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> Atheists Agnostics Assemble, Ask and your answer will be served

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will4848
post Mar 18 2019, 04:37 PM

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QUOTE(duHwaN @ Mar 18 2019, 09:20 AM)
This topic is never easy, else there will never be a never ending stream of thread discussing this over and over again. There are so many fine details to consider. I will put up a little scenario for you to re-think, wrt to the little magic trick.

A man is uncertain and troubled with his future prospect. He cannot think his way out of it with the cloud in his mind. He seek a holy man for help. This holy man through prayer and belief, invoke God's blessing upon the man. The troubled man believed and felt peace descend upon him. He does not have a solution to his problem at hand, but he is now instilled with peace and belief that God's will assist him through it. He left with this feeling. The holy man, on the other hand, felt that he helped the man and better the world a little. So both men parted ways feeling a little better.

I, personally will not be so convinced. But I see a little good there.

** Yes, there are con men using this trick too, but that itself can be another topic.
*
that is where the problem begin when human started to believe that god created everything cool2.gif
even many atheist also do believe this deswai u see they always argue about god existence....
will4848
post Mar 18 2019, 06:05 PM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ Mar 18 2019, 05:42 PM)
Give example ?
*
if atheist dont believe god exist then why need to argue with those who believe god exist ?
i mean, everybody have their right to believe what they want to believe ...exist or not exist is their problem ma ...
same about science and religion argument, if science is science and not religion then why need to argue ??
u must compare apple with apple not pork chop with apple ...
but if u think science actually is a new religion then ok, no problem lets argue n compare who is better bruce.gif
will4848
post Mar 18 2019, 09:12 PM

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QUOTE(Spear2 @ Mar 18 2019, 08:01 PM)
Then why are you here? To preach? The comment above is an argument, it's your point of view, some may or may not agree, but like you said it's not your problem ma, so why bother posting then?
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to have some fun n waste time lah .... boring ma ... icon_idea.gif ..deswai i both side also argue bruce.gif bruce.gif

will4848
post Mar 18 2019, 09:14 PM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ Mar 18 2019, 06:29 PM)
So this is your argument using your best logic ?

Really laugh die me.
*
so this is your best shot ?

will4848
post Mar 30 2019, 11:08 AM

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QUOTE(xyroth @ Mar 30 2019, 12:18 AM)
Didn't you see benefits from 5 times a day prayer? Think you not getting the artistic of it

1) Physical exercise - all the movement burn calories. Sometimes the longer surah recite, the better because you'll burn more calories when standing (not sitting). Then what if you easily getting tired and out of breath when performing it? It clearly tell you physically unfit.

2) Mind break - this is part where if you perform prayer (not to confuse with 'doa' or called it summon/called-out), you will have a consciousness-mind-break or you can related it with meditation. This 'act' where if you perform it correctly will train your mind to be more focus, train for concentration and will allow extra room for 'creativity'.

3) discipline - this is most important lesson of 5 times a day prayer. This is where you arrange everything in order, prioritize everything, constantly doing it. The least number is 5, but the more is better. Even recommended meals only 3-4 times per day for healthy. Tell me which routine has to do as frequents as this?

If you really focus doing it, not only your problem, but you'll solve others problems as well.
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so do u think our politician in malaysia do this ??
will4848
post Apr 5 2019, 01:43 PM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ Apr 5 2019, 08:42 AM)
Yes, exactly.

Because a teacher has limited power, he cannot create a universe with freewill but no evil. But God is almighty, God can.

If God is almighty, and can create a universe with freewill but without evil, why then evil still exist ?

The only theological answer is now because God wants to use it to test us.

It still goes back exactly like the flow chart.
*
wrong perception, the so called god as u mention above is not "absolute"...
if he is the "absolute" then he should be out of the "system" n not inside the universe he created ...
then the god n evil concept is not a "absolute concept" n is a "dualistic concept"....
when there is god, there must be evil ....up n down, left n right n so on ....
if your first perception about god is wrong, then the following thing u mention is also wrong, like free will, god create everything n so on ....
will4848
post Apr 5 2019, 02:13 PM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ Apr 5 2019, 01:59 PM)
I am too lazy to argue with you lar. You are always wishy washy watery, which makes no sense to me. Please use human language.

Since when we talk about "absolute", "inside/outside system", "dualistic concept" ? Go get a pair of glasses to fix your vision.  doh.gif
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what so difficult to understand ?? .... if god create the universe, he should be "outside of the universe" n not "inside the universe" ....
if u are comparing god n evil, that is a duality concept ... good n evil, up n down, left n right n so on ...
so the god u mention actually is just some of your imagination god ....still inside the universe .....
so if the universe is really created by god then god must be "absolute" .... outside of the universe ...
'outside' means he is not bound by any of the natural law in the universe ....
will4848
post Apr 5 2019, 02:33 PM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ Apr 5 2019, 02:21 PM)
What so difficult for you to say God is not following (human) logic ?

why god need to follow human logic ??...if he create u then he need to follow your logic ....
let me ask u again, u sure he created the universe n everything ??  hmm.gif pls think again ..


If that is the case, everything breaks down. Then theists cannot assert that their God is loving, caring, merciful, almighty, all knowing, holy, eternal, ..... you name it you have it. Then the scriptures have no convincing power at all.

that is where all the problem started ...
everyone think god should be loving, caring, merciful, almighty, all knowing, holy, eternal .....
anyone meet/see god b4 ?  doh.gif that is just some of your imagination thing, is created by human itself ....
atheist or theist who belief this then they should call themselves as a blind faith follower ....


*
will4848
post Apr 8 2019, 04:13 PM

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QUOTE(Spear2 @ Apr 5 2019, 02:42 PM)
If God is out, then He is not in, so that's a dualistic concept too. So where is He now so that He is absolute?
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we in dualistic dimention, of course need to explain by comparing with "something" ....
when i say, god is outside n not inside, that is just my explanation by comparing inside n outside ....
word only explain the meaning, word wont show u the "truth" ....
if god is the creator then he should be absolute n cannot be perceived ...
the god that u all talking about actually is a "limited god" of u own imagination ....
deswai u found got so many problem like why god create evil, no free will n so on ....

will4848
post Apr 8 2019, 04:18 PM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ Apr 5 2019, 03:02 PM)
We are not sure if he believes in a God. But nevertheless, I am pretty sure he has a religion. In his religion, I am sure there are plenty of assertions without evidence. So whether he believes in God or not, he is in the same category as those other theists who believe in various religions which make plenty of assertions.

If logic is not needed, then whatever assertion has no meaning.
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i do believe god do exist but i dont believe they are the creator ....
yes, im a buddhist .... i tot u should know this earlier ....
got any question about buddhism ?? cool2.gif
will4848
post Apr 8 2019, 04:20 PM

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QUOTE(ramz @ Apr 5 2019, 02:50 PM)
Do you know what an atheist is? We are not convinced a god exist.  Think you very confused. We were talking to tariq that believes in God. So why you lump us as the same group? We have no faith coz we have no God we believe in. You have faith coz u have believe in a God. Just not the same type of God like tariq.
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any different if both side also belief in sumthing that cannot be proven ??
will4848
post Apr 8 2019, 04:24 PM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ Apr 8 2019, 04:22 PM)
If God is incomprehensible and lacks predictabity, then you also lose your ability to make any claims about him.
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deswai i said cannot perceived bruce.gif
will4848
post Apr 8 2019, 04:40 PM

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QUOTE(kmarc @ Apr 8 2019, 04:28 PM)
That's why I'm not asking the first question of whether God exist or not. It's pointless because believers, who has no proof, will say God exist.

My question is if you believe God exist, which God are you talking about?
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in buddhism these god actually is just a sentient being like us but of course they are very powerful ....
the different is that they live in heaven n once their time up they still will face death n go back into reincarnation ...


will4848
post Apr 8 2019, 04:50 PM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ Apr 8 2019, 04:43 PM)
We have nothing to impose to others. We just don't want others to impose on us. They can impose on those on who share the same belief.
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frankly speaking, who impose on u ? ...i think is more u impose it to yourself ....
i mean, u got leg n hand, u can do what ever u want ma ....
why must trap your own "thinking" into this kind of situation ??
will4848
post Apr 9 2019, 12:41 PM

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QUOTE(Spear2 @ Apr 9 2019, 07:46 AM)
In your imagination, what is God or Godlike?
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already said, cannot perceived .... simple english .... i dont know sad.gif
will4848
post Apr 9 2019, 12:42 PM

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QUOTE(Spear2 @ Apr 9 2019, 07:48 AM)
Is that also imagination?
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u seem to run out of idea or knowledge or wisdom ....
if i answer u, then u will ask again ...is real ?? ...it quite boring ...
why dont u reload your bullet n come out with new idea/point to debate ....
better than giving rubbish comment nod.gif
will4848
post Apr 9 2019, 12:48 PM

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QUOTE(mitun @ Apr 8 2019, 11:15 PM)
Is there any rational reason to believe that these sentient beings are real? A lot of what Buddhism teaches makes sense but these sentient beings are pointless. What is the difference between heaven and nirvana?
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the sutra did mention about those "invisible being" but is more for explaining the karma(law of causality) ....
deswai in buddhism very seldom talk about ghost or god or heavenly being ....they are not so important ....

heaven is the place that those heavenly being live......
nirvana is not a place/location, is just a state of mind ...
if u are enlighten, u will attained nirvana not go to nirvana ...
will4848
post Apr 9 2019, 12:55 PM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ Apr 8 2019, 05:13 PM)
You are blind or what ? Apostate law is an imposition. And LGBT is an imposition. Religious sermon is an imposition.
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QUOTE(ramz @ Apr 9 2019, 06:25 AM)
Then there is no debate. Why are religions asserting God exist? We didn't start the debate. Theist did. I'm happy with no proof. But when theist assert their god exist, I will criticise them. And islam not only comes with existence of God, it comes with a whole load of impositions. We must criticise those as they effect our lives.
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i wont say u are right or wrong ....
but i only can say, make sure you n your family eat well, sleep well n live well ...
we only live once in this live time n human is very fragile ....
just cherish thing that u have n not rant about thing that u dont have ....
will4848
post Apr 9 2019, 01:15 PM

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QUOTE(Spear2 @ Apr 9 2019, 08:42 AM)
It appears that the questions we are pondering here for a couple of pages are being articulated in this article,

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/25/opinion/...imonster=oembed
Quote,
As the late American philosopher Michael Martin has already pointed out, if God knows all that is knowable, then God must know things that we do, like lust and envy. But one cannot know lust and envy unless one has experienced them. But to have had feelings of lust and envy is to have sinned, in which case God cannot be morally perfect.

What about malice? Could God know what malice is like and still retain His divine goodness?

..... And if human beings know what it is like to want to inflict pain on others for pleasure’s sake, without any other benefit, then so does God. But to say that God knows what it is like to want to inflict pain on others is to say that God is capable of malicious enjoyment.

.... But if God doesn’t know what we know, God is not all knowing, and the concept of God is contradictory. God cannot be both omniscient and morally perfect. Hence, God could not exist.
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according to lowyat philosopher will4848 has already pointed out, how can human perceived god if human never get in touch/communicate with god ??
if human can know what god is thinking and know his ability, then he is not god ...
u wont call a miracle is a miracle if u know the outcome, right ? nod.gif
conclusion is, god cannot be perceived, human can only perceived their creativity n imagination tongue.gif
will4848
post Apr 11 2019, 02:29 PM

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QUOTE(Spear2 @ Apr 9 2019, 02:15 PM)
If cannot perceived, how do you know your God exists?
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i think u dont understand what i mean ....
1. i dont know god exist of not, n i never claimed god exist....so exist or not, i dont know ....
2. assuming god do exist, but i never encounter with god like telling me thing in dream or hearing voices ...
so either god exist or not, my answer is cannot perceived ....

but u as an atheist make so many assumption about god, like god is knowledgeable, lust, envy n malice ....
let me ask u, if u claimed god does not exist or u never have any contact with god .....
then where all these lust, envy n malice about god come from ??...
deswai i say what u perceived actually is your own creativity n imagination .... nod.gif


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