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 Is now a good time to enter?

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normanTE
post May 7 2019, 04:43 PM

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QUOTE(stickmanchong17 @ Mar 8 2019, 10:53 PM)
Is now a good time to enter? This is a good question which no one has an answer.
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YES IT IS BEST TIME TO ENTER MARCH 2019
I ENTERED APRIL 2019 4200USD
directional changed.
exdtan
post May 14 2019, 01:53 PM

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I hesitated to enter during April when it is only 15K per bitcoin ! And now I regret. Because I would have earn at least 110% of my capital investment if I didnt hesitate lol. Really it is all up to what you believe.

Cryptocurrency is the future for finance and the only problem is we do not know when it will stabilize.
SUSAlan K.
post Nov 4 2019, 01:39 AM

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QUOTE(exdtan @ May 14 2019, 01:53 PM)
I hesitated to enter during April when it is only 15K per bitcoin ! And now I regret. Because I would have earn at least 110% of my capital investment if I didnt hesitate lol. Really it is all up to what you believe.

Cryptocurrency is the future for finance and the only problem is we do not know when it will stabilize.
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Cryptocurrency is NOT, & will NEVER be the future of finance!

It is too volatile as a store of value, & has neither an intrinsic value, nor is capable of being valued according to fundamental analysis.

It is only a speculative tool for fast profits.

That is all vmad.gif mad.gif
exdtan
post Nov 4 2019, 09:22 PM

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QUOTE(Alan K. @ Nov 4 2019, 01:39 AM)
Cryptocurrency is NOT, & will NEVER be the future of finance!

It is too volatile as a store of value, & has neither an intrinsic value, nor is capable of being valued according to fundamental analysis.

It is only a speculative tool for fast profits.

That is all  vmad.gif  mad.gif
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I remember telling my dad that bitcoin would roast like no other investment could do in the past. I remember also asking my dad to loan me his credit card to purchase 20 units of bitcoin back in 2010, which he said I was being silly so it never happen.

Look at bitcoin now. Look at your FD, your future contract and your stock prices. These have values because you count them and weight them based on what you believe the company/bank notes/gold worth. Same goes to cryptocurrency, its worth is based on what majority perceive.

And you are saying ?

Back then people trade food etc and basically anything physical and in exchange get what they want. And slowly people come out with bank note, then stock share paper, then now a softcopy contract for almost everything, FD, future you name it.

What is stopping you from viewing crypto contract as a form of currency ?


SUSAlan K.
post Nov 4 2019, 09:30 PM

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QUOTE(exdtan @ Nov 4 2019, 09:22 PM)
I remember telling my dad that bitcoin would roast like no other investment could do in the past. I remember also asking my dad to loan me his credit card to purchase 20 units of bitcoin back in 2010, which he said I was being silly so it never happen.

Look at bitcoin now. Look at your FD, your future contract and your stock prices. These have values because you count them and weight them based on what you believe the company/bank notes/gold worth. Same goes to cryptocurrency, its worth is based on what majority perceive.

And you are saying ?

Back then people trade food etc and basically anything physical and in exchange get what they want. And slowly people come out with bank note, then stock share paper, then now a softcopy contract for almost everything, FD, future you name it.

What is stopping you from viewing crypto contract as a form of currency ?
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there is your problem right there. everything is assigned a value, yes. I agree. No disputing that. TBH, Cryptos don't exude a lot of confidence. It needs a huge change in perspective before it can fulfill itself as a medium. Right now, it's just a speculative tool for 'goreng'. Got in early, got out at the peak, good on yah thumbsup.gif You made the right decision, but to compare with stocks & FD? How is it even the same? Again, people believe what they want to believe. But to me, cryptos are just backed by mathematics. Nothing intrinsic.
exdtan
post Nov 5 2019, 11:01 PM

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QUOTE(Alan K. @ Nov 4 2019, 09:30 PM)
there is your problem right there. everything is assigned a value, yes. I agree. No disputing that. TBH, Cryptos don't exude a lot of confidence. It needs a huge change in perspective before it can fulfill itself as a medium. Right now, it's just a speculative tool for 'goreng'. Got in early, got out at the peak, good on yah  thumbsup.gif  You made the right decision, but to compare with stocks & FD? How is it even the same? Again, people believe what they want to believe. But to me, cryptos are just backed by mathematics. Nothing intrinsic.
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Intrinsic...

What value does a bank note gives you ? A person's hourly salary/earning ? A country's financial status ? The cost of making bank note and ink ?

What value does cryptocurrency gives you ? The power required to generate it/hash ? The type of crypto coin's status ? The principle of algorithm in security ?

I am tremendously excited to know your view on above.

By the way, if crypto is just backed by math; Why is information security so important these days ? Personal data protection ? Encryption algorithm ?
If you truly did some study on future technology and some digging on cryptocurrency then perhaps you might as well give me some of your opinion on this.
SUSAlan K.
post Nov 6 2019, 12:12 AM

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QUOTE(exdtan @ Nov 5 2019, 11:01 PM)
Intrinsic...

What value does a bank note gives you ? A person's hourly salary/earning ? A country's financial status ? The cost of making bank note and ink ?

What value does cryptocurrency gives you ? The power required to generate it/hash ? The type of crypto coin's status ? The principle of algorithm in security ?

I am tremendously excited to know your view on above.

By the way, if crypto is just backed by math; Why is information security so important these days ? Personal data protection ? Encryption algorithm ?
If you truly did some study on future technology and some digging on cryptocurrency then perhaps you might as well give me some of your opinion on this.
*
You don't understand because you refuse to understand, & you are throwing everything into the pot making it a jumbled mess & equating it all to be the same thing, & in the process, get yourself even more confused rclxub.gif

What value does a bank note give to me??!! You really even need to ask that question? doh.gif

Don't let the crypto prognosticators brainwash you, & tell you that your bank note is worth nothing! Read up on what truly backs up a nation's currency.

Crypto, on the other hand is backed up my 'rainbows & unicorns'. It does not inspire the confidence of the masses.

& please don't patronize me with
QUOTE
hy is information security so important these days ? Personal data protection ? Encryption algorithm ?


I deal with cyber-security products & also online authentication devices & solutions. Yeah, fintech nod.gif


QUOTE
If you truly did some study on future technology and some digging on cryptocurrency then perhaps you might as well give me some of your opinion on this.


Indeed, i've already done more than my fair share of research, & it's more than enough for me to come to the conclusion that cryptos are the biggest scam of the century.

And i'll say it again, blockchain technology could very well be the future, BUT cryptos only tumpang the technology. Do you get it?

Anyway, you can believe what you choose to believe, i've already said enough over at this thread :

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4584461/+40


Cheers

doraemonkiller
post Nov 6 2019, 01:41 AM

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QUOTE(Alan K. @ Nov 6 2019, 12:12 AM)
You don't understand because you refuse to understand, & you are throwing everything into the pot making it a jumbled mess & equating it all to be the same thing, & in the process, get yourself even more confused  rclxub.gif

What value does a bank note give to me??!! You really even need to ask that question?  doh.gif

Don't let the crypto prognosticators brainwash you, & tell you that your bank note is worth nothing! Read up on what truly backs up a nation's currency.

Crypto, on the other hand is backed up my 'rainbows & unicorns'.  It does not inspire the confidence of the masses.

& please don't patronize me with

I deal with cyber-security products & also online authentication devices & solutions. Yeah, fintech  nod.gif
Indeed, i've already done more than my fair share of research, & it's more than enough for me to come to the conclusion that cryptos are the biggest scam of the century.

And i'll say it again, blockchain technology could very well be the future, BUT cryptos only tumpang the technology. Do you get it?

Anyway, you can believe what you choose to believe, i've already said enough over at this thread :

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4584461/+40


Cheers
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I always thought crypto is a scam until I start learning and trading it. Your thinking is same like the old people who does not trust the atm card, credit card or online banking system. The value of asset either tangible or intangible is determine by the market. You can also say gold and diamond does not have value too. It has value only when people offer price for it. Same like crypto the value is base on market demand and supply, not base on your perception on cryptocurrency.
SUSAlan K.
post Nov 6 2019, 01:42 AM

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QUOTE(doraemonkiller @ Nov 6 2019, 01:41 AM)
I always thought crypto is a scam until I start learning and trading it. Your thinking is same like the old people who does not trust the atm card, credit card or online banking system. The value of asset either tangible or intangible is determine by the market. You can also say gold and diamond does not have value too. It has value only when people offer price for it. Same like crypto the value is base on market demand and supply, not base on your perception on cryptocurrency.
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errr.....ok
exdtan
post Nov 7 2019, 10:21 PM

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QUOTE(doraemonkiller @ Nov 6 2019, 01:41 AM)
I always thought crypto is a scam until I start learning and trading it. Your thinking is same like the old people who does not trust the atm card, credit card or online banking system. The value of asset either tangible or intangible is determine by the market. You can also say gold and diamond does not have value too. It has value only when people offer price for it. Same like crypto the value is base on market demand and supply, not base on your perception on cryptocurrency.
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I rest my case haha. But again, we must be open-minded to everyone's opinion. He did make a point if we go back a century when cryptocurrency just started.
exdtan
post Nov 7 2019, 10:27 PM

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QUOTE(Alan K. @ Nov 6 2019, 01:42 AM)
errr.....ok
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There is always two side to a coin, to a story. You either view it as potential dot-com bubble or the next bank note. But to say scam, that sir is just not the wise word to describe it.
SUSAlan K.
post Nov 7 2019, 10:41 PM

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QUOTE(exdtan @ Nov 7 2019, 10:27 PM)
There is always two side to a coin, to a story. You either view it as potential dot-com bubble or the next bank note. But to say scam, that sir is just not the wise word to describe it.
*
A bubble is not necessarily a scam, just something hyped and overvalued because of irrational exuberance, and a relatively strong narrative behind it (the crypto narrative seems to fit very well with the current climate - decline of trust in all kinds of institutions; economic low growth, wage stagnation and increasing internal inequality in all the developed world; unsustainable levels of debt for either nations or households; long-term negative effects of the 2008 crash and subsequent political mistakes; widespread overvaluation of anything tech; etc).

I GET IT. The idealism behind the crypto concept is commendable, but is it realistically achievable? That is the million dollar Q.

Was the dot-com bubble a 'scam'? No.
Were there scammers riding the wave and trying to make a buck? Yes.

To answer your question:

Nobody can say cryptos are a definite 'scam' at the moment.

But basically everyone knows it’s a bubble. I’d say most holders have already realized that. They just hope to make money in it. But, in bubbles, late joiners typically don’t.

When will the hype stop? In terms of the aforementioned underlying climate changing, I don’t see the wave turning anytime soon, so the narrative is unlikely to lose force, but fads lose their excitement factor after a while nonetheless.

If the narrative behind them maintains momentum, something new can easily come along and attention/excitement can easily change ship - that’s in the intrinsic nature of fads and, in this case, I think we’re already seeing the 2017 excitement fading out, but there’s no equivalent substitute ready to catalyze it yet.

'Scam' may, or may not be a poor choice of word, depending on one's conviction.

So let's agree to disagree.

Peace out icon_rolleyes.gif
tofuwizard
post Nov 8 2019, 06:53 AM

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QUOTE(Alan K. @ Nov 4 2019, 01:39 AM)
Cryptocurrency is NOT, & will NEVER be the future of finance!

It is too volatile as a store of value, & has neither an intrinsic value, nor is capable of being valued according to fundamental analysis.

It is only a speculative tool for fast profits.

That is all  vmad.gif  mad.gif
*
Ok Boomer. Bitcoin is going through its price discovery phrase currently. Just like how gold was when it first started, it is going through speculation until it has enough liquidity to reach the SoV phrase. If you actually use your brain to learn monetary history, you would know that a free-market money doesn't get to be a SoV immediately but through iterations over decades for being the most liquid and salability over time.

There is no such thing as intrinsic value either. That's a myth. All objects are valued subjectively over time by each individual whether fully, partially, or none and Bitcoin is valued for its internal properties of being uninflatable,censorship-resistant and unseizable (if you secure it properly).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective_theory_of_value

Please go read The Bitcoin Standard by Saifedean Ammous as a start before you embarrass yourself like you are right now.

This post has been edited by tofuwizard: Nov 8 2019, 06:56 AM
exdtan
post Nov 8 2019, 07:04 AM

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QUOTE(Alan K. @ Nov 7 2019, 10:41 PM)
A bubble is not necessarily a scam, just something hyped and overvalued because of irrational exuberance, and a relatively strong narrative behind it (the crypto narrative seems to fit very well with the current climate - decline of trust in all kinds of institutions; economic low growth, wage stagnation and increasing internal inequality in all the developed world; unsustainable levels of debt for either nations or households; long-term negative effects of the 2008 crash and subsequent political mistakes; widespread overvaluation of anything tech; etc).

I GET IT. The idealism behind the crypto concept is commendable, but is it realistically achievable? That is the million dollar Q.

Was the dot-com bubble a 'scam'? No.
Were there scammers riding the wave and trying to make a buck? Yes.

To answer your question:

Nobody can say cryptos are a definite 'scam' at the moment.

But basically everyone knows it’s a bubble. I’d say most holders have already realized that. They just hope to make money in it. But, in bubbles, late joiners typically don’t.

When will the hype stop? In terms of the aforementioned underlying climate changing, I don’t see the wave turning anytime soon, so the narrative is unlikely to lose force, but fads lose their excitement factor after a while nonetheless.

If the narrative behind them maintains momentum, something new can easily come along and attention/excitement can easily change ship - that’s in the intrinsic nature of fads and, in this case, I think we’re already seeing the 2017 excitement fading out, but there’s no equivalent substitute ready to catalyze it yet.

'Scam' may, or may not be a poor choice of word, depending on one's conviction.

So let's agree to disagree.

Peace out  icon_rolleyes.gif
*
biggrin.gif At least our discussion has become slightly neutral regarding cryptos from all caps 'scam' to 'may or may not'. I am proud of this discussion nod.gif

exdtan
post Nov 8 2019, 07:06 AM

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QUOTE(tofuwizard @ Nov 8 2019, 06:53 AM)
Ok Boomer. Bitcoin is going through its price discovery phrase currently. Just like how gold was when it first started, it is going through speculation until it has enough liquidity to reach the SoV phrase. If you actually use your brain to learn monetary history, you would know that a free-market money doesn't get to be a SoV immediately but through iterations over decades for being the most liquid and salability over time.

There is no such thing as intrinsic value either. That's a myth. All objects are valued subjectively over time by each individual whether fully, partially, or none and Bitcoin is valued for its internal properties of being uninflatable,censorship-resistant and unseizable (if you secure it properly).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective_theory_of_value

Please go read The Bitcoin Standard by Saifedean Ammous as a start before you embarrass yourself like you are right now.
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I am glad that you are more open to new technology and new ways to value an item, be it physical or virtual thumbup.gif
tofuwizard
post Nov 8 2019, 08:02 AM

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QUOTE(exdtan @ Nov 8 2019, 07:06 AM)
I am glad that you are more open to new technology and new ways to value an item, be it physical or virtual  thumbup.gif
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You quote the wrong guy bro. I'm already a hodler of last resort. I already use btc as a unit of account for longer term investments lol

This post has been edited by tofuwizard: Nov 8 2019, 08:03 AM
SUSAlan K.
post Nov 8 2019, 05:31 PM

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QUOTE(tofuwizard @ Nov 8 2019, 06:53 AM)
Ok Boomer. Bitcoin is going through its price discovery phrase currently. Just like how gold was when it first started, it is going through speculation until it has enough liquidity to reach the SoV phrase. If you actually use your brain to learn monetary history, you would know that a free-market money doesn't get to be a SoV immediately but through iterations over decades for being the most liquid and salability over time.

There is no such thing as intrinsic value either. That's a myth. All objects are valued subjectively over time by each individual whether fully, partially, or none and Bitcoin is valued for its internal properties of being uninflatable,censorship-resistant and unseizable (if you secure it properly).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective_theory_of_value

Please go read The Bitcoin Standard by Saifedean Ammous as a start before you embarrass yourself like you are right now.
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Boomer? ASSumptions much? Ahhh, again, regurgitating. Same like your other post to me in the other thread. Stop foaming at the mouth with those who disagree with you boy.
SUSAlan K.
post Nov 8 2019, 05:33 PM

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QUOTE(exdtan @ Nov 8 2019, 07:04 AM)
biggrin.gif At least our discussion has become slightly neutral regarding cryptos from all caps 'scam' to 'may or may not'. I am proud of this discussion  nod.gif
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lmao if u consider tat a victory for u, kudos laugh.gif
exdtan
post Nov 10 2019, 04:52 PM

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QUOTE(Alan K. @ Nov 8 2019, 05:33 PM)
lmao  if u consider tat a victory for u, kudos  laugh.gif
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victory or defeat, it does not matter if no value nor point is brought to the table. Discussion and debate brings growth and knowledge.
exdtan
post Nov 10 2019, 04:53 PM

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QUOTE(tofuwizard @ Nov 8 2019, 08:02 AM)
You quote the wrong guy bro. I'm already a hodler of last resort. I already use btc as a unit of account for longer term investments lol
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bro... obviously it was a sarcastic reply to the right guy through the wrong guy brows.gif

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