Initially posted this in the big4 thread.
I feel like this is going to be no doubt CF>Valuations but I want to get more info.

SO, I got offered Valuations and Modelling services in one of the big 4 but planning to switch to Corporate Finance in that same big 4 instead but I'm not sure whether it's a good move.

I was under the impression that Corporate Finance is under Financial Advisory when I first applied but I was told by HR it was a whole different division and I will need to be interviewed by by the head of corporate finance.

Funny thing is I did my interview with 2 partners at the same time, Partner in Financial Advisory - Valuations and Partner in Financial Advisory - Corporate Finance.

I am also under the impression that corporate finance in big4 is what it says it is, not some scam .

And under the job description, Corporate Finance guys do valuations too. So its save to say that CF is more like a front office and Valuations is the support (?)

I maxed out my linkedin search this month already so I can't do anymore people searching.

Would appreciate any advice, opinions and insights.

1) growth
2) exit opportunities
3) day-to-day
4) workload
5) size of team

Goals:
1) stay competitive for M7 (wishing for too much?)
2) Learn as much as possible
3) not sure about end goals yet, probably cop dev/fund manager/PE/VC/HF (??????) so best to keep as much doors open as possible



This post has been edited by eddydo: Apr 22 2018, 05:20 AM

wan do CF might as well join the principal adviser side, other than that u r probably wasting your time

so IB or no go for CF right?

if let's say after 2 years I would like a break into IB, would your answer still be the same?

I've heard about how big 4 valuations/corporate finance, is quite good, but usually they deal with small/middle sized company, unlike the bigger investment banks which deal with IPOs etc. It's not the best path to IB, it is looked down among some IB-ers Ifrom what ive read (but idk why), but having big 4 /multinational company is always good. plenty of people go to audit to work in corporate finance in IB later on anyway.

If you want to get into IB, usually people do this through MT programs or networks.

This post has been edited by happytea: Apr 22 2018, 06:33 PM

might as well join IB now..

after 2 years in big 4 CF doesnt give you much advantage, ur portfolio still gonna be weak

Cause CF does cover Valuations as well. so in a way, CF would be more front office than back office right? If CF covers valuation and does almsot the same thing as IB I might as well try to switch to CF?

I'm still going for ER in one of the banks but damn slow damn sien. Got a conditional offer but that offer like a useless piece of paper lol.


hard cause my cv weak. no prior experience, Maybxnk Cxmb didn't even get back to me sad. So far this is what I've got. and both these firms MT are rotation and can't choose your desk. The only rotation that sounds promising is the one from Rxb, cpital mrkets assciate prgramme, but HR put me in research already.

This post has been edited by eddydo: Apr 22 2018, 07:21 PM

So CF in Big 4 is out. What about Valuations and Financial Modelling?

Never been in the Big 4, so I'm not sure how their CF/valuations differ from a bank. From what I gather though they're more or less same? For entry level I suppose you'd be doing the same sort of work at least.

Speaking about what I do know....in CF in a bank you do a lot of 'dirty' work. There will be a lot of paper work...submissions to SC etc. Of course, numbers play a huge part in CF as well. You will assist/work together with your M&A and ECM teams.

Another area you could look at if you wanted to do financial modelling would be Asset Management and Sell side research. They don't sound as sexy as IB, but you will do a lot of financial modelling.

Edit: to answer your question about working hours....the people I know in CF work 12 hours on a good day

This post has been edited by Buyalotforgaming: Apr 24 2018, 09:07 PM

Thanks for the insights!

Maybe I did not do enough research but as far as I know in Malaysia, it's so much easier to enter IB (through management associate programmes and hope u land on your dream desk), than to go straight into asset management. Do correct me if I'm wrong.

Yeah I'm going for sell side research as well but not keeping my hopes high, heard they can't hit bumi quota

Buy side is far more sexier than IB

Hello TS,

Congratulations on the offers, I'm sure you've worked very hard to secure them. I myself am holding an offer for CMAP in RxB, which I'm planning to accept (Assessment Centre with CIMB this coming August, dinged by MxB after interview). I'm a long time lurker and I'm replying cause I've been in the same situation before haha!

Anyway, I just wanted to share my thought process on choosing Big4 vs Local IBs (think MxB, CxMB, RxB).

1. Deals' size - Top 3 local IBs are all well connected within GLCs' economy, so they're exposed to more big deals. Big4's probably won't get as many, most likely due to the nature of banking regulations in Malaysia and the networks they have.

2. Cross functional rotations- Local IBs offer very competitive rotations. For RxB's CMAP at least, you'll get exposure to ECM, DCM, M&A, CF and Derivatives. The choices are up to you and should align with your personal interests. Whilst no doubt Big4's produce high quality of junior associates/new hires, the lack of exposure to different functions will probably limit your exit ops in the future. I'm still new to the industry so I think I shouldn't limit myself into a specific function. Who knows I might hate it and eventually quit.

3. Regional Exposure - Associates will go through one of the rotations in other countries. Think SG/HK since they are the main financial hub within Asia. I feel that I could leverage this opportunity to strengthen my networks within those countries and potentially set foot in them, be it through a regional office transfer or lateral move into another firm.

4. Networking - Please don't underestimate the power of networking. I can't count how many times networking has opened doors for myself. I've gotten internships/interviews/information about industry and companies that I think were way out of my league. The people you'll be working with in IBs are very bright. Heck, I was told RxB only offered 2-3 candidates for their research programme (the one you've got) for UK graduates. I'm sure the opportunity to grow your network within IB will be valuable in the long run.

As for exit ops, I'm not too sure about them myself. I just think Local IBs offer better prospects for my career in the long run. For MBA, I did a little research as I'm planning to do it in the future. M7 is going to be tough, but not impossible. Gotta do very very well for GMAT (730-750+), good extracurricular activities (prepare early - join non-profits, charities and what not), solid undergrad and recommendations. This is all I can offer for now from a fellow fresh graduate, I hope it helps! If you'd like to connect just send me a PM!

Cheers

Wow this is comprehensive.

Congratulations to yourself too! I did get a CMAP offer as well but it was kinda verbal, told HR about it, she wasn't aware about it hence proceeding my offer in RAP.

Thank you so much for contributing your views I think many others will find it useful as well.

No problem! Just happy to contribute whenever I can. Good luck moving forward!

tbh it's even easier to enter IB through connections but yes, Maybank, CIMB and RHB do have graduate programmes that land you in IB positions. CIMB's is a bit different though, but their IB is good to aim for if you can and want it.

Sell side research is an awesome place in my opinion....but yes you're right about the quota. Think most sell sides have this issue.

Buy side is great too....but all places have their advantages and disadvantages.

Do enlighten me about the differnece between bank and big 4 cf/valuations if you're more familiar. I'm quite curious too.

I think you should focus on what you like to do rather than which department you like to join.

CF
Since the divisions you mentioned are mostly in the capital market realm, I will focus on that. Take IPO for an example, the CF department in IB will normally act as the principal adviser (PA). PA means they as project managers. They ensure all the experts do their work and deliver on time such as lawyers, reporting accountants, auditors and valuers. Project management is their primary skill. On a secondary level, it’s good if they also know accounting (look at financials and proforma) and law (drafting !!!). Another thing is that they need to read and familiar with regulations from SC and Bursa. It’s very different from your modeling and valuation work. They also do road shows.

Other departments will do the share placement, share issuance, underwriting and price determination. For governance and independence purpose, CF cannot do this. To the IB, this is the more profitable side of the IPO compared to CF advisory.

If you like coordinating, reading and drafting. CF is for you.
1) growth = Yes but not for long term. It’s getting more and more regulated by the day. The level of complains by them will melt your brain.
2) exit opportunities = Yes especially your client (if they like you). Its dual blade, only large companies can afford to hire CF specialist hence your options may be limited but your upside is huge.
3) day-to-day = How to comply with SC Guidelines. Have fun reading regulations.
4) workload = Depends whether got deals. Busy period = good bonus. Idle period = bad bonus.
5) size of team = Quite lean as it’s deal dependent.

Valuations and modeling in Big4
Market perception on Big4 is that they are jack of all trades, master of none. Compared based on expert by expert basis, they will always lose out. Take valuation for example, one of the market leader is FICO. They are the real expert valuer with the relevant credentials and background. Big4 staff background mostly consist people from accounting or audit with some from others.

Big4 competitive advantage is the ability to offer almost any services to a client under a single umbrella at competitive pricing. Most clients will prefer to hire the real experts (mostly overseas). However, when comes to pitching, Big4 can normally offer at much discounted rate which will be more reasonable to certain clients.
You may get more info from the Big4 thread. However if you really want learning, I think Big4 gives you more opportunity to try / experiment as most don’t have direct exposure to the work. The partners’ job is to get the job while you and your supervisor will figure out how to complete it. Hence, you may feel the empowerment of being in charge while CF staffs in IB are mostly top-down especially for larger deals.

If you really like financial modeling like CFA, this dept is suitable for u?

So many helpful people here!
Really appreciate the many great and well crafted inputs!

I think the main problem with me was that:
1) I don't know the job very well, or even the industry (I have 0 work experience, few friends in big4 MY, mostly interns/or from audit/IB). This forum is surprisingly very helpful.
2) Even though I have an idea of what I want, it's hard to pinpoint what I should look for. Great point, I should be focusing on what I like to do.

"To the IB, this is the more profitable side of the IPO compared to CF advisory."
Just for clarification, this is IB CF vs Big4 CF advisory right? Or you were referring to the underwriting and placement/issue part of IB?

Surprisingly, I got a call from one of the partners from sg earlier today and talked it through, he was very helpful. After a week of research, digging the forum and calling up random people, between big4 CF and big4 Valuations, I ended up sticking with Valuations. *I am still going for some IB MT programmes.

This post has been edited by eddydo: Apr 27 2018, 02:02 AM

For IPO, there are 2 main fees incurred for listing expenses. The advisory fees that you pay to the P.A (IB) and other advisers (Reporting Accountant, Lawyer and Valuer). For IB, this is the CF department revenue.

The other one is the shares related fees (Ie: brokerage, underwriting commission and placement fees). For IB, this is normally under the equities department or whatever it is called. Big4 got no license for this activities. Hence, you only see Big4 in the secondary role in this fund raising exercise.

In M&A world, this is also regulated if one of them is listed entities. Again, they will hire IBs as they also have the license in dealing with securities such as acting as agents to place shares to institutional shareholders. Big4 normally provide financial or transaction related services such as due diligence.

As you have no working experience, try your current field first. You may end up with a different preference later also due to many factors. There is no one conclusive road.