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> GST refund late causing price increase?, due to late refund

BEANCOUNTER
post Aug 11 2018, 10:08 AM

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QUOTE(touristking @ Aug 11 2018, 12:41 AM)
The producer and traders got their GST refunded to them. That's because they are not the end-user aka the consumer. But Pakatan makes it sounded like they didn't get the refund and the consumer paying for multiple GST.

The consumer doesn't get any refund. Hence it's called "Consumer Tax".

To the layman, Zero GST and no GST are the same thing, both 0

100 x 0% = 0
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no lah...where got same thing between Zero rated and Exempted.

Zero rated means you cant charged but you have to absorb. Bottomline.....GST refund (input zero, output one). this is where the 18bil come from.

Exempted means you cant charged and you cant be charged. bottomline....no GST (input zero, output zero).


Most of the 18bil are from zero rated entities, especially exporters. the rest are business lost making entities.

BEANCOUNTER
post Aug 11 2018, 10:13 AM

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QUOTE(RedDevil32 @ Aug 11 2018, 01:20 AM)
Glad this GST finally going away.

This GST refund is bullshit, on our first gst refund claim, they come to do audit to our company. After many days of audit and lost business, my auditor advice us to open extra invoice and sell under cash sales every month to increase our output tax to avoid more audit. We are just small 20 people company , dont have enough manpower to many 8000-10000 pcs of invoice monthly. In the end, it cause higher expenses because we need a person to do gst calculation every month to make sure output tax is higher .

And some of our supplier, never register gst, they use paper receipt. But their supplying price is already inclusive of gst because they buy from a Gst distributor. These distributor doesnt deal with small order, hence we are force to buy from their recommended supplier. Hence double GST happen at this level.

This is one main reason why pricing always high. There is no room to cut the expenses. Now with Gst going away, we could save 2-3 account clerk who manage the gst part.
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this is the problem. dishonest business.

when you tried to mending with actual facts, the whole things will get ever muddier.

its like you cover a lie with another lie. it will never end.

biz needs to advance with time. IT technologies are the great way to simplify things. You only file GST return once a month, you don't need to hire one or two special clerks to do such task, if you computerised the entire system.
RedDevil32
post Aug 11 2018, 10:19 AM

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QUOTE(touristking @ Aug 11 2018, 07:08 AM)
Businesses don't like GST because it's hardly to evade tax.

I think they will match your output vs your input to see any funny thing going on or not.
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Middle scale SME like us, with average of 8000-10000 tax invoice issue a month , need extra 4 person to handle it. Thats additional 10k staff salary just to arrange supplier invoice and issue invoice to customer. Imagine a bigger company, they will need more manpower, hence price will raise. Plus the late refund or never refund case. Most of our product actually up price by almost 20% compare to pre gst period.
touristking
post Aug 11 2018, 11:06 AM

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QUOTE(BEANCOUNTER @ Aug 11 2018, 03:00 AM)
in all countries, the start of GST will have impacted on the sudden rise of cost of living, and the rate is only on the way up and up. I never see a country introduce GST and later reduce it as the country's finances are improved.

We introduce GST so that foreign workers will be taxed? Is tis the mindset general malaysians have?

lets face it

GST is an efficient tax system. its a 'user pay' tax. even if you want to waste black money, you still kena gst.

SST is a fairer tax system.
However, malaysians (or some portion of them) have been pampered since day 1. they cant be susah susah de in their lives. beside, with the super corrupted gov to handle large chuck of cash, things will get wrong. Its the perfect Murphy's law.
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You have a very narrow mindset and missing the big picture. Did you know Malaysia have a very narrow tax base? And are you saying it's fair that only a small portion of people, primarily salary workers, have to pay tax and the vast majority don't?

One aim of GST is to broaden the tax base, that is a new term for you, so that it will be fairer to the existing tax payer. Now everybody including foreign workers, tourists, tax evaders have to pay.

It's not entirely correct to say everything got taxed by GST. Basic necessities stuff are zero GST.



touristking
post Aug 11 2018, 11:10 AM

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QUOTE(BEANCOUNTER @ Aug 11 2018, 03:08 AM)
no lah...where got same thing between Zero rated and Exempted.

Zero rated means you cant charged but you have to absorb. Bottomline.....GST refund (input zero, output one). this is where the 18bil come from.

Exempted means you cant charged and you cant be charged. bottomline....no GST (input zero, output zero).
Most of the 18bil are from zero rated entities, especially exporters. the rest are business lost making entities.
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Sure there are Zero GST.

A farmer buy fertilizer and have to pay GST.

The farmer sells his vegetable at Zero GST. Which means the consumer paid nothing on GST.

The farmer claim back his previously paid GST.


A factory buy raw material and have to pay GST.

The factory export his product at Zero GST.

The factory claim back his previously paid GST.


Those money supposedly have to be given back to the farmer and factory are part of the 18 billions.

touristking
post Aug 11 2018, 11:17 AM

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QUOTE(RedDevil32 @ Aug 11 2018, 03:19 AM)
Middle scale SME like us, with average of 8000-10000 tax invoice issue a month , need extra 4 person to handle it. Thats additional 10k staff salary just to arrange supplier invoice and issue invoice to customer. Imagine a bigger company, they will need more manpower, hence price will raise. Plus the late refund or never refund case. Most of our product actually up price by almost 20% compare to pre gst period.
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There are always learning curve for everything. There are things like software that makes issuing GST tax invoice not much more different from issuing other invoice. You enter the name of your customers. You enter the item sold and price and quantity. The software does the rest like calculating the GST amount. When it comes to GST submission, you press the appropriate button and again the software does it for you. Not exactly rocket science.

Now, are you saying, before GST, you hardly have sell of 10,000 per month?

And after GST, you suddenly have 10,000 sells per month?

If that is the case, shouldn't you be happy business is good under GST?

Or are you saying, before GST, you sell cash under the table and doesn't have to issue invoice to escape paying tax? If you are such person, then GST is designed to catch previous tax evaders.









BEANCOUNTER
post Aug 11 2018, 11:17 AM

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QUOTE(touristking @ Aug 11 2018, 11:06 AM)
You have a very narrow mindset and missing the big picture. Did you know Malaysia have a very narrow tax base? And are you saying it's fair that only a small portion of people, primarily salary workers, have to pay tax and the vast majority don't?

One aim of GST is to broaden the tax base, that is a new term for you, so that it will be fairer to the existing tax payer. Now everybody including foreign workers, tourists, tax evaders have to pay.

It's not entirely correct to say everything got taxed by GST. Basic necessities stuff are zero GST.
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now foreign workers don't pay tax??????

if necessities are zero GST, why ppl complaint about the rise of cost of living?

in order to correctly and rightfully implementing GST, the gov needs to be 'amanah dan bersih'. unfortunately the previous gov was lack of both.

with the GST, you need to pay when you earn and when also you spend. salary earners where got care abt those tax evaded persons? they need to look at their wallets if they can survive boh. whatever boarder tax bracket is only applied to the gov, it doesn't help salary workers at all.
BEANCOUNTER
post Aug 11 2018, 11:20 AM

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QUOTE(touristking @ Aug 11 2018, 11:10 AM)
Sure there are Zero GST.

A farmer buy fertilizer and have to pay GST.

The farmer sells his vegetable at Zero GST. Which means the consumer paid nothing on GST.

The farmer claim back his previously paid GST.
A factory buy raw material and have to pay GST.

The factory export his product at Zero GST.

The factory claim back his previously paid GST.
Those money supposedly have to be given back to the farmer and factory are part of the 18 billions.
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not zero GST lah….

its either zero rated or exempted.
touristking
post Aug 11 2018, 11:20 AM

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QUOTE(BEANCOUNTER @ Aug 11 2018, 04:17 AM)
now foreign workers don't pay tax??????

if necessities are zero GST, why ppl complaint about the rise of cost of living?


in order to correctly and rightfully implementing GST, the gov needs to be 'amanah dan bersih'. unfortunately the previous gov was lack of both.

with the GST, you need to pay when you earn and when also you spend. salary earners where got care abt those tax evaded persons? they need to look at their wallets if they can survive boh. whatever boarder tax bracket is only applied to the gov, it doesn't help salary workers at all.
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If you say GST is the MAIN cause of price increase, then how come nowadays with no GST you heard reports of prices not coming down?

Here's such a complain of price not coming down even though there are no GST.
https://www.worldofbuzz.com/prices-at-30-of...zero-rated-gst/
touristking
post Aug 11 2018, 11:22 AM

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QUOTE(BEANCOUNTER @ Aug 11 2018, 04:20 AM)
not zero GST lah….

its either zero rated or exempted.
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You are also wrong lah.

If you want to nit pick.

It should be Zero Rated GST


touristking
post Aug 11 2018, 11:23 AM

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QUOTE(BEANCOUNTER @ Aug 11 2018, 04:20 AM)
not zero GST lah….

its either zero rated or exempted.
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You are also wrong lah.

If you want to nit pick.

It should be Zero Rated GST

BEANCOUNTER
post Aug 11 2018, 11:23 AM

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QUOTE(touristking @ Aug 11 2018, 11:20 AM)
If you say GST is the MAIN cause of price increase, then how come nowadays with no GST you heard reports of prices not coming down?

Here's such a complain of price not coming down even though there are no GST.
https://www.worldofbuzz.com/prices-at-30-of...zero-rated-gst/
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prices are set by vendors.

you think all vendors are saints?
touristking
post Aug 11 2018, 11:35 AM

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QUOTE(BEANCOUNTER @ Aug 11 2018, 04:23 AM)
prices are set by vendors.

you think all vendors are saints?
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First you say GST cause price increase. Now you say vendor cause price increase.

Please make up your mind, GST or Vendor major cause of price increase?

BEANCOUNTER
post Aug 11 2018, 12:53 PM

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QUOTE(touristking @ Aug 11 2018, 11:35 AM)
First you say GST cause price increase. Now you say vendor cause price increase.

Please make up your mind, GST or Vendor major cause of price increase?
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gst has the tendency of causing vendors to increase prices.

we are not operating in a perfect world. theory is good, implementation could be near perfect but people are far from perfection.
touristking
post Aug 11 2018, 01:44 PM

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QUOTE(BEANCOUNTER @ Aug 11 2018, 05:53 AM)
gst has the tendency of causing vendors to increase prices.

we are not operating in a perfect world. theory is good, implementation could be near perfect but people are far from perfection.
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If GST gives vendor the excuse to raise price, then the same vendor will also use SST as excuse to raise price. So both GST and SST are mere excuse to raise price.

So when SST comes and prices increase and people complain, PH will have some explaining to do.



BEANCOUNTER
post Aug 11 2018, 07:34 PM

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QUOTE(touristking @ Aug 11 2018, 01:44 PM)
If GST gives vendor the excuse to raise price, then the same vendor will also use SST as excuse to raise price. So both GST and SST are mere excuse to raise price.

So when SST comes and prices increase and people complain, PH will have some explaining to do.
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That will be PH problem, not mine

You cant make everyone happy.

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