
I didn't say Kit lens no good.. This is comes to your point of view.

If you are having both and do compared side by side, then i can accepted the statement.

Even i having the sony 18-135mm f3.5-5.6 OSS, i didn't said that is bad on IQ, just the distance too far from 18 to 135mm it is not great for low lighting and varies apertures.. If you can why stick on f5.6 in low light for indoor shoots.
You know how many ISO you gonna to pump in. At least ISO 6.4k minimum.. Everything in the condition.

This post has been edited by Benefon: Sep 6 2018, 08:47 AM
TrialGone
post Sep 6 2018, 12:04 PM

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QUOTE(Benefon @ Sep 6 2018, 08:34 AM)
Do not blamed on the Zeiss lens.
Your argument was bad IQ on the zeiss lens.. How you would you wanna proof they are bad or extremely bad?
To all the photos output were the identical , once you posted on IG or FB , whose know?
I didn't say Kit lens no good.. This is comes to your point of view.

If you are having both and do compared side by side, then i can accepted the statement.

Even i having the sony 18-135mm f3.5-5.6 OSS, i didn't said that is bad on IQ, just the distance too far from 18 to 135mm it is not great for low lighting and varies apertures.. If you can why stick on f5.6 in low light for indoor shoots.
You know how many ISO you gonna to pump in. At least ISO 6.4k minimum.. Everything in the condition.
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All your points are off. Read my post carefully. Just pointing out on zeiss1670.
TSBenefon
post Sep 6 2018, 12:31 PM

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QUOTE(TrialGone @ Sep 6 2018, 12:04 PM)
All your points are off. Read my post carefully. Just pointing out on zeiss1670.
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QUOTE(TrialGone @ Sep 4 2018, 05:50 PM)
Actually there has been wide consensus that for that zeiss price the quality does not differ much from Sony kit 1650mm lens. In fact, at certain focal length the Sony 1650mm wins over the zeiss 1670mm in sharpness. It could also due to quality control of the 1670 cause I heard that it varies a lot.
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QUOTE(TrialGone @ Sep 5 2018, 08:10 AM)
Nothing against your point. I mean in terms of price trade off. For a lens that is many times more expensive, you would have hope for better iq and qc.
*
Check what you said before. 😉

QC could be some of lemon set right.
If any issue we can bring back for warranty.. Still acceptable.
Image quality will be the overall what we needs.

This post has been edited by Benefon: Sep 6 2018, 12:34 PM
TrialGone
post Sep 6 2018, 12:35 PM

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QUOTE(Benefon @ Sep 6 2018, 12:31 PM)
Check what you said before. 😉
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Sigh...... I said quality control...... Like which part of it meant bad image quality specifically, though technically it does cause bad image if lens alignment is off, IF it is off when u get your hands on it. I'm critisizing the manufacturing quality part not the lens design.... Can't believe I'm explaining something so common sense.

Secondly I said the zeiss 1670 has almost same iq or worse at certain focal length as the kit lens for its price.......... Did I said iq on kit is bad? I'm really not sure if u even interpret correctly. How does saying something is better means the other is bad? Hey zeiss otus/batis is much better than zeiss 1670, that means zeiss 1670 is very bad? Like wtf?

This post has been edited by TrialGone: Sep 6 2018, 12:38 PM
maxxsp
post Sep 6 2018, 12:39 PM

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QUOTE(Benefon @ Sep 6 2018, 08:34 AM)
Do not blamed on the Zeiss lens.
Your argument was bad IQ on the zeiss lens.. How you would you wanna proof they are bad or extremely bad?
To all the photos output were the identical , once you posted on IG or FB , whose know?
I didn't say Kit lens no good.. This is comes to your point of view.

If you are having both and do compared side by side, then i can accepted the statement.

Even i having the sony 18-135mm f3.5-5.6 OSS, i didn't said that is bad on IQ, just the distance too far from 18 to 135mm it is not great for low lighting and varies apertures.. If you can why stick on f5.6 in low light for indoor shoots.
You know how many ISO you gonna to pump in. At least ISO 6.4k minimum.. Everything in the condition.
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Zony lenses are notorious for having QC issues which is what TrialGone is trying to point out.

BTW Zeiss and Sony Zeiss 'Zony' are not the same. Just because you're paying for blue badge tax does not make it a better lens. For example the 24-70Z is well known for issues with poor copies.

Agree that manual zoom lenses feel nicer but if you shoot video the PZ is more versatile.
I think a better comparison would be the 16-70Z vs 18-105G PZ as both are fixed aperture lenses.

TSBenefon
post Sep 6 2018, 12:44 PM

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QUOTE(maxxsp @ Sep 6 2018, 12:39 PM)
Zony lenses are notorious for having QC issues which is what TrialGone is trying to point out.

BTW Zeiss and Sony Zeiss 'Zony' are not the same. Just because you're paying for blue badge tax does not make it a better lens. For example the 24-70Z is well known for issues with poor copies.

Agree that manual zoom lenses feel nicer but if you shoot video the PZ is more versatile.
I think a better comparison would be the 16-70Z vs 18-105G PZ as both are fixed aperture lenses.
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Actually i do believe not all the lens has an issue right.. Same as Sigma lens whoever didn't test before , confirm can seen the focus point not accurately.

For me Zeiss or Sony or Any lenses still have some of the QC issue.. Not to apply for all , but still make sure you test before pay at the counter 😁😁
maxxsp
post Sep 6 2018, 12:46 PM

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QUOTE(Benefon @ Sep 6 2018, 12:31 PM)
Check what you said before. 😉

QC could be some of lemon set right.
If any issue we can bring back for warranty.. Still acceptable.
Image quality will be the overall what we needs.
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Many Sony/Zony lenses suffer from decentering issues. As far as I know if you're buying in Malaysia and you unseal the box you cannot get a refund or exchange unlike other countries where they have great refund/exchange policies. So if you get a poor copy you are pretty much stuck with it.

QUOTE(Benefon @ Sep 6 2018, 12:44 PM)
Actually i do believe not all the lens has an issue right.. Same as Sigma lens whoever didn't test before , confirm can seen the focus point not accurately.

For me Zeiss or Sony or Any lenses still have some of the QC issue.. Not to apply for all , but still make sure you test before pay at the counter 😁😁
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Yeah which is why TrialGone highlighted QUALITY CONTROL issues not IQ. As quality differs between copies.

You aren't gonna see sharpness/decentering issues by checking at the counter. Only when you're back home and pixel peeping on Lightroom or the equivalent. By that time it's too late.

This post has been edited by maxxsp: Sep 6 2018, 12:49 PM
TSBenefon
post Sep 6 2018, 12:49 PM

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QUOTE(maxxsp @ Sep 6 2018, 12:46 PM)
Many Sony/Zony lenses suffer from decentering issues. As far as I know if you're buying in Malaysia and you unseal the box you cannot get a refund or exchange unlike other countries where they have great refund/exchange policies. So if you get a poor copy you are pretty much stuck with it.
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But so far in Singapore has not an issue, usually will test on the spot.. Even after warranty the lens still in working condition.
That is why i will buy again for Zeiss lens.. Sound quite bad for Malaysia copy.. Sorry that is my bad. 😥

This post has been edited by Benefon: Sep 6 2018, 12:51 PM
maxxsp
post Sep 6 2018, 12:51 PM

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QUOTE(Benefon @ Sep 6 2018, 12:49 PM)
But so far in Singapore has not an issue, usually will test on the spot.. Even after warranty the lens still in working condition.
That is why i will buy again for Zeiss lens again.. Sound quite back for Malaysia copy.. Sorry that is my bad. 😥
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Lucky you if you get to purchase and test in another country.
Here we play the 'lens lottery' rclxms.gif

TSBenefon
post Sep 6 2018, 12:54 PM

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QUOTE(maxxsp @ Sep 6 2018, 12:51 PM)
Lucky you if you get to purchase and test in another country.
Here we play the 'lens lottery'  rclxms.gif
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To be honest i don't really trust the AF, if such as the policy were , you peel off the sealed sticky must be pay before. I will go to another shop.
maxxsp
post Sep 6 2018, 12:56 PM

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QUOTE(Benefon @ Sep 6 2018, 12:54 PM)
To be honest i don't really trust the AF, if such as the policy were , you peel off the sealed sticky must be pay before. I will go to another shop.
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AF, OSS and most other issues will be covered under warranty. Copy variation will not.

TSBenefon
post Sep 6 2018, 01:00 PM

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QUOTE(maxxsp @ Sep 6 2018, 12:56 PM)
AF, OSS and most other issues will be covered under warranty. Copy variation will not.
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Yup make sure you enter the right shop.
Wish you good luck for future purchase new lens again.

Below is showing has some extra copy , when test it out before made payment. 😂
user posted image
TrialGone
post Sep 6 2018, 01:07 PM

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QUOTE(Benefon @ Sep 6 2018, 01:00 PM)
Yup make sure you enter the right shop.
Wish you good luck for future purchase new lens again.

Below is showing has some extra copy , when test it out before made payment. 😂
user posted image
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Did u test it out on a flat surface like brick wall and spot the corners. Remember to check every focal length as well. If no iffy blurring, congrats u got the good copy.
TSBenefon
post Sep 6 2018, 01:23 PM

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QUOTE(TrialGone @ Sep 6 2018, 01:07 PM)
Did u test it out on a flat surface like brick wall and spot the corners. Remember to check every focal length as well. If no iffy blurring, congrats u got the good copy.
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Actually more difficult to test like , capture the lens cap name label, try to shoot on 45degee, if you could not get the accurate in that single AF point, the lens really has an AF issue.
For common like brick or focus length may lesser issue than you test it on close up. But i still hope it would be too uncommon for QC issue. Cause on each lense we bought the cost can easily more than few thousand.

Wish you good luck also... 😁

Make sure the wording not out of focus.
user posted image

user posted image

This post has been edited by Benefon: Sep 6 2018, 01:31 PM
TrialGone
post Sep 6 2018, 01:56 PM

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QUOTE(Benefon @ Sep 6 2018, 01:23 PM)
Actually more difficult to test like , capture the lens cap name label, try to shoot on 45degee, if you could not get the accurate in that single AF point, the lens really has an AF issue.
For common like brick or focus length may lesser issue than you test it on close up. But i still hope it would be too uncommon for QC issue. Cause on each lense we bought the cost can easily more than few thousand.

Wish you good luck also... 😁

Make sure the wording not out of focus.
user posted image

user posted image
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Look. The zeiss 1670 qc problem is on the lens decenterring issue. Not talking about AF. I'm sure your AF is working absolutely fine. Your manual ring is fine. Your lens coating is fine. Your cat is fine. Just focus on the decenterring thing by doing the brick wall test.

I'm sure there is nothing wrong with investing money on the zeiss. But just do the test to get it off your chest that you have bought the good cop....... Hey hey *snap *snap...... don't look at sigma, we not talking about sigma qc iq abc.... focus on your zeiss 1670 and check if u have bought a good copy. If u lucky u don't have to return it.
TSBenefon
post Sep 6 2018, 02:01 PM

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QUOTE(TrialGone @ Sep 6 2018, 01:56 PM)
Look. The zeiss 1670 qc problem is on the lens decenterring issue. Not talking about AF. I'm sure your AF is working absolutely fine. Your manual ring is fine. Your lens coating is fine. Your cat is fine. Just focus on the decenterring thing by doing the brick wall test.

I'm sure there is nothing wrong with investing money on the zeiss. But just do the test to get it off your chest that you have bought the good cop....... Hey hey *snap *snap...... don't look at sigma, we not talking about sigma qc iq abc.... focus on your zeiss 1670 and check if u have bought a good copy.  If u lucky u don't have to return it.
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Thanks anyway for your highlighted.
If have any back focus or QC issue , i will bring to the service centre 😂😂... Wish me good luck too .
TrialGone
post Sep 6 2018, 02:32 PM

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QUOTE(Benefon @ Sep 6 2018, 02:01 PM)
Thanks anyway for your highlighted.
If have any back focus or QC issue , i will bring to the service centre 😂😂... Wish me good luck too .
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.......... You do know what we mean by lens de-centering right? As in axis of the lens is out of alignment? Nothing to do with focusing. This problem is much more difficult to detect unless u look at a monitor. Will affect iq if you want everything sharp focus at infinity. You don't have to worry if u only plan to shoot bokeh shots.

 

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