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 Car Sales Review Honda, Toyota, Mercedes, BMW, etc, Who is winning who is losing

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IpohLad
post May 26 2018, 10:28 AM

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QUOTE(coldfission @ May 26 2018, 01:34 AM)
Got no idea which brand is that. By the way, 3 cylinder is not my type too. Just accompany my colleague to view 318i n v40 as their price are very close to each other despite of different segment. My colleague crossed v40 from the list due to the interior space. The engine of v40 t4 is quite decent for her already.

I'm also waiting for new 3 series and see how it goes.
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I wouldn't touch both of these models. They will get new model out anytime soon and your old model will depreciated instantly. Sorry normally I don't care about resale value but when it come to new model vs old model purchase unless you intend to keep it till it dead.
coldfission
post May 26 2018, 10:50 AM

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QUOTE(IpohLad @ May 26 2018, 10:28 AM)
I wouldn't touch both of these models. They will get new model out anytime soon and your old model will depreciated instantly. Sorry normally I don't care about resale value but when it come to new model vs old model purchase unless you intend to keep it till it dead.
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If I buy it personally I won't touch it for sure. It's my colleague who likes both model a lot
TSjayraptor
post May 26 2018, 10:47 PM

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QUOTE(coldfission @ May 26 2018, 08:34 AM)
Got no idea which brand is that. By the way, 3 cylinder is not my type too. Just accompany my colleague to view 318i n v40 as their price are very close to each other despite of different segment. My colleague crossed v40 from the list due to the interior space. The engine of v40 t4 is quite decent for her already.

I'm also waiting for new 3 series and see how it goes.
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1 of my member was so eager that you would point out either BMW or Volvo principal marketing head, it was let down for him.

When did you follow your friend to showroom? Heard v40 now cut price to Japanese D segment range? Before this, if not mistaken the V40 T5 was about BMW 118i price range at rm180k? V40 T4 should be more than rm10k cheaper.

Both the V40 and 118i are just too small especially the rear row. Unlike normal car, although they are as big as Japanese C segment, luxury cars are less roomy inside due to thick pillars, curvy and angular exterior shapes and design took away the space. I won't even look at these small cars when come to luxury range. For ladies maybe, doesn't worth spending so much, better fork out more and get 3 series or C class size at least.

Auto Bavaria focus more on cheap price so they took the 318i and phased out the 320i so that the 118i won't be the only one with 3 cylinders. If they retained the 320i, it could share parts with way more models and variants as the 2.0T engine is most common. Another failed marketing head that failed to take on Mercedes relying on cheapest entry level to fight. The rear row of current F30 3-series too cramp and lacked legroom, wait for g20 better. That's the main reason why I didn't go for the 3 series back then. The 3 cylinders and rear row turning me off.

Audi at the other hand, marketing failed and seems hopeless under their management. Mercedes interior too old fashion, reminds me of cars from 60's and quality looks cheap. Lexus cbu totally overpriced. Volvo too much focus on electronic and environment. Infiniti already dead, forget it.
Duckies
post May 26 2018, 10:55 PM

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QUOTE(jayraptor @ May 26 2018, 10:47 PM)
1 of my member was so eager that you would point out either BMW or Volvo principal marketing head, it was let down for him.

When did you follow your friend to showroom? Heard v40 now cut price to Japanese D segment range? Before this, if not mistaken the V40 T5 was about BMW 118i price range at rm180k? V40 T4 should be more than rm10k cheaper.

Both the V40 and 118i are just too small especially the rear row. Unlike normal car, although they are as big as Japanese C segment, luxury cars are less roomy inside due to thick pillars, curvy and angular exterior shapes and design took away the space. I won't even look at these small cars when come to luxury range. For ladies maybe, doesn't worth spending so much, better fork out more and get 3 series or C class size at least.

Auto Bavaria focus more on cheap price so they took the 318i and phased out the 320i so that the 118i won't be the only one with 3 cylinders. If they retained the 320i, it could share parts with way more models and variants as the 2.0T engine is most common. Another failed marketing head that failed to take on Mercedes relying on cheapest entry level to fight. The rear row of current F30 3-series too cramp and lacked legroom, wait for g20 better. That's the main reason why I didn't go for the 3 series back then. The 3 cylinders and rear row turning me off.

Audi at the other hand, marketing failed and seems hopeless under their management. Mercedes interior too old fashion, reminds me of cars from 60's and quality looks cheap. Lexus cbu totally overpriced. Volvo too much focus on electronic and environment. Infiniti already dead, forget it.
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Interesting discussion you guys got here!

How about Jaguar?
TSjayraptor
post May 26 2018, 11:27 PM

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QUOTE(Duckies @ May 26 2018, 10:55 PM)
Interesting discussion you guys got here!

How about Jaguar?
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Not confident on its reliability, spare parts, overpriced CBU and failed management. In a car review on YouTube, brand new sent for test drive already leaking coolant, such a disgrace.

If I buy Mercedes or BMW, spare parts plenty, can choose original OEM or replica. Mercedes safer bet while BMW, saw numbers of them being towed. Will check reliability of the latest generation before decide.
coldfission
post May 27 2018, 09:15 AM

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QUOTE(jayraptor @ May 26 2018, 10:47 PM)
1 of my member was so eager that you would point out either BMW or Volvo principal marketing head, it was let down for him.

When did you follow your friend to showroom? Heard v40 now cut price to Japanese D segment range? Before this, if not mistaken the V40 T5 was about BMW 118i price range at rm180k? V40 T4 should be more than rm10k cheaper.

Both the V40 and 118i are just too small especially the rear row. Unlike normal car, although they are as big as Japanese C segment, luxury cars are less roomy inside due to thick pillars, curvy and angular exterior shapes and design took away the space. I won't even look at these small cars when come to luxury range. For ladies maybe, doesn't worth spending so much, better fork out more and get 3 series or C class size at least.

Auto Bavaria focus more on cheap price so they took the 318i and phased out the 320i so that the 118i won't be the only one with 3 cylinders. If they retained the 320i, it could share parts with way more models and variants as the 2.0T engine is most common. Another failed marketing head that failed to take on Mercedes relying on cheapest entry level to fight. The rear row of current F30 3-series too cramp and lacked legroom, wait for g20 better. That's the main reason why I didn't go for the 3 series back then. The 3 cylinders and rear row turning me off.

Audi at the other hand, marketing failed and seems hopeless under their management. Mercedes interior too old fashion, reminds me of cars from 60's and quality looks cheap. Lexus cbu totally overpriced. Volvo too much focus on electronic and environment. Infiniti already dead, forget it.
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First of all, I don't really care who's the head of marketing. This is their hiring decision and there must be some qualities within them in order to take up this role. Lower rank people may question their capabilities as they may not have full picture of the work they are doing. I won't go further to discuss into this topic.

Back to your question, I went to Volvo showroom on last Fri. Yea, their V40 T4 is about 154k before insurance. This is very close to the Japanese D segment. I kind of agree with you that I won't look into luxury hatchback. It's too small for my liking. I guess a Myvi is much better in terms of space. FYI, my colleague slash off V40 from her list because she can't justify a small car with 150k price tag. She said her current 14yo altis is far more better. Lol.

Then I told her to consider 318i if she want slightly better space and a proper boot. Understand that BMW may want to save cost of the 3 cylinder parts and thus cutting the offer of 3 series to only 2 variant. This strategy does work to certain extend. However, for people like me who is already eyeing on the entry level luxury car, it simply pushes me away. I want a decently power 2.0L engine than a small 1.5L 3 cylinder to power a 1500kg car. Not to forget people are still not open to the hybrid option for now. I trust Japanese hybrid (I'm referring to Toyota one since they are pioneer in this field) but I am still skeptical on how well a continental hybrid will be, how long can it last, will it serve the purpose or just purely jump into the Ev bandwagon. I'm hoping BMW gonna bring back the 2.0L engine in upcoming G20. I have lots of expectations on G20 and if it fulfill my expectations then I may consider to get 1.

C class on the other hand looks more classy and luxury to me. Interior I would say not bad, at least better looking than the current 3 series. That's personal preference. The new A class interior is definitely top notch and I like it very much. Merc never bothered to offer good discount and free services is always case by case basis. This shy me away too. I don't wish to folk out another 20 to 30k in 5 years to do the normal servicing. BMW handles this part quite well, Tbh. Audi like you said it's a failure in term of marketing. Their car is not bad but the after sales service simply sucks. My boss has to sell his Q5 due to engine oil and O ring issue. Since then, I never even considered this brand as my future option.

Lexus is a solid built car. No doubt on Japanese reliability. However the CBU price tag is something stopping people to get it, unless you are rich or uncle enough to get a luxury car with superb reliability. Infiniti not worth mentioned liao. No eye to see.

First time write so long. For the rest, sorry, you can skip this post. TLDR.
TSjayraptor
post May 27 2018, 09:31 PM

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QUOTE(coldfission @ May 27 2018, 09:15 AM)
First of all, I don't really care who's the head of marketing. This is their hiring decision and there must be some qualities within them in order to take up this role. Lower rank people may question their capabilities as they may not have full picture of the work they are doing. I won't go further to discuss into this topic.

Back to your question, I went to Volvo showroom on last Fri. Yea, their V40 T4 is about 154k before insurance. This is very close to the Japanese D segment. I kind of agree with you that I won't look into luxury hatchback. It's too small for my liking. I guess a Myvi is much better in terms of space. FYI, my colleague slash off V40 from her list because she can't justify a small car with 150k price tag. She said her current 14yo altis is far more better. Lol.

Then I told her to consider 318i if she want slightly better space and a proper boot. Understand that BMW may want to save cost of the 3 cylinder parts and thus cutting the offer of 3 series to only 2 variant. This strategy does work to certain extend. However, for people like me who is already eyeing on the entry level luxury car, it simply pushes me away. I want a decently power 2.0L engine than a small 1.5L 3 cylinder to power a 1500kg car. Not to forget people are still not open to the hybrid option for now. I trust Japanese hybrid (I'm referring to Toyota one since they are pioneer in this field) but I am still skeptical on how well a continental hybrid will be, how long can it last, will it serve the purpose or just purely jump into the Ev bandwagon. I'm hoping BMW gonna bring back the 2.0L engine in upcoming G20. I have lots of expectations on G20 and if it fulfill my expectations then I may consider to get 1.

C class on the other hand looks more classy and luxury to me. Interior I would say not bad, at least better looking than the current 3 series. That's personal preference. The new A class interior is definitely top notch and I like it very much. Merc never bothered to offer good discount and free services is always case by case basis. This shy me away too. I don't wish to folk out another 20 to 30k in 5 years to do the normal servicing. BMW handles this part quite well, Tbh. Audi like you said it's a failure in term of marketing. Their car is not bad but the after sales service simply sucks. My boss has to sell his Q5 due to engine oil and O ring issue. Since then, I never even considered this brand as my future option.

Lexus is a solid built car. No doubt on Japanese reliability. However the CBU price tag is something stopping people to get it, unless you are rich or uncle enough to get a luxury car with superb reliability. Infiniti not worth mentioned liao. No eye to see.

First time write so long. For the rest, sorry, you can skip this post. TLDR.
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I agree with you, having similar thoughts on the luxury brands.

OK lady looking for luxury brand, definitely she would check out the v40. Wonder why the salesman didn't offer her S60 when she finds it small?

Mercedes is doing very well with customers coming to them therefore don't give free service. BMW bogged down by past reliability issues and their marketing failed to come up with solution so they give free service while for car sales focus on cheapest selling entry level models.

I actually like new upcoming Audi cars but not their SUV, design not inspiring at all. I avoid until there's major overhaul of their management. Lexus NX and RX do look nice, maybe later they'll go ckd.

To play safe, I can wait and take sweet time for next year.
coldfission
post May 27 2018, 10:09 PM

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QUOTE(jayraptor @ May 27 2018, 09:31 PM)
I agree with you, having similar thoughts on the luxury brands.

OK lady looking for luxury brand, definitely she would check out the v40. Wonder why the salesman didn't offer her S60 when she finds it small?

Mercedes is doing very well with customers coming to them therefore don't give free service. BMW bogged down by past reliability issues and their marketing failed to come up with solution so they give free service while for car sales focus on cheapest selling entry level models.

I actually like new upcoming Audi cars but not their SUV, design not inspiring at all. I avoid until there's major overhaul of their management. Lexus NX and RX do look nice, maybe later they'll go ckd.

To play safe, I can wait and take sweet time for next year.
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To answer you, s60 is way off from her budget. She want something ard sub 180k. Thus, these 2 cars come into consideration. New A6 looks good. However, still won't change my mind for audi now. Lexus RX is one of my favorite car. I don't think they will go ckd approach. If yes then will be good for all of us. UX on the other hand should be good as entry level of lexus. If they price it ard 210k can can fight between xc40, gla, x1 and q3.
TSjayraptor
post May 27 2018, 10:38 PM

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QUOTE(coldfission @ May 27 2018, 10:09 PM)
To answer you, s60 is way off from her budget. She want something ard sub 180k. Thus, these 2 cars come into consideration. New A6 looks good. However, still won't change my mind for audi now. Lexus RX is one of my favorite car. I don't think they will go ckd approach. If yes then will be good for all of us. UX on the other hand should be good as entry level of lexus. If they price it ard 210k can can fight between xc40, gla, x1 and q3.
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Got it, her budget rm180k. Volvo s60 T6 after removing GST still rm200k.

New PH wanted to make Malaysia the automotive hub, Lexus might consider setting plants here instead of Thailand, Vietnam or Indonesia that don't have many buyers. Those countries mostly buy the cheapest cars.

If Lexis bring in UX, it will be priced too close to Toyota Harrier with eagle emblem.
coldfission
post May 28 2018, 06:50 AM

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QUOTE(jayraptor @ May 27 2018, 10:38 PM)
Got it, her budget rm180k. Volvo s60 T6 after removing GST still rm200k.

New PH wanted to make Malaysia the automotive hub, Lexus might consider setting plants here instead of Thailand, Vietnam or Indonesia that don't have many buyers. Those countries mostly buy the cheapest cars.

If Lexis bring in UX, it will be priced too close to Toyota Harrier with eagle emblem.
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If UX price ard 220k to 250k it will still be competitive enough. I'm eager to see how lexus will stratefize it. Any idea? So, what is your insight on the conti luxury brand in New Malaysia?
TSjayraptor
post May 28 2018, 11:09 PM

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QUOTE(coldfission @ May 28 2018, 06:50 AM)
If UX price ard 220k to 250k it will still be competitive enough. I'm eager to see how lexus will stratefize it. Any idea? So, what is your insight on the conti luxury brand in New Malaysia?
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Lexus should be able to get that pricing. Whether they'll bring in is another issue. Lexus marketing team is with Toyota under UMW. They won't bring in if it clashes with Harrier worry of cannibalising each other. Like new RAV4, they might not bring in because there's CHR and Fortuner.

Local mentality, when BMW Mercedes became cheap, more would go for them because locals put status and class on top. Americans at the other hand put reliability on top of everything which is why BMW Mercedes don't sell that well there. My friend who conducted research in HK, most hongkong folks that could afford $1 million car park space would buy Mercedes BMW.

This year end motorshow, expect more new brands and models joining. The Korean brands, if they don't replace the unqualified staffs in principal and distributor office, expect to get wiped out by China brands when they set Malaysia their ASEAN hub. Not just Korean brands, other alternative brands that aren't doing well against mainstream brands also should restructure. Things will get top competitive like survival of fittest. SAIC has completely seized all remaining slices of Koreans, Chevy and Ford car and SUV segment in Thailand. The same thing could happen here soon.
coldfission
post May 29 2018, 11:44 AM

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QUOTE(jayraptor @ May 28 2018, 11:09 PM)
Lexus should be able to get that pricing. Whether they'll bring in is another issue. Lexus marketing team is with Toyota under UMW. They won't bring in if it clashes with Harrier worry of cannibalising each other. Like new RAV4, they might not bring in because there's CHR and Fortuner.

Local mentality, when BMW Mercedes became cheap, more would go for them because locals put status and class on top. Americans at the other hand put reliability on top of everything which is why BMW Mercedes don't sell that well there. My friend who conducted research in HK, most hongkong folks that could afford $1 million car park space would buy Mercedes BMW.

This year end motorshow, expect more new brands and models joining. The Korean brands, if they don't replace the unqualified staffs in principal and distributor office, expect to get wiped out by China brands when they set Malaysia their ASEAN hub. Not just Korean brands, other alternative brands that aren't doing well against mainstream brands also should restructure. Things will get top competitive like survival of fittest. SAIC has completely seized all remaining slices of Koreans, Chevy and Ford car and SUV segment in Thailand. The same thing could happen here soon.
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I hope lexus Malaysia bring in the new UX and ES. It's a nice car to own. If Beemer and Merc are cheaper then i confirm go buy one lol
TSjayraptor
post May 29 2018, 09:58 PM

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QUOTE(coldfission @ May 29 2018, 11:44 AM)
I hope lexus Malaysia bring in the new UX and ES. It's a nice car to own. If Beemer and Merc are cheaper then i confirm go buy one lol
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Hopefully they'll do. More choices for us. But based on the U May Win marketing head mindset, they might won't. The ES sedan definitely will, it's 1 of the more common Lexus which is competing with 3 series and C class.

For Mercedes and BMW, hope they'll focus on improving reliability so that there's no ridiculous unnecessary headache of owning 1. Then sure many will buy when price cheaper.

Maybe I should start looking for contract job now since economic on the rise and prepare to shop for nice luxury car next year. Hope BMW hire proper qualified people this year so that I can buy without worry, else will have no choice but go for Mercedes.

Back then BMW Mercedes engines too big which are bad for resales value. Newer BMW and Mercedes are 2.0L turbo which is good for road tax, fc and lighter weight. Resale value won't drop that fast.

This post has been edited by jayraptor: May 29 2018, 10:00 PM
coldfission
post May 29 2018, 10:01 PM

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QUOTE(jayraptor @ May 29 2018, 09:58 PM)
Hopefully they'll do. More choices for us. But based on the U May Win marketing head mindset, they might won't. The ES sedan definitely will, it's 1 of the more common Lexus which is competing with 3 series and C class.

For Mercedes and BMW, hope they'll focus on improving reliability so that there's no ridiculous unnecessary headache of owning 1. Then sure many will buy when price cheaper.

Maybe I should start looking for contract job now since economic on the rise and prepare to shop for nice luxury car next year. Hope BMW hire proper qualified people this year so that I can buy without worry, else will have no choice but go for Mercedes.

Back then BMW Mercedes engines too big which are bad for resales value. Newer BMW and Mercedes are 2.0L turbo which is good for road tax, fc and lighter weight. Resale value won't drop that fast.
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What do you think about the new A class
TSjayraptor
post May 29 2018, 10:05 PM

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QUOTE(coldfission @ May 29 2018, 10:01 PM)
What do you think about the new A class
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It's a small luxury car, ladies preference mostly. I have a friend who bought for his wife A Class 2016 while he himself driving C-Class. The new 1 looks fiercer on the smaller headlights. Is your lady friend considering it?
coldfission
post May 29 2018, 10:16 PM

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QUOTE(jayraptor @ May 29 2018, 10:05 PM)
It's a small luxury car, ladies preference mostly. I have a friend who bought for his wife A Class 2016 while he himself driving C-Class. The new 1 looks fiercer on the smaller headlights. Is your lady friend considering it?
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Ya also considering this car as she still not making up her mind yet.
TSjayraptor
post May 29 2018, 10:37 PM

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QUOTE(coldfission @ May 29 2018, 10:16 PM)
Ya also considering this car as she still not making up her mind yet.
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It is OK if she's fine with conti brand and the interior size like B segment does not matter to her. Luxury brand , if A class on the outside as big as Japanese C segment, inside is equivalent to Japanese B segment.

BMW giving free maintenance 5 years but certain parts and service still applicable to charges and not cheap. Think they don't give entirely free. Another not so friendly friend of mine doing sales bought a BMW preowned to make customers think he's successful and always see him shaking heads whenever sent to service payment close to RM300 onwards. Not sure whether the credit card centre chasing him for late payment giving warning is related to owning luxury car or his high class wannabe lifestyle.
coldfission
post May 30 2018, 06:29 AM

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QUOTE(jayraptor @ May 29 2018, 10:37 PM)
It is OK if she's fine with conti brand and the interior size like B segment does not matter to her. Luxury brand , if A class on the outside as big as Japanese C segment, inside is equivalent to Japanese B segment.

BMW giving free maintenance 5 years but certain parts and service still applicable to charges and not cheap. Think they don't give entirely free. Another not so friendly friend of mine doing sales bought a BMW preowned to make customers think he's successful and always see him shaking heads whenever sent to service payment close to RM300 onwards. Not sure whether the credit card centre chasing him for late payment giving warning is related to owning luxury car or his high class wannabe lifestyle.
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Will ask her to check again on the maintenance cost. She is high income earner. Don't think having any issue to pay maintenance. Your fren is doing sales? A lot of salesman like to show off by using luxury car. I noticed mostly are insurance and property agent. Lol no offense to this group of ppl. Just purely my observations.
wkc5657
post May 30 2018, 10:48 AM

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QUOTE(jayraptor @ May 29 2018, 10:37 PM)
Another not so friendly friend of mine doing sales bought a BMW preowned to make customers think he's successful and always see him shaking heads whenever sent to service payment close to RM300 onwards. Not sure whether the credit card centre chasing him for late payment giving warning is related to owning luxury car or his high class wannabe lifestyle.
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Normal japanese car with a little age post warranty already cost around RM300 for regular maintenance. With 50% more engine oil required, 300+ consider normal, you friend budget ridiculously restricted, shouldn't even drive car biggrin.gif

Should advice that fellor get mazda, everything tabao for 1st 3 years...

This post has been edited by wkc5657: May 30 2018, 10:49 AM
TSjayraptor
post May 30 2018, 10:33 PM

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QUOTE(coldfission @ May 30 2018, 06:29 AM)
Will ask her to check again on the maintenance cost. She is high income earner. Don't think having any issue to pay maintenance. Your fren is doing sales? A lot of salesman like to show off by using luxury car. I noticed mostly are insurance and property agent. Lol no offense to this group of ppl. Just purely my observations.
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Yes, she should check the service interval price first and consider before buying. Luxury brand, without free maintenance would range in the middle rm6xx to higher hundreds while major service over thousand. That's why many would send to outside workshop operated by ex-luxury brand engineers with qualified engineering certs after warranty ended. If reliable, I am fine with the interval.

Yes, that not so close friend of mine doing sales. Guess that's the reason why he went for BMW. By right they could just get Camry or Mazda 6 since sales need to drive a lot. If I am the potential customer, I would look at his service and goods quality rather than his car.

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