Cuase many of you all saying that shaman is useless after the patch.
Then isit aliance shaman is useless?so as horde?

Expansion adding shaman for alliance and paladin for horde

Shaman useless
Paladin give benefit to horde haha~

man, no class in WoW or whatsoever game is useless...

Shamans are just crying because this patch is the first ever patch that Blizz seriously nerfs them. And it not even nerfing the entire class, just the enhancement tree.

Like williamlee said, no class in WoW is useless. Learn to play it right and adjust yourself to a suitable play style.

You seriously think this will be the first patch we're getting a serious nerf only?

Please do look back and see how many times Blizzard nerf us without letting us know in the patch notes as well as how badly our WF was nerfed compared to the earlier days.

We aren't crying. We're asking for a fix to our class as of right now we have no idea what Blizzard is trying to do to our class. They buff our ele talent only to nerf it in the next patch

warriors literally get nerfed every patch. qq on the forums also no use. get over it.

how did warriors come up in a post about shamans?

cos i felt like it. haha.

What. Are you playing WoW from several versions ago? Enhancement was changed months ago (Windfury 800 AP bonus reduced by half). The next patch is nerfing Elemental (Elemental Focus bonus from 100% to 60%).

In exchange we get fixed Trainer Animations. Whee.

Put it this way. The thing that made Shamans scary in the past: Burst Damage. It's been nerfed, because everyone else has more health and more ways to counter/survive.

It's the same thing for Warlocks. Pre-TBC Warlocks have as much hp as Warriors, but with TBC gear their hp now are about the same as mages. Not that I am saying Warlocks have much to complain about, but the stamina inflation in current gear meant burst damage and killing someone in a few seconds (something Shamans did very well previously) is no longer viable.

This post has been edited by ray123: May 15 2007, 12:02 PM

They shouldn't have nerfed the enhancement tree imo.

I'm so loving enhancement now and it's getting nerfed gg.

Shamans get nerfed every patch. It's the truth and it's not "literally". Heck we didn't even get a class review (hence the Bus Shock thingy).

Recently some 300 of us Shamans made level 1 alts and made a line of dead corpses from the Durotar starting zone all the way to the bonfire in Ogrimmar. Not as devastating as the Warriors QQ crashing servers, eh?

Imo, shamans are fine. People who QQ should just learn to play.

QFT, but imho shamans could definitely use some tweakings. especially in the enhancement part. and some improvement *a bit* in the resto part and they are good.

You guys don't get it. It's never about the damage or healing output we could do (which the nerfs nerfs are affecting). It's about not getting new skills to help us -survive-. In TBC we get... two new Elemental pets on 20 minute cooldowns and Bloodlust, on a 10 minute cooldown.

Combine the fact that we are given nerfs without being getting adjusted in other areas; thats the reason Shamans are asking for a change.

yay endless rage,rampage,devastate.

this guy wins, lol.

to ray: if you think ur class, or a particular class is screwed the most, you prolly need to broaden a bit on ur perspective. every class have their own problems.

What i would do just to get cloak of skill i mean shadows. /sigh.

Endless Rage (Arms), Rampage (Fury) and Devastate (Protection) are 41 point talents. Honestly I don't know much about Warriors (only played mine to 26 waaaaaaaay back when shields, misses and parries give no rage), but I believe new talent trees for each class were introduced before the TBC release.

Fire Elemental, Earth Elemental and Bloodlust were given at TBC. Also given were Water Shield (whee 120 mana x3) and Wrath of Air totem (finally something from us to boost caster DPS).

I am not sure of the Warrior equivalents. Intervene? Spell Reflection? Victory Rush? Commanding Shout?

you'll get it when you cut your own wrists enough

yes. Awesome aint it.

I did not deny the problems of other classes (none were brought up in this thread anyway), so you don't need to deny/underestimate the problems of the Shaman class. How is it we're not the most screwed; when we only got half a class review together with Mages pre-TBC, but Mages got more changes later on. Where's ours? Do I need to remind you of the Stoneclaw totem change?

I don't know man. There has to be a reason for the Shaman population to decrease (realm info, wowcensus, etc) after TBC despite Alliance access to the class in the expansion.

Personally I think all hybrid classes got screwed royally.

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Added on May 15, 2007, 2:42 pmAgain, I don't know exactly how "awesome" they are. All I'm saying are the Shaman equivalents really suck donkey balls. 20 minute cooldowns meant the Elementals can't even be used in the Arena.

This post has been edited by ray123: May 15 2007, 02:42 PM

now that you bring up mages, how is mages any different pre bc and post bc, tell me that, then look back to your shaman. and since ur mainly addressing the new skills given, and that you bring up mages, take a good look at the new skills given to mages, and re-compare it to shamans.

really, not too much difference in terms of which class is getting screwed over. most screwed? it could be shamans, but i wouldnt be too sure on it.

Just from my point of view, hybrids are there to provide utlities to the group, pve n pvp. I'm not sure as to which aspect of wow ur referencing to but hey shamans are still awesome in both sides. in pve come on, whether its 5man 10man 25man, bloodlust is a winner. That ability alone alwaz warrants a shaman 2-3spots in the (25man)raid. Earth elemental totem is alwaz a winner in saving a wipe in 5mans. Not to mention the best interrupts in the game with an interrupt every 5-6secs.

pvp - shamans reali do need more skill to play with, good judgements calls on totems etc, but hey when i see a good shaman in 2v2 or 3v3 man they can rock.

I have a mage too.

In 5-mans and Heroics, you will always prefer a Mage's Polymorph or Warlock's Seduce to an Elemental Shamans...nothing... You will always prefer a Rogue's Sap or a Hunter's Ice Trap to an Enhancement Shaman's... nothing. You will always prefer a Druid's Cyclone or even a Priest's Mind Control to a Restoration Shaman's... nothing.

Yes, a Shaman brings a variety of buffs to the group. But are these buffs worth the lack of Crowd Control and utility? Would you trade your Vanish, Cloak of Shadows and Feint for Mail Armor? I sincerely doubt it.

Crowd Control is the name of the game now in WoW in both PVE and PVP. Shamans don't have it, nor ways to get out of it (save a 5-minute trinket). We have preventive measures (Tremor Totem / Grounding Totem) which has limitations (ask your guild Shamans how effective Tremor Totems are in PVP). Again, I am not disputing the damage / healing output we can do. It's the survivalbility.

As for Mages: you will always prefer a Mage's ranged DPS to an Elemental Shaman. One: They can maintain high levels of DPS. Two: They can drop aggro via Invisibility. How do Shamans drop aggro? One WoW forum poster suggested that we pull aggro, die and ankh to continue...

Pre-TBC, the main complaints of the Mages were

1) No way of dropping aggro in PVE (<- solved with Invisibility).

2) No scaling regen of mana (<- still a problem, Evocation still depends on Spirit which is a worthless stat to Mages).

3) Being the "glass cannon" class, Mages feel inferior to Warlocks utility and uber DPS (<-nothing to do with Shamans). Do Mages feel inferior to Elemental Shamans?

4) Crap itemization (<- this is a problem affecting everybody. Hello spell damage on melee Enhancement Shaman tier 4/5).

I am not aware of any huge problems affecting Mages in PVP. They still can deal out huge damage upfront, still can crowd control and still have the tools to escape from combat.

Again, I'm not denying the problems of other classes. Just that Shamans have been neglected far too long. BTW it seems we got Tseric fired.

its not just the shamans, hybrids like paladins are still being screwed over, the retribution tree is totally screwed

they did a search once....out of the top 50 Arena teams 3v3 and 5v5 worldwide....there wasnt a single ret spec pally, and ret is supposed to be our pvp/dps tree

CC? Nope dun have that either

dmg output? Nope, not there either

healing, yup we uber, but not every paladin wants to heal.

That's exactly the problem with Shamans at the moment. We give buffs, but there are issues with them. Unleashed Rage, (10% of your Attack Power buff everytime the Enhancement Shaman crits) actually generates aggro to the Shaman. So does the 41 point talent, Shamanistic Rage (mana regen for the Shaman based on AP per hit by the Shaman), since the game treats getting mana = more threat.

Totem of Wrath (41 point Elemental PVE talent for increased crit & hit) is placed under Lightning Overload, an arguably PVP talent (think Windfury for lightning bolt). This is getting fixed soon by making LO procs threatless, but the Totem of Wrath has been calculated to be giving less DPS than the standard Searing Totem; unless the Elemental Shaman is in a group of 4 mages.

No one is disputing the awesomeness of Earth Shield (restoration). However, the PTR made it so that Earth Shield won't proc Ancestral Healing (25% more armor buff). It doesn't do it now, but it was supposed to do in the PTR before it got changed back =/

Bloodlust is a great spell. It's the best buff in the game and the best thing Shamans received in TBC. Unfortunately, that's it =/

It doesn't survive 2 hits in Heroics. And Earthshock is great, but it costs a buttload of mana and only interrupts for 2 seconds =/



This is true for everybody.

This post has been edited by ray123: May 15 2007, 03:16 PM

Man, since you complain so much why are you still playing your shammy?

Uh, all those posts only came up because you guys said (basically) "Shamans are fine l2p". All I did was "Shamans aren't fine, here's the problems". I only bemoan the fact that we got so little attention, simply because some idiot made a crit videos (Unbreakable, the dude running around 1-shotting people with Hand of Rag) and got us nerfed. You would probably defend your class the same way if I said "this class is overpowered/fine/no problems at the moment".

Btw, I don't play my Shaman anymore. It kinda sucks when you played your character up the old PVP rankings (I am a Warlord), get some of the best PVE gear (at the time), get to 70 and found out your class really sucks at endgame.

I love my Shaman. But it's kinda hard to play on, when you know the very future of your class in doubt because there is so little acknowledgement of our problems.

--
Velspar, 70 Troll Shaman
Nominated "True King of Shamans" of Gorgonnash

I doubt Blizz would base shaman nerfing by viewing that Unbreakable video.

I'm probably lazy to defend my class already la. I play a hunter, and I always hear hunter OP bla bla bla. One thing I realise about people is, they always cry that a specific class is OP and yet they don't wanna roll that class. Then if they do roll that class, they say that class sucks cause of this and that and they QQ about their own class.

As a hunter, we are almost unable to kill warriors (charge hamstring = gg), pally (bubble heal, BoF etc) and locks (fear, need I say more?). In fact, if we don't spec BM, we are not able to fight rogues (stunlock, poison), mage (forst nova, dead zone), shadow priest (SW:P can almost tick our health to less than half). In fact, we can't anything without kiting The 3 yard dead zone is kinda pain the ass at times haha and without the extra 6 yards (talent), I don't think we can successfully kite a warlock without it laying any dots on us. :\

This post has been edited by Peanutz: May 15 2007, 04:35 PM

I have a hunter too! And my best friend plays a Hunter.

Nah, doubt Blizz nerfed Shamans because of Unbreakable. Blizz nerfing Shamans because people QQ about Unbreakable's video though, quite possible (btw the dude got his account banned or something lol).

Have you tried BM Melee hunter though? On Gorgonnash we have a very notorious and annoying-to-fight-against Orc HWL Hunter named Farkry. He's notorious for being BM before the big red pet patch.

His video clocks in at 1hour 30+ minutes and over 3gb (high quality version):

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=35344

Though it was made before TBC, you might find it interesting, lots of clips of meleeing Rogues & Warriors ^^

Edit: You can probably try the livestream or Youtube links (they show the first 10 minutes of his movie) if you can't be bothered with the huge ass download He's still BM now, and seems doing pretty well (13th in 5vs5 arena).

This post has been edited by ray123: May 15 2007, 04:49 PM

sooo shaman is useless?

Like all other classes, Shamans have issues. Unlike other classes however, Shaman issues have yet to be addressed properly. Example:

Developer: "We will look into your mana issue in PVE." (<- actual blue post)
Elemental Shaman: "Yay!"
(later)
Developer: "Elemental Focus bonus will be nerfed from 100% free to 60% free mana cost."
Elemental Shaman: "..."

If you spec BM, warlocks are freefrags for you.

---

Added on May 15, 2007, 5:49 pmYeah, Blizz is just screwing up the shaman class a little too much. I seriously think they should just stop messing with the classes, and just focus on fixing the minor things (which I can't think of atm).



This post has been edited by monkeymafia: May 15 2007, 05:49 PM

Not really, even if I activate TBW I can still be dotted, life drained etc. Only thing is they can't CC me or pet.

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Added on May 15, 2007, 5:50 pmNot to mention it doesn't get rid of dots that are already on you. Unlike cloak of shadows..

This post has been edited by Peanutz: May 15 2007, 05:50 PM

Yeah so you have to kill the warlock within that 18 seconds.

Like I said earlier in another post, the only thing I can do against a BM hunter is to curse of weakness his pet, load him up with dots while drain tanking, and pray that my hp is enough to last thru that 18 seconds of hell.

Hell? Pfft, if your drain life sucks for 300+ per tick. I don't see how much hell you can receive.

Well, a Hunter's burst damage is better than an Affliction Warlock. You will most probably die to his dots, but you can probably kill him too unless he potted or/and healthstone. Improved Drain is only 70% protection against pushback, a hunter+pet would probably interrupt it quite often.

The MAIN thing affecting ALL classes is the itemization. It pretty much sucks for everybody at the moment.

This post has been edited by ray123: May 15 2007, 06:23 PM

heals for 400 per tick lolz.

strongly agree, is a matter of how the person play the character

but i have good impression on Dranei shaman, almost never stop instance half way, whenever there is a shaman in our group, i'm thinking is it the person play Dranei Shaman wont be a newbie to WoW lol

Shaman skills are really fine but being a hybrid class thats been tweaked non stop from the early WoW stages till now, it means our talent tree are screwed up

We werent mean to dual wield in the first place but we were given the talent to do so in TBC. However, some of the old useless talents still remain in our talent tree such as Shield spec talent and our Lighting Shield which no enha shaman will ever up. Many of us suggested to make lighting shield talent to affect our water shield cause this is the only shield a shaman casts on himself in PvE

Same thing goes to our ele tree where talents are screwed such as talent to reduce getting crit then on the other hand another talent encourages you to get hit to gain Focused Casting.

Resto tree i dont have much to complain about maybe make my mana regen works better. Making Mana Tide wont be able to solve it cause it will make shamans too good in PvE.

Like those said before, Paladin and Shaman are sharing the same problem in their DPS tree. Most raids dont really want you to DPS except you could justify to them what benefits you bring to the raid.

My advice is if you're rolling a Draenei go roll a priest. They have Fear Ward right? If yes then you will be wanted in raid lol. There are quite a few encounters in TBC that needs Fear Ward such as Nightbane and maybe Maulgar. I dont play alliance so i dunno if Fear Ward helps against Maulgar. My guild down Maulgar with half the raid down because MT got feared + lag factor. Gruul has no fear though and imo much easier than High King Maulgar as he doesnt use fear. Well for Horde side thats it

SHAMAN HEALING = WIN!!!
chain heal + mana tide + ancestreal whatever u call it...
they still heal pretty darn good...

Tumpang Thread...
For hunter
1 Agi =AP?
how many AP = 1 dps?

1 Agi = 1 AP
Forgot how many RAP = 1 DPS though ><

After playing shaman for 2 years...all i can say is (I PVP MORE KEEP IN MIND)

Resto. can survive againest rogues - making rogues complaning. And can do decent healing.

Elemental keep your distance and you'll do fine, try to kill ur enemies as fast as you can. ( Seen some as engineers and made things to stun their enemies u might want to consider this to keep ur distance. )

Enchancement get good equipment and you'll do fine. Other then this play and learn.

Learn to play them....

My experince with other classes

Warriors can't heal themselves...... Only bandages can heal u while fighting if u can spare the time in a fight. No healer and we have a problem.

Rogues are cheap and easy to learn but PVE your not in demand. Learn to hide and run before u die. We can kill shamans without getting hurt sometimes (ele, enchance only)

I don't believe all classes should be balance to each other when it comes to pvp but i do believe one class should be the weakness of another.

OMG a shaman QQing , relax bro , i am a druid and we have the most right to QQ after being the least played class in the game. Now i can say our cat form rocks , but we are not as great and shamans are still good. Wait for the patch it should be ok. Take this from a druid , we got nerfed the most and we are the least played class in the game. If you done believe me play av , you would max see 5 druids , but overall i am the only one in the Eye of the storm , usually near top but honestly relax and see how things go.

Hybrids have lousy dps gear selection in SSC onwards. Hence the QQ mainly. True story.

The Shamatrix:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.h...6140344&sid=1#0

---

Added on May 19, 2007, 8:30 pmI know how terrible Druids were... my second main was a Druid (70 now too). I remember the days of 31 point Balance is Hurricane and 31 point Restoration is Innervate; both of which now became standard trainable skills. I also remember the movies by Ferahgo and RubiX who demonstrated that Druids could be so much more during those old days.

Yeah I was waiting for a patch like that for Shamans. Druids got their trees overhauled and major changes in their class review. I am not "QQing" as you said (refer to my previous saying I only brought it up coz people said Shamans are fine l2p etc), I'm just outlining the fact that Shamans never gotten a full class review. We shared one with Mages. Actually it was Mages who QQed about being the last class to review, and both ended up getting half done

Most of us Shamans have relaxed for quite some time but the recent Stoneclawlol totem change and the upcoming Elemental Focus nerf and Windfury fix without giving us anything else in return seemed to be the last straw that blew up in Tseric's face o.O

This post has been edited by ray123: May 19 2007, 08:30 PM

BUSSSHOCCKKK!!!!

A bus hits you from behind and deals 99999 dmg.
You die.

Nerf Shaman.

Lol. Drink a mana pot more? U got windfury fixed not nerfed. Warriors got flurry nerfed to 25% hm? Not allowing enrage n deathwish to stack cos tool whine about getting 2-3 shotted in pvp. We take 20% more dmg(deathwish + berserker stance) from spells more than any other class (so called plate) and with that much incoming dmg, i wanna 2-3 shot ppl with my tier 2 blacksmith weapon which cost a bomb to make and way more time consuming(12 nethers hello) than any tailor noob. I would say every class over the time has gain something appealing or buffed like cloak of SKILL n wtf PVP GLOVES??, blessed resilience n lol shadow priests enuf said (ya i know u got a slight nerf), warlocks enuf said, invisibility iceblock, lol cyclone, haha paladins, bloodlust and i dun have a clue about hunter.
I'm no pro at any other class, its just off my head from pvp n pve experience. I've played my warrior for 2 yrs and practically every patch we get a nerf bat cos its alwaz "hey i got 2 shotted by this warrior", "hey fury warrior outdps me". Come late in TBC when T2 blacksmithing weapons were available same shit all over again.

We still have the same f***in skills available to us everytime but gotta nerf us. Dun even start with spell reflect cos firstly it needs 25 freaking rage and requires a shield. Y can't we just get tactical mastery as a trainable talent like freakin innervate. Warriors QQed for a yr and it was changed from a 5POINT talent to 3POINT talent moved to protection tree lol. And yeah weapon swap eats a GCD + changing stance. LOL.

I admit some of the nerfs are warranted. But in all honesty its mainly due to the itemisation especially weapons. But hey y not just nerf out talents right? lol. so sick of this bullshit. U see a blue gear warrior drained life by a lock but hey when the T2 blacksmith weapon comes out, they still win but cry "f*** ur ms hits me for 3k".

After playing a warrior for 2yrs n just see it get nerfed n nerfed, the initial overwhelming PVP experience has already worn out. I know i should just adapt to the surroundings n get used to it right (L2P right?) but its just not more "kick".
(I'm loved PVP and i have 80+k honor kills to my name and i've stop pvp close to half a year except for the occasional arenas )

Thats y i became a pve tank noob. Sucks on farming side, but hey privileges of being a MT, guild bank sponsors and more phat loot!

P.S - not intended to flame any1 but QQ on blizz. Viewing the quoted post sparked my "WoW" side to vent its frustration. Oh and i feel much better now hahaha.

wow pvp is balanced towards group pvp, and warriors paired with priest/shaman/paladin (maybe even druid) is retarded. even after the so called mass nerfings and still more nerfings, its still retarded.

Elemental mana efficiency. Meaning PVE. Meaning the Shaman who is specced in helping out the raid by maintaining DPS and giving the uber Totem of Wrath (lol) to the group. As said, if the standard Searing Totem can be better than Totem of Wrath, that leaves DPS, since Elemental has no synergies with other classes unlike Enhancement whose auto-attacks can proc buffs for melee classes. Now they are going to nerf Elemental Focus, which was a key to long-term DPS. But hey, if your raid doesn't use Elemental Shamans, that means it's all alright in your world.



Please see what I wrote: "upcoming Elemental Focus nerf and Windfury fix".

Shamans retained their 30% because we don't have instant melee attacks, except Stormstrike which is a 31 point talent and is normalized. Actually there are rumors already saying ours will be nerfed to 25% as well

You can blame Pat PvP Video 2 for this lol, wayyyy back at the 52 talent point bug.

I agree with everything you said. Now compare them to what I've said:

-Itemization sucks ass for everybody.
-Some classes got far more better "toys" in TBC.
-I played my Shaman for 2 years, like your Warrior.
-Like your Warrior, every patch Shamans got nerfed as well, because it's always "hey I got 3-shotted by a triple Windfury crit" and "omfg this Shaman just instant cast 2 spells in a row and crit killed me (Trinket+NS+EM+Chain Lightning and Earth Shock)".
-We still use the same damn spells from release: people still whine about Grounding Totem, Earthbind and Windfury.
-We gave our feedback to a CM who went missing during our class review (Eyonix: "Sorry guys I was sick for a month btw Dev says no changes for you sorry") and we still have crappy talents like Toughness and Shield Mastery in our melee dps tree (Tseric: "Wear a shield while meleeing for damage mitigation"). We still need 5/5 in improving Mana/Health Spring totems to get Mana Tide (lol 5/5 to improve Mana Spring from 14 mp5 to 17 mp5...)
-Goddamn totems are still ranged limited (20 yards, 30 yards talented compared to 30/40 for Paladin Auras). It was a shitty mechanic in AQ40 where most boss fights were mobile, and it is still shitty now.
-Frost Shock still the only snare on DR.

Thus I reiterate: I know other classes got problems, but don't dismiss ours so lightly. I only defended Shamans because someone said L2P.