It says there Salvation is a Gift, not a result of works.

The works part doesn't come from you anyway. It comes from God.

Don't just quote that few verses. Take a look at another verse


Philippians 2:13 (NIV) - for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

And the power to do that all coincide with what I've just shared in the latest devotion.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jul 25 2018, 09:57 AM

to which I've explained before....Justification before Man. I never say it's for the Jews.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jul 25 2018, 09:58 AM

Look at who the writer is hinting to. He's talking about horizontal.

Also this


Philippians 1:6 (KJV) - Being confident of this very thing, that HE which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:


again speaks of the work of God in our lives. Our part is to keep confessing, believing THEN walk in it.

*this is for you desmond.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jul 25 2018, 10:09 AM

but that is what the Bible is saying, not me.

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
James 2:14‭-‬26 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jas.2.14-26.ESV

Who is the writer hinting to? God or Man? Who needs the food, cloth, Protection (Rahab) etc? Who is being justified here? Who is "show me" And "I will show you" & "You see" referring to?

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jul 25 2018, 10:17 AM

Okay I will try another way to help you understand.

The way to understand this is to understand, the Bible does not contradict itself, you agree?

If Ephesians 2:8 says:

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--

And

Look at these few other verses:

Romans 3:24
and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Romans 9:16
So then, it does not depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.

Ephesians 2:5
made us alive with Christ, even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved!

All these verses dismantle the dependency of works. And Romans 11:6 nails it quite strongly

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

If you say the Book of James advocate justification for works..the all those verses just flew out of the window.

So which is which now?

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jul 25 2018, 10:26 AM

Do you also agree Fruits of the Holy Spirit is the result of the works you demand to see?
Do you also Agree God is the one who does the internal work first before you are able to do good works?

Question: how do you get the fruits? You force it out by your will power?

Well if God defends and provide people who "easily" believe in Him and it's working proof that the doctrine is correct then I rather subscribe to that than what you think works.

Because if you could share your testimony to what you believe in, how have God been working in your life, would you care to share?

Whether you use the word good works completes Faith or it's "inseparable", in other words, good works is required for Salvation no matter you word it and you know that is how the rationality is.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jul 26 2018, 02:23 PM

You can insult me all you want, but I pray the HS will open up the revelation to you.

*practicing loving my enemies as how Christ has asked his disciples.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jul 26 2018, 02:32 PM

Well because, in your earlier post, you mentioned

"to be Frank hyper grace or easy believism people think you just need to believe to be saved. so far so good right? then they believe any work is not allowed, you only need to believe and receiving."

Implying works is needed to be saved.

Then later you said

"book of james never suggest salavation by work"

So which is which?

Erm, I don't have problem with the Bible, just your unqualified attack, I have a problem with.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jul 26 2018, 03:50 PM

No I don't have selective bible reading or selective memoy because I remembered quite vividly...

As I've said works required in the book of James is NOT for the justification of Salvation before God.

But that doesn't put away what you've just said...because according to you Faith In Christ is not enough to Salvation, you hinted more. So what is it? Works or...?

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jul 26 2018, 08:31 PM

Morning Fellow Believers;

It's good that we are all discussing this.

I just want to make a couple of points.


In the book of James Chapter 2, when scripture gives the example:

"Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food" It is NO Point to just "wish" the person well. It's hypocritical to just wish well but you don't don't do anything. Why? BECAUSE the brother or sister is in NEED! That is the point. That is what it means Faith without Works is dead.

Another example when it comes to God.

If God tells you to do something and you don't do it...or that when God word promises something to you BUT you don't act like it, Your life, the way you live (for example) when God tells you to be kind and gentle, but you act out your FLESH character of being RUDE, or that God promises to provide or promise to bless you but you don't believe that and go all out to fight your own life by your effort, Your Faith is Dead. Meaning it's not alive. Why? BECAUSE! you don't believe what God says..your inaction basically mean that.

BUT does it mean you will lose your Salvation because you don't act? No where the Lord says in the book of James..If you don't work, You will lose your Salvation.

So to propagate the idea, that your Faith in Christ is not enough to Salvation, it must have the role of your works, you're propagating your own works is needed for Salvation. NO matter you want to rephrase or use whatever words...but that is what you're saying, Jesus being a savior is not enough, you need to be little part of savior too.

HECK to very meaning of Savior means you can't save yourself, hence that title of Savior only befits Jesus and never you or whatever you attempt to do.

That is my point.

God bless guys. Thanks Yaokb.

Actually no matter what you post, whoever preacher you quote; there are many questions I asked you to which you are unable to answer. Or that you ignored.

That tells me you could not refute the matter at hand. If truly, you think you are right, give your answers.

If you can't and all you're capable of is throwing insults and sarcasm that doesn't befit of a Christian, that tells me you don't know enough.

Hi there,

It sounds right to me..which part is unacceptable?

* I like what was said:

So many times we try to lock ourselves into a "humanized" version of God.

That has lead us to think God is like us humans, the way we think and act. This relates very much to the doctrines we believe. There are some of us who cannot comprehend, God is really that good, it sounds to good to be true...easy believism, etc etc.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jul 27 2018, 10:01 AM

It's not the matter of only I'm right, but where is your point? You don't seem to be answering.

I did ask you so many questions...many of them you either ignore or don't seem to be interested to make yourself clear.

Don't blame others of being only right when you yourself aren't trying.

You seem to care a lot, hence you should answer.

Yes don't mix truth and lie to correlate if you know or don't know.

Irony of who is sitting on the throne here.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jul 27 2018, 11:07 AM

That's a very bad excuse to use, to cover up for your refusal to make your point clear.

You are not following Biblical principles.

First of all, you are no where near qualified to judge anyone to be a fake teacher. Be it me or anyone.

Second, you go against the principle of judging others.

Third, Titus 3:2 says "to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and always to be gentle toward everyone."

If you want to be that rude, can I equally say, you are not following Christ based on these 3 premises?


* The Irony of Faith without works is dead.....
** The Irony of "you are the one sitting on the throne on judgment day?". Double
*** Afraid of drilling down the crude details (Afraid that what was shared could be right), shows unwillingness to learn then use excuses to cover up.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jul 27 2018, 11:46 AM

Hi again, I presume you're a Christian so my perspective below is from Christian perspective.

That is because God isn't Human. He is God, And as how you said it, "we expect", God to act the way we expect, thinking from humanize perspective. That God should at least respond asap when we expect Him to.

Yes it's hard, when you needed to hear from God and He is silent. I went through that phase and my advise is for you to be patience, to labor to enter into peace. Why? Because God speaks the loudest when we are at peace.

Hebrews 4:11 (NIV) - Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

I know it's an oxymoron situation. How to be at peace when you're troubled and YET the Bible tells us...to labor or strive for it. For a good reason, so that we can connect to God soonest and hear from Him.

You need to know this: Sometime the predicament that we go through is not because of God but because of the Enemy's attack and sometime it can be our own fault. God is sovereign and never make mistakes hence the fault usually lies with us.

Hope that helps and hope I can learn better what's troubling you.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jul 27 2018, 01:45 PM

You'd think Abraham would have said No?

but He kinda of, feared for his life and didn't tell the truth of his wife Sarah, on 2 occasions, saying she's her sister.

Almost cause a king to sleep with her unknowingly.