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> What is the real issue with LGBT?, For those who have issues with them (Social Issues)

internaldisputes
post Oct 10 2018, 01:23 PM

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QUOTE(zamorin @ Oct 10 2018, 11:19 AM)
This is why Khalid Samad remains one of my favorite Malaysian Politician, smart, has principles and is almost always right. He did not approve it but neither did he disapprove of it, yet at the same time he gets to sue the pants off the normal religious bigots. That really is smart. He can't do much further than that now with the repressive laws still in force against the LGBT.
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Nah, pretty sure he is 100% against LGBT.

Legendary Alleged Gay Club in Kuala Lumpur Raided for First Time in 30 Years

In an official statement on the Ministry of Federal Territory page, Khalid Samad, the minister of Federal Territory stated, “The government is very serious in dealing with this radical belief. Hopefully this initiative can mitigate the LGBT culture from spreading into our society.”

Read more at WOB: https://www.worldofbuzz.com/legendary-alleg...me-in-30-years/
zamorin
post Oct 10 2018, 01:40 PM

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QUOTE(internaldisputes @ Oct 10 2018, 01:23 PM)
Nah, pretty sure he is 100% against LGBT.

Legendary Alleged Gay Club in Kuala Lumpur Raided for First Time in 30 Years

In an official statement on the Ministry of Federal Territory page, Khalid Samad, the minister of Federal Territory stated, “The government is very serious in dealing with this radical belief. Hopefully this initiative can mitigate the LGBT culture from spreading into our society.”

Read more at WOB: https://www.worldofbuzz.com/legendary-alleg...me-in-30-years/
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Yikes, I take that back.
Spear2
post Oct 10 2018, 02:51 PM

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QUOTE(cazorla19 @ Oct 10 2018, 12:41 PM)
This was always going to be a problem when trying to accommodate religious law into the constitution. Its impossible to have liberty and freedom as defined in the modern era alongside a 7th century legal system. While common law can be adjusted to be in line with shariah principles whatever that may be there is no way that religious law can ever be adjusted to be in line with modern values. Religious law is static and archaic and impossible to reform. When we talk about encroaching shariah law this is an inevitable clash that comes about due to the fact that the constitution simply fails to adequately draw boundaries or allow any one court to have a final say in legal matters.

That why I laugh whenever so called legal experts who are concerned about creeping sharia ask us to refer to the constitution. Refer to what exactly? Its position on syariah is unclear and the source of our problems. The spirit of the constitution means nothing to the conservatives who would replace the constitution with the quran given half the chance. Article 3 says that religion is a state matter. Article 11 says that freedom of religion is allowed for all. Article 121 (1a) effectively negates Article 11 by allowing the syariah courts which have shown little concern for the constitution to have final say on the matter. Article 160 then declares all Malays to be muslims leaving 0 room for non muslim malays to even exist.

So what is the conclusion from this mess?
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I guess you are right that the constitution fails to draw clear boundaries between overlapping jurisdiction of the two legal systems, that conservatives would care less what secular notion placed in the constitution, for them Quran is supreme is all that matters. So we are left to our own device to tilt the boat whenever we can, what are the sharia laws meant in the constitution which are merely religious tradition, that the legal experts have to constantly remind and oppose, and until the majority of Malaysians favor a secular nation over a religious one. Changes that must come from multiple directions, or regression into a conservative Islamic nation is just too painful for most of us.
puchongite
post Oct 10 2018, 06:07 PM

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QUOTE(zamorin @ Oct 10 2018, 01:40 PM)
Yikes, I take that back.
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Can't find a single Zaid Ibrahim within the current PH cabinet.

Most have strong background in either Islam or Christian.

Even KJ would be more open in LGBT than anyone of them.
zamorin
post Oct 10 2018, 06:31 PM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ Oct 10 2018, 06:07 PM)
Can't find a single Zaid Ibrahim within the current PH cabinet.

Most have strong background in either Islam or Christian. 

Even KJ would be more open in LGBT than anyone of them.
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True, I hope Khalid Samad will change his tune. I believe he will. From raiding an LGBT party to now being termed pro-LGBT by the fundies is quite a change in position. Anyway we can only wait where he is going to go with the LGBT issue and I hope he comes to his senses soon.

It's just pathetic that among our politicians there is only a single one so far who has been sensible - Zaid Ibrahim. Respect!

This post has been edited by zamorin: Oct 10 2018, 06:32 PM
cazorla19
post Oct 11 2018, 07:43 PM

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QUOTE(Spear2 @ Oct 10 2018, 02:51 PM)
I guess you are right that the constitution fails to draw clear boundaries between overlapping jurisdiction of the two legal systems, that conservatives would care less what secular notion placed in the constitution, for them Quran is supreme is all that matters. So we are left to our own device to tilt the boat whenever we can, what are the sharia laws meant in the constitution which are merely religious tradition, that the legal experts have to constantly remind and oppose, and until the majority of Malaysians favor a secular nation over a religious one. Changes that must come from multiple directions, or regression into a conservative Islamic nation is just too painful for most of us.
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Its fair to say that since the constitution is incapable of stating it clearly, it then falls upon the people and their elected representatives via parliament to decide what kind of country we want to live in. The constitution is subject to amendment with a 2/3 majority anyway and with the changing demographics of Malaysia it will eventually be up to the Malays to decide whether its a secular or liberal country or whether we will continue with the hybrid system that we have. I think the hybrid system is likely to persist for the foreseeable future as it allows the liberals to claim that we do practice islamic law enough to satisfy the conservatives without having to actually turn the country into a real Islamic state. This compromise that may well be the best we can get if we wish to avoid living in a taliban state.

A truly secular and liberal Malaysia will only happen when the majority of malays decide that separation of church (or mosque) and state is not only desirable but necessary to enjoy a truly free, open and progressive life. There is a real struggle going on for the hearts and minds of the malays between the secular and conservative crowds and the outcome of this contest will determine the future of this country. The rest of us are like passengers on the bus powerless to determine whether the drunken or sober driver takes the wheel.
Spear2
post Oct 12 2018, 07:58 AM

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QUOTE(cazorla19 @ Oct 11 2018, 07:43 PM)
Its fair to say that since the constitution is incapable of stating it clearly, it then falls upon the people and their elected representatives via parliament to decide what kind of country we want to live in. The constitution is subject to amendment with a 2/3 majority anyway and with the changing demographics of Malaysia it will eventually be up to the Malays to decide whether its a secular or liberal country or whether we will continue with the hybrid system that we have. I think the hybrid system is likely to persist for the foreseeable future as it allows the liberals to claim that we do practice islamic law enough to satisfy the conservatives without having to actually turn the country into a real Islamic state. This compromise that may well be the best we can get if we wish to avoid living in a taliban state.

A truly secular and liberal Malaysia will only happen when the majority of malays decide that separation of church (or mosque) and state is not only desirable but necessary to enjoy a truly free, open and progressive life. There is a real struggle going on for the hearts and minds of the malays between the secular and conservative crowds and the outcome of this contest will determine the future of this country. The rest of us are like passengers on the bus powerless to determine whether the drunken or sober driver takes the wheel.
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I wouldn't want to think that we are passive passengers but we must also take great care not to nudge and poke too aggressively. We lend our voice to those who are pushing our point of views, that our voices carry some weight if we were to base them on good reasons and good evidence.
ramz
post Yesterday, 04:04 AM

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I got 1 week suspension because I commented on this Quran verse. I will paste it here. But I guess I won't offer criticism, coz most Muslims can't take it.
QUOTE
Quran: "And (We sent) Lot when he said to his people: What! do you commit an indecency which any one in the world has not done before you? Most surely you come to males in lust besides females; nay you are an extravagant people. And the answer of his people was no other than that they said: Turn them out of your town, surely they are a people who seek to purify (themselves). So We delivered him and his followers, except his wife; she was of those who remained behind. And We rained upon them a rain; consider then what was the end of the guilty."[7:80–84 (Translated by Shakir)

ramz
post Yesterday, 04:31 AM

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QUOTE(cazorla19 @ Oct 11 2018, 07:43 PM)
Its fair to say that since the constitution is incapable of stating it clearly, it then falls upon the people and their elected representatives via parliament to decide what kind of country we want to live in. The constitution is subject to amendment with a 2/3 majority anyway and with the changing demographics of Malaysia it will eventually be up to the Malays to decide whether its a secular or liberal country or whether we will continue with the hybrid system that we have. I think the hybrid system is likely to persist for the foreseeable future as it allows the liberals to claim that we do practice islamic law enough to satisfy the conservatives without having to actually turn the country into a real Islamic state. This compromise that may well be the best we can get if we wish to avoid living in a taliban state.

A truly secular and liberal Malaysia will only happen when the majority of malays decide that separation of church (or mosque) and state is not only desirable but necessary to enjoy a truly free, open and progressive life. There is a real struggle going on for the hearts and minds of the malays between the secular and conservative crowds and the outcome of this contest will determine the future of this country. The rest of us are like passengers on the bus powerless to determine whether the drunken or sober driver takes the wheel.
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A weakened pas and UMNO seems to be heading to this separation. But it's long way more. In PH there is no indication that will change so soon. Maybe in a hundred years time. This type of things take time. I can see a little reversal in islamic fundamental culture. But it's too early to say if it will catch on. We are looking at countries like Saudi, and more don't agree it's a good idea to be like them.
puchongite
post Yesterday, 04:11 PM

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Buddhist dad wins court bid to cancel ex-wife’s unilateral conversion of kids to Islam

https://www.malaymail.com/s/1683260/court-t...r-indira-ruling

https://www.malaymail.com/s/1683493/buddhis...nversion-of-kid



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