To Whom It May Concern!!!!!

Hope this post can share out to the public. I have been investing with a company call PCM (Not many company under EPF investment scheme) for the last 5 years by using EPF account and until today still making lost. The company make profit by charging us interest and fees of thousands and they can't even help their client to make profit after 5 years.

What I have lost throughout this 5 years?

1) The company charges and fees.
2) Investment lost
3) EPF interest around 5% a year. (If 100k you will lost about 15k of interest. Gradually increase to pump in capital for investment)

DON'T EVER INVEST YOUR EPF HARD EARNED MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DON'T LISTEN TO THE SWEET TALK BY THE AGENT. THEY HAVE A LOT OF PRODUCTS TO CONVINCE YOU. I call to cancel 2 years ago and they convince me to invest into agriculture share which is sweet to listen but after 2 years still is craps.

OK, INVESTMENT CANNOT GUARANTEE PROFIT. YES, I ACCEPTED BUT I WANT TO SHARE MY EXPERIENCE HERE.

u shd invest in Public Mutual Fund and get a good agent

Hi TS, why not choose ASN products?

can please elaborate more on this? I have an aunty that recommended me to invest with Public Mutual.
I trust her because she herself earns a lot monthly, very credible and financially stable.
I dont think she'd cheat me lol. So I have yet to meet her to hear more about T&C maybe

think of it as lesson. there is no free lunch and there is no guaranteed easy money. believe everything you hear and soon it is your loss

some agent dont do work just find customer to sign in. they toss all the account to the principal to take care .

public mutual is not suppose to earn on a short time period, if your aunt told you she earn good by month count then you should google more

1. Why did you went for this company?

There are other bigger and more trusted unit trust companies out there

2. Now share market is bad, both Malaysia and global. So its to be expect that unit trust are a little down this year.

Not all EPF investment are bad.

oh no what i meant is that she's stable with her high paying job and etc.
ROI is annually if im not mistaken, right?

This PCM company appointed by EPF. This PCM will get customer and use their EPF to invest. I'm doubting how come EPF allow this company to handle investment for EPF's contributor. EPF own investment are good, that's why they can pay 5% and above interest every year.

Gary, thanks for sharing your true experience.

Many of my friends have also lost money as result of investing in unit trust from the EPF account

What investor must realise is that there is management fee charged and also different price between buying and selling

For short term of 2 to 3 yrs, you could lose money.

Mid term 5 to 7 years may break even or make small profit

Long term.. Who wants to see so far to the future

But some funds do outperform EPF but important to see the net impact after deducted management fees etc

There are unit trust that can beat EPF returns. The most famous example is Kenanga Growth Fund. Kenanga is also allowed to handle investment from EPF member money.

And this time period is not a good time even for Kenanga Growth Fund, as stock market in Malaysia and Asia are generally down.

However I believe things can go up from here. Malaysia share market have rebounded from the 2018 lows and should slowly climb.

But yeah, if you are risk averse, you should have just stuck with EPF.

This is exactly a unit trust concept and if you want to see huge profit go invest SHARE which have higher risk

To TS,

Did you read their T & C before invest about the admin fee, performance and etc etc?
Go with Public Mutual which is well known

When the market i not good, is also the best time to invest as well...can buy more units with lower price generally...

Still the old saying, don’t put all your eggs in one basket. I think EPF’s stable return is good enough already. Only if you have extra cash to spare you should go for unit trust with higher risk. In this way you do not lose everything and will have decent return and risk.

This post has been edited by victorian: Jul 26 2018, 09:36 PM

Agent: Thanks to all the stupids who contribute to my "insert supercar here"

I think it really depends.

Yes unit trusts generally require longer investment horizons and there are many asset classes to choose from. Need to know where the fund invests in and what ratio/asset types. Those could affect your investment horizons.

Some of my funds are showing returns at +13% pa so far in 2018. Last year my fund that invests mainly in China tech companies gave 30+%. These funds I only hold less than 2 yrs.

Of course some other funds gave me less like 4% only. Those lower returns/risk type usually require >5 yrs holding.

same old case.. i have some investment there for few years and regretted. ROI still lower than EPF interest...withdrew all ... chart will show you up to 20% but actual case 3-4% after yearly maintenance this and that charges..

Investments using EPF for public mutual is limited to that very few types of fund only

This post has been edited by loki: Jul 27 2018, 11:26 AM

I think I am the only person who lost money in Public Mutual China Fund 10 years ago.

I just spoke to a Maybank wealth consultant, recommending Affin Hwang Funds. Any input on this?

Thanks TS for sharing.

Did you do your homework before you invest or just blindly trust what the agent said?

I'm not sure which funds can be invested in from EPF accounts, but the few criteria's that I looked for when investing unit trust is:

1. Fund inception - has to be at least 5 years, so you can see the performance history and how they can recover from market correction.

2. Fund size - If fund size too small, fund manager cannot do much, no money to invest, and then performance drop. When performance drop people sell their units and end up manager have to sell their investment at a loss to get cash for the unit holders who are selling.

3. Master Funds - Most fund houses have a few master funds which are the core funds. These funds most likely have existed for quite some time, have sizeable fund size, and well managed. Do no invest in niche market unit trusts like a single country unit trust, or single sector unit trust. You don't want your retirement fund to be going through roller coaster.

4. Regular Investment - I am not sure investment from EPF can be done in this way, but the safest way to invest is to do it on a timely basis e.g. bi-weekly or monthly so you don't have to time the market. If you invest lump sum and very unlucky you invested at the high point of the market, it will take you some time before you can see profit from your investment.

In my opinion, I will not take my EPF funds out for investment as they have been giving very good returns all these years. Consistently 5-6% or more is a very return for something as good as FD.

The initial charge 3% and annual management fee will eat u up, EPF is consistently paying u around 6% return.

The breakeven return is roughly 10%, without double digit return, i consider that as a loss to u.

Exactly! EPF still allow this kind of agency also the problem. I believe a lot of peoples are the victim of losses.

Always check what the funds are investing in. See whether you are comfortable with the holdings.

Equity now abit shaky with the trade wars going on. However I would say still worth investing in US equity now. I would stay away from bonds at this point in time.

To get a sense of how much ratio equity/bonds you should invest in, look up the 110 age method.

Forget about those funds. Look into their management fees. More often than not, the fund returns have a hard time beating the benchmark because of these fees.

If I were you, leave it in EPF. Any extra funds you have, invest in ETFs. If you feel you understand a business or believe in a business, then invest in its stock.

Public mutual? I can think of better unit trusts funds to put into. I rather leave it in EPF if it's public mutual.

There's a fund investment board here in lowyat, and many who are pretty savvy in this, I'd suggest you go there and have a look. If you want to skim out on agent's fee and you dont mind doing your own research and putting your own time in investing into which unit trusts funds, you can checkout platforms like fundsupermart

This post has been edited by 22: Jul 28 2018, 12:25 PM

Yes, I support ur statement, last month i dun think public mutual fund perform good, more loses than gain.
This month not sure.

Public mutual i lost all...
Maybe that time economy no good....
Buy at 30 sen lost at 12~15 sen....almost half...
In the end sold all and put in FD....

Yes your aunty earn alot coz each transactions they charge fees.
She didnt cheat u. Just that u will actually get less back when u want to close account compared to just leaving it in epf

EPF give people choices because some don't believe EPF and think they can make more money elsewhere.
Not EPF fault, you choose to invest without fully knowing the risk and return.

It's very simple. Do a bit of homework and look at the credentials of fund managers in PNB / EPF/ Khazanah. All from Oxford / Cambridge / London school of economics. You think our gomen so stupid employ people from mickey mouse university and lalabeng to manage the national funds ?


This post has been edited by Chrono-Trigger: Jul 28 2018, 10:52 PM

Better to leave it in EPF for the time being. EPF give very good returns, risk free. Excess funds you may put in a UT bond fund or try to invest into stocks through broker if you know what you are doing. Equity UT is kinda risky due to most fund manager tend to makan gaji buta. You can try to look into Kenanga Growth fund or some do some research on other well managed equity UT fund.

This.

I make my own decision on all ut transaction including epf ut investment. Only 1 fund is making a loss, the rest all profit ar~ consider urself badluck. Ut is long term investment, long term doesnt mean u can leave ur fund without monitoring la, sometimes u gotta do the switching to cut off further loss.

It is a pity that TS had such a bad experience with his UT investments managed by PCM.

Leaving your money in EPF is always a good choice unless you are confident that you can withdraw your EPF savings to earn more from your investments than the EPF. In the past, PCM offered to me (not sure about now) managed services on a non-discretionary basis for my EPF investment withdrawals ie no need to invest in UT but directly into Bursa equities. Was lucky but be warned that risks are higher if you like to speculative.

As usual the following from their website applies:- "Management fees, Service Fees, Custodian Charges and other charges are applicable". Pax.

Don't doubt EPF, they are doing better (calculating risk and return) than 'Fund' out there.

I once show the calculation to my public mutual agent friend who trying to convince me to buy where EPF is giving higher return based on previous years performance.

My friend terus diam and stop approaching me since then.

Yes, that's what I told the agent make sure the return must at 7% per year which higher than EPF Interest %. But PCM fail year after years. Vampire company suck our hard earn blood money.

dont trust other to manage my money, simple fact

My public mutual in PRS also making losses for the last two years, I just hope to get 3% return from the funds and some tax benefits as well.

Public Mutual call me today about EPF investment. I already into KLSE stock now since two year ago when I want to invest. After listening to all. I think it better to keep it in EPF. It time for one to sit down and discuss with the fund manager what is the chance to recover the loss. My last forex investment with Ambank with capital grty earn my RM30/= in interest after 3 year. I never go into anything with Forex again.

i agreed with this. EPF stable n almost proven dividen return is quite ok. unless u wanna hit big but have to take high risk

MOST of the people I know that invested in EPF investment scheme cannot afford to invest using their monthly income. Monthly salary all gone to pay debt and expenses.

That's why die die wanna use EPF when want to invest in unit trust.
When agent talk cock then blindly believe.

Agent only ask to buy buy buy. Very rare to find agent advise u to sell when the time is right. Once invested, buat tak kesah.

Then after few months come find u again and ask to invest more.

KEK.

TS, there is no guarantee profit in investment

If they can guarantee, then they no need to be your agent

I got many office colleagues who do selling this epf investment thingy since 4 years ago. 1 things i down agree was the fees for selling shares etc for the agent or company. Hence setting it down under epf which averagely got moderate interest per year.

1. Mutual company want profit.... Its a business. Of course wants profits
2. Agents wants commission and extra pocket money.

Their target is you!

Whatever you invested in, even if the fund manager plays it well, get 20% out of it, they will still show in the man made graph you got only 4-5%. Of courselah, the rest of it is for their profits.

So they continue to get ppl to invest and will promise anything just to get more money from you.

My dad lost money in public mutual unit trust.. He screwed the rep upside down.. Unit trust is bshit actually.. Now I manage my dad's fund by investing directly in bursa

Another scenario of unit trust agent. Good that u really know how to invest in bursa of ur dad fund.