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> Atheists Agnostics Assemble, Ask and your answer will be served

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TSSpear2
post Aug 3 2018, 09:09 PM, updated 4 months ago

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We continue here with me as the TS, which IMO is better. Same rules same principles, we seek to enlighten, not to ridicule. However spinner and tab dancer are not welcome. Illogical or irrational discussion will be kicked out. To be fair, these discussion and behavior would be tolerated until it becomes meaningless, which continued posting will be deleted. With that said, I open the thread for all with a quote,

“For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command nor faith a dictum. I am my own god. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.”
― Charles Bukowski

This post has been edited by Spear2: Aug 3 2018, 09:10 PM
TSSpear2
post Aug 3 2018, 09:39 PM

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QUOTE(khairul88hazwan @ Aug 3 2018, 01:11 PM)
Islam is peaceful religion while the world is not... war will happen sooner or later... it is a matter of time... many group wants to take over this world like illuminati , Russia, China etc...

Islamic expansion is occuring.... yes its good if the world respect Islamic expansion through peace but no way the other group will just surrender the victory to Islam... so the jihad will be relevant until the end....

I will not let the Atheist spread their lowest pokemon ideology.... plus there can never dominate a single state... haha
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I will start with this leftover from a similar thread that was closed unexpectedly, maybe this is the reason why it was closed, someone complaint, so it must be censored ... So here goes nothing.

In fact waging wars clearly means Islam is not a peaceful religion. The act to dominate the world also clearly means Islam is not a peaceful religion. The same goes to Islam expansion and the jihad to achieve this, either you breed to expand or you wage war and dominate to expand, and from your post it is is likely to be both.

TSSpear2
post Aug 4 2018, 09:36 PM

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QUOTE(khairul88hazwan @ Aug 4 2018, 02:08 PM)
You are delusional... Islam has its enemies... Islam is the positive force...
Like it or not the negative force will counter it....

Through history you can see war every now and then... Islam has to fought for its survival and for growth in peaceful or even war if it has to survive.... Islam is not weak.... it has face the barbarian Mongol and won and its face Persian Force and Rome Force and won....

Now , after its empire collapse Muslim is kinda weak and get bullied a lot...  it will be different if all the Arab nation are united under one flag ....
The America wants to control the world by being Police of The World and to control the Arab and Islamic country... you cannot denied it...

Why eventhough the Nazi who do the holocaust and cruelty the Arab and Muslim country has to suffer by putting Israel in the middle of Arab Country?? ISLAM Will rise and put stop all these bullying and discrimination the negative force do to it in the future....

We will rise and become stronger in the future... Islam is a peaceful religion but it is not inferior... you can see it rise from the desert who has nothing and spread its powerful ideology through the world and help the western on ots reinassance era...
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Your comments are only good for coffee shop talk, no scholarship, no depth, no learning, only feel good among friends who would nod in agreement at every words said. You grabbed whatever you know, which is little and stitched them together haphazardly for an argument for Islam, like a street peddler slapping his palms together demonstrating the efficacy of his medicine, sure it can cure cancer.

Here read a bit more and come back with some learning and a better argument,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Baghdad_(1258)
Hulagu began his campaign in Iran with several offensives against Nizari groups, including the Assassins, who lost their stronghold of Alamut. He then marched on Baghdad, demanding that Al-Musta'sim accede to the terms imposed by Möngke on the Abbasids. Although the Abbasids had failed to prepare for the invasion, the Caliph believed that Baghdad could not fall to invading forces and refused to surrender. Hulagu subsequently besieged the city, which surrendered after 12 days. During the next week, the Mongols sacked Baghdad, committing numerous atrocities and destroying the Abbasids' vast libraries, including the House of Wisdom. The Mongols executed Al-Musta'sim and massacred many residents of the city, which was left greatly depopulated. The siege is considered to mark the end of the Islamic Golden Age, during which the caliphs had extended their rule from the Iberian Peninsula to Sindh, and which was also marked by many cultural achievements.[7]

Yes Islam empire will rise again but then will be slaughtered by Mongols again, so is that your argument too?
TSSpear2
post Aug 5 2018, 08:11 AM

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QUOTE(khairul88hazwan @ Aug 4 2018, 10:13 PM)
Plus please search wikipedia also what time Islamic army conquered Constantinople you shallow of history atheist
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Something must be messed up in your brain, sorry that I have to resort to this description but your posts seem to indicate you are shooting without thinking. You are contradicting yourself most of the time. Here is the Wiki

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Constantinople

It goes to show two obvious shortfalls of your argument, one is slapping the other. Islam expanded by warfare. Hence Islam is not a peace loving religion. Second, no one claims Islam did not rise and became great. No one. But in the later years Islam glorious civilization ended, it fell and up until today for the last 800 years or so it is in a pity state. If not for the abundant oil resources, it would have been worse. Lastly, this is a consolation, it's from Wiki too.

Oh well ... maybe I should just sit back and watch with amusement.


TSSpear2
post Aug 5 2018, 08:54 AM

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QUOTE(khairul88hazwan @ Aug 5 2018, 08:32 AM)
Firsy of all wikipedia is not fact... it is also written by people...bias people undermining Islam and its greatness....

Do you know that The Ottoman only fell 100 years ago??we will always rise back...

Islam is ideology and way of life. It has to fought for its survival same like the other ideology like democracy and communism...

Why on earth American send their army to wage war in Vietnam if not for its democracy ideology spreading and survival.... so your assumption is very weak and shallow....
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Another food for thought for you about Wiki. Wiki is written by people and corrected by people with a fair share of moderation. It's not accurate all the time. But it has references which you can check out. While your posts about Wiki or about Islam are your opinion alone. Infinitely worse than Wiki. Should I take what you said about Wiki and Islam or Wiki? Anyone with their right mind would take Wiki until you demonstrate with scholarship and learning what is specifically wrong with the article in Wiki. You have not and probably unable to. Prove me wrong instead of rhetoric and coffee shop talk. Rise up and meet the challenge.

Second point about Islam, it is very likely archaic Islam will never see day light again. What Muhammad envisioned for the world is dead. Unless there is some great catastrophe throwing earth back to the dark ages. Islam is undergoing transformation, it is changing, reforming to fit in the modern world. Those that do not change like ISIS or Iraq or Iran before the wars are eliminated and shunned by many Muslims. There are fundamental schism within sectarian tribes in the religion and it is getting wider. Even in Malaysia heed the call for reform by Muslims, for example underage marriage is a no-no today.

So you can continue to dream, 800 years have passed when the world was mostly ignorant 800 years ago, Islam civilization fell flat. Now we know infinitely more than 800 years ago, it will be next to impossible. You are going to add to the continued despair state of affairs for Islam. I am happy and that is being sarcastic.
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post Aug 5 2018, 08:56 AM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ Aug 5 2018, 08:51 AM)
SparkMarlene is spear2. You should have noticed that based on the style.
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smile.gif I am still alive with a different nick and remembered. That is a great payback for my efforts here ... haha
TSSpear2
post Aug 5 2018, 08:57 AM

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QUOTE(ramz @ Aug 5 2018, 08:21 AM)
You remember SpikeMarlene? where is he now?
I remember when i was still muslim, i gave up talking to anybody, coz no muslim wants to understand my problem. Even my spouse didn't want to understand my problem then (but now he reasons better than me about atheism sometimes). i just did my own research and concluded. Spikemarlene said something that triggered an avalance of thoughts. i remember u contributed to some of the discussions then. thank you for opening things up, puchongite.
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I am Spikemarlene and I hope I have became wiser over the years over the many discussions, some were silly I admit ... smile.gif
TSSpear2
post Aug 5 2018, 09:06 AM

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QUOTE(khairul88hazwan @ Aug 5 2018, 09:02 AM)
Saudi has trillion of dollars in its reserve... the problem is on their spending...

They spend too much and oil price is not the same as before...

400,000? So little... our islamic studies is like 4 billion peer written ... islam has exist more than 1000 years... comparing atheism and islamic studies is like peanuts and giant....

Islam doesnot halt any scientific progress while in fact it promotes us to reseach god creation... plus many scientist take their ideas from nature...like creating robots that mimic spider movement, etc

Islam will rise and there are data that supports it..... can you give me atheist contribution to this world and where are they 500 years ago when Islamic Empire on its peak...

Forget to add this link https://www.google.com/amp/s/bigthink.com/p...-the-future.amp
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4 billion research papers on one book and a bunch of Hadith which led to nothing much. Most hard sciences come from atheist scientists, and Muslim scientists by population ratio contribution is dismal, almost negligible.

Again you are speaking from your personal point of view which is likely to be wrong. Let's test it. Show me where did you get the 4 billion peer written papers. I bet you can't.
TSSpear2
post Aug 5 2018, 09:17 AM

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QUOTE(khairul88hazwan @ Aug 5 2018, 09:12 AM)
Muslim scientist is small and contribution is small... wow... how foolish are you?? Guess i just out of this forum... no point talks with the foolish....
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2nd homework for you, please show with data Muslim scientists contribution in science. What is the ratio/percentage? I am still waiting for the 4 billion papers claim.

Prove me wrong.
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post Aug 5 2018, 09:25 AM

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QUOTE(rzam @ Aug 4 2018, 11:42 PM)
who effing cares of what you think?

debate is where someone is to point out their views
and answering their claims to prove them with evidence
else,we all know that your claim is just emotional,not intellectual
its made public so that people can judge for themselves
not to find who is the winner or looser

in almost all cases i cant seem to find a good atheist debate
except between atheist and christians

i'am imagining people like urself are like this dude
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There are a few good Muslim debaters, but most like you get too emotional and start throwing nonsense and making tall claims. Debates are not really useful because it takes say 1 hour to check what one can claim in 10 seconds, so it only appeal to feel good if you can sound confident regardless it is true or logical or rational. The 2nd problem is the general difference with many atheists and believers, like scientists, many of us speak in reservation, it is apparently true, it is likely to be true while believers do not have the burden to shore up their claims and statements because basically religions are just beliefs ...

However in carefully crafted forum like this, you can't run away when you are called out. We can wait for a day or a week for you to response with evidence or data.
TSSpear2
post Aug 5 2018, 12:14 PM

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QUOTE(khairul88hazwan @ Aug 5 2018, 09:02 AM)
Saudi has trillion of dollars in its reserve... the problem is on their spending...

They spend too much and oil price is not the same as before...

400,000? So little... our islamic studies is like 4 billion peer written ... islam has exist more than 1000 years... comparing atheism and islamic studies is like peanuts and giant....

Islam doesnot halt any scientific progress while in fact it promotes us to reseach god creation... plus many scientist take their ideas from nature...like creating robots that mimic spider movement, etc

Islam will rise and there are data that supports it..... can you give me atheist contribution to this world and where are they 500 years ago when Islamic Empire on its peak...

Forget to add this link https://www.google.com/amp/s/bigthink.com/p...-the-future.amp
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The link shows as many of us knew for sometime now the main reason for the growth of Islam is Muslim has a larger family than average. IOW the growth of Islam is not because more adults joining Islam but people born into Islam indoctrinated when they are young and find it hard to leave Islam for reasons like the apostasy death threats and family ties. Islam philosophy and doctrine are not the reasons of growth implies a religion of decay. This is supported by observation of the world, other factors do come into play but generally Muslim nations are impoverished low literacy and knowledge about science and constantly struggling some struggles are violent.
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post Aug 5 2018, 05:05 PM

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QUOTE(khairul88hazwan @ Aug 5 2018, 01:47 PM)
Islam will always prevail... Islam is destined to be the Greatest.... through peace or war Islam will rise... atheist is just tiny and insignificant to the rise of Islam ...

https://www.facebook.com/KJVids/videos/1761845367203077/
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Perhaps. But it is definitely not Muhammad's Islam. Because the original version of Islam kills the human mind, so it will sooner or later disintegrate into chaos. We see that in the middle east or where Islam fundamentalism touches. So when you speak of Islam you are confused which Islam. There will be disputes then cracks then violence then war between factions in Islam. You can't survive in ISIS or Taliban style of Islam nor you can stand the liberal Islam practiced by many westerner Muslims like Reza Azlan or the Shia version in Iran. So what Islam you have in mind or you are just day dreaming...
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post Aug 5 2018, 09:28 PM

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QUOTE(khairul88hazwan @ Aug 5 2018, 07:25 PM)
Seriously you talk this like your coffee shop talking... no based of knowledge of world politics... i just can say study more about Islam and you will be enlightened...

https://youtu.be/TpcbfxtdoI8

Here is the video i shared with you so that you know the basis of islam....
I have made my mind to die as Muslim but i really hope you also revert to Islam as we will open up to you.. i am kinda pity with you now...
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So which version of Islam would you choose then? ISIS, Taliban, Shia, Wahhabism, Quranist, Ahmadiyya, etc.... which you would rather die as?

This post has been edited by Spear2: Aug 5 2018, 09:29 PM
TSSpear2
post Aug 5 2018, 09:30 PM

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QUOTE(rzam @ Aug 5 2018, 07:17 PM)
ive already answered your question about the hadith in simple plain explanation
which u cannot apprehend or even understand the logic rclxub.gif

your question about the existance of God,
is your question valid? are you contradicting yourself?

answer on video link, if u dont have time,than u can skip to 8.35

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Another guy who thinks video is everything, better than Wiki, amazing ...
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post Aug 5 2018, 10:53 PM

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QUOTE(rzam @ Aug 5 2018, 10:02 PM)
lol the fact that you put that video about zakir naik contradicts your first statement
"selectively quote certain videos or texts to make himself feel good."

truth hurts doesnt it?
lollll
oh no here we go again..
are you seriously saying that "Debates are not really useful?"
than what are you doing here? trolling?

when our leaders are in the parliament,addressing new laws and regulations
are they chit chatting and drinking coffee?
doh.gif

truth hurts i know this
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I agree, you are right, truth hurts. Let's debate. Please present your argument back with evidence. Since you claim God exists, please present evidence and argument. Don't run away. Don't spin. Be rational and honest. I wait your response ...
TSSpear2
post Aug 5 2018, 10:54 PM

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QUOTE(khairul88hazwan @ Aug 5 2018, 10:51 PM)
Have you watch this video?

https://youtu.be/TpcbfxtdoI8

You must do homework first before we have debate.... i cannot debate with zero person...
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Why you guys cannot even answer a simple question, chatter77, you, rzam, ... which version of Islam you chose to die as? Why would you choose it?
TSSpear2
post Aug 6 2018, 07:40 AM

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QUOTE(khairul88hazwan @ Aug 5 2018, 10:56 PM)
Hmm... just want to know... how stupid are you? 0 knowledge of Islam ?
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So you can't answer? This implies your Islam world domination is false because there is no united Islam, there are factions and they are odds with each other. Even today you see this in regional conflicts perpetrated by sectarianism within Islam.
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post Aug 6 2018, 07:49 AM

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QUOTE(rzam @ Aug 6 2018, 12:38 AM)
tell me about wiki summore..freaking hilarious!
come one fellow atheist,u gotta have better proof other than wiki
if it was for a school project than thats totally fine
lollllll

Since you claim God exists
since when did i made such claims?

all i see is you that is claiming about Islam:

"In fact waging wars clearly means Islam is not a peaceful religion. The act to dominate the world also clearly means Islam is not a peaceful religion. The same goes to Islam expansion and the jihad to achieve this, either you breed to expand or you wage war and dominate to expand, and from your post it is is likely to be both."

easily answered by this debate

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Street debate is your reference? Better than wiki? Maybe because you can't debate here with your own words, you are resorting to posting of these videos to win some brownie points?

I think you can do better than that. You are in a discussion forum, isn't this is the place where you can put out your argument, articulate them and make a stand. Come now, the arguments made by that video have been debunked many times over. Which argument you want me to address here?
TSSpear2
post Aug 6 2018, 11:27 AM

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QUOTE(khairul88hazwan @ Aug 6 2018, 11:05 AM)
“When the foolish one speaks, do not reply to him, for better than a response (to him) is silence, and if you speak to him you have aided him, and if you left him (with no reply) in extreme sadness he dies.” – Imām Shāfi’ī
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Then we move on to your tall claims, 4 billion peer reviewed papers written on Islam and that Muslim scientists have contributed their fair share to science based on population ratio. 2 chunks of homework, do you have answers or you continue to evade?
TSSpear2
post Aug 6 2018, 02:11 PM

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QUOTE(rzam @ Aug 6 2018, 12:38 AM)

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Did you listen to this crab street debate? Hitler was a believer, he was a Christian, not exactly an atheist. In fact everyone reference morality comes from the well being of oneself and others. You want to be happy and you want people close to you to be happy. That is the main reason why you can evaluate and think about the morality in the Quran for example. Or if these texts should be meant as a deterrent not as a command to punish people and cause them great suffering etc ... The fact you can interpret any statements given, means there is some references inside you that guide your selection ... the reason why also there are many interpretations around. Imagine if everyone is a blank slate, read and execute as it is ...

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