to which I've explained before....Justification before Man. I never say it's for the Jews.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jul 25 2018, 09:58 AM

that is very interesting theology you have there

Look at who the writer is hinting to. He's talking about horizontal.

Love Demands Action
Grace Demands Action
Faith Demands Action


16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

Also this


Philippians 1:6 (KJV) - Being confident of this very thing, that HE which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:


again speaks of the work of God in our lives. Our part is to keep confessing, believing THEN walk in it.

*this is for you desmond.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jul 25 2018, 10:09 AM

amen to that


"Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it."
Matthew 7:24‭-‬27 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.7.24-27.ESV

justification before men, horizontal or whatever is your word


not what bible said

but that is what the Bible is saying, not me.

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
James 2:14‭-‬26 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jas.2.14-26.ESV

Who is the writer hinting to? God or Man? Who needs the food, cloth, Protection (Rahab) etc? Who is being justified here? Who is "show me" And "I will show you" & "You see" referring to?

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jul 25 2018, 10:17 AM

I don't do davinci code as method of bible study


so sorry don't work for me

Okay I will try another way to help you understand.

The way to understand this is to understand, the Bible does not contradict itself, you agree?

If Ephesians 2:8 says:

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--

And

Look at these few other verses:

Romans 3:24
and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Romans 9:16
So then, it does not depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.

Ephesians 2:5
made us alive with Christ, even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved!

All these verses dismantle the dependency of works. And Romans 11:6 nails it quite strongly

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

If you say the Book of James advocate justification for works..the all those verses just flew out of the window.

So which is which now?

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jul 25 2018, 10:26 AM

you are putting word in my mouth again


I never say justified by work, that is what hyper grace typical allege their opponent is


I quote bible and you put word into it


FAITH DEMANDS ACTION


DID YOU UNDERSTAND IT?

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Jul 25 2018, 10:30 AM

Do you also agree Fruits of the Holy Spirit is the result of the works you demand to see?
Do you also Agree God is the one who does the internal work first before you are able to do good works?

Question: how do you get the fruits? You force it out by your will power?

I just very sure tha one cant get HS by reading UW sermon

I am trying to follow but just to make sure that I am understanding it right, is this discussion now ...

1. Salvation comes from faith alone ; OR
2. Salvation comes from both faith & good works.

Hence the question which is which, right or did I miss out anything substantial in between ?

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Jul 26 2018, 07:23 AM

to be Frank hyper grace or easy believism people think you just need to believe to be saved. so far so good right? then they believe any work is not allowed, you only need to believe and receiving.


that seems to suggest there are genuine faith that dont produce good work.


book of james never suggest salavation by work. it just saying genuine faith is inseparable from good work because good work complete the faith.


end of rant.

Faith doesn't demand anything. Faith doesn't coerce, doesn't obligates, doesn't force, doesn't threaten - a person to do any work. Faith simply creates a desire, or a suggestion, that a person should do the right work. But our flesh also does the same thing. Often times, when faith suggest something that we should do, our flesh will suggest an opposing work. So we are always left with two choices, to follow the desire of faith or to follow the desire of flesh.

For example, when I see a man lying injured on a remote road, my faith will suggest me to help that man. But at the same time my flesh will also tell me to run away because my flesh will often provides a supporting logic as to why I should run away. Maybe that man is faking it, or maybe he is a bait, and there are some bandits hiding and waiting to ambush me while I am helping the man.

So this is the common battle between faith vs flesh in our conscience throughout our daily activities.

Most christians like me are more incline to follow the flesh rather than faith. If I am able to reach 100% obedience to faith, and 0% obedience to flesh, then I can say that I have killed the flesh, that I have murdered the flesh, just like what Paul said. And I live in the Spirit, through faith alone, because my faith is strong and ALIVE and not dead as James explain it clearly in his book. So we should always "work out" (or exercise) our faith, because if we don't, our faith will eventually become dead as it will always going to lose to the flesh if we have no bias towards it.

Faith demands Action.

What you have just discoursed on, is the flesh. That's does not preclude Faith demands Action.


Romans 4

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.


If Abraham just believed without ACTING, Isaaac would not have been born!

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Jul 26 2018, 12:09 PM

Well if God defends and provide people who "easily" believe in Him and it's working proof that the doctrine is correct then I rather subscribe to that than what you think works.

Because if you could share your testimony to what you believe in, how have God been working in your life, would you care to share?

Whether you use the word good works completes Faith or it's "inseparable", in other words, good works is required for Salvation no matter you word it and you know that is how the rationality is.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jul 26 2018, 02:23 PM

You can insult me all you want, but I pray the HS will open up the revelation to you.

*practicing loving my enemies as how Christ has asked his disciples.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jul 26 2018, 02:32 PM

work complete faith is direct quote from bible


if you have problem with bible then probably you should change to other religion