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 Why do you job-hopping?, Curious

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Frank3
post Apr 16 2018, 02:03 PM

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QUOTE(otai_g @ Apr 16 2018, 12:15 PM)
i am also job hopping.

take it easy bro.

from my past experience, if the company was good, no reason y workers still jump to another one.

except for family matters.

i have seen most shitty company will always advertise position at jobstreet every 2-3 months. i believe nobody want stay here except for one which dont have any left choice.
*
***If the company was good****

My previous company is good, i have a best team in my life (so far), i have a best boss in my life (so far), my company have good benefits, offer business travel opportunities to other countries, offer interpersonal skills training class for staff, flexible working hours, everyday waiting 5.30pm ciao...etc, i tried to stay loyalty as much as i can because i am very happy with what i currently have!

BUT, i still leave the company, you know why?? Because my pay sucks.. i love my job, company, boss, team, everyone, but i hate my salary....

If i continue to stay, i can foresee i will have problem when marriage, buy house, get and raise a baby, support my parent after they retired,...etc

So at the end i jump for money...despite i have a good job, people and company!

Now in my mind, there only left:

good company = good remuneration; (even everyday OT i also don't mind because now i am still young and money is 1st priority otherwise my life after 30s will suffer by low income)
24 hours open for opportunities from headhunter/recruiter;
if two years no significant salary adjustment/promotion, start job hunt and jump;

JJ Sword
post Apr 16 2018, 04:46 PM

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IMHO blind loyalty to companies is foolish. It should be a two-way street where employees contribute to the company as agreed and the employer reciprocate fairly. If something tips the balance, it's time to part ways
otai_g
post Apr 16 2018, 04:50 PM

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QUOTE(Frank3 @ Apr 16 2018, 02:03 PM)
***If the company was good****

My previous company is good, i have a best team in my life (so far), i have a best boss in my life (so far), my company have good benefits, offer business travel opportunities to other countries, offer interpersonal skills training class for staff, flexible working hours, everyday waiting 5.30pm ciao...etc, i tried to stay loyalty as much as i can because i am very happy with what i currently have!

BUT, i still leave the company, you know why??  Because my pay sucks.. i love my job, company, boss, team, everyone, but i hate my salary....

If i continue to stay, i can foresee i will have problem when marriage, buy house, get and raise a baby, support my parent after they retired,...etc

So at the end i jump for money...despite i have a good job, people and company!

Now in my mind, there only left:

good company = good remuneration; (even everyday OT i also don't mind because now i am still young and money is 1st priority otherwise my life after 30s will suffer by low income)
24 hours open for opportunities from headhunter/recruiter;
if two years no significant salary adjustment/promotion, start job hunt and jump;
*
2 years is to long for start hopping.

normally for me, after 6 month if other company offer better prospect than current, y not?


Frank3
post Apr 16 2018, 09:30 PM

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QUOTE(otai_g @ Apr 16 2018, 04:50 PM)
2 years is to long for start hopping.

normally for me, after 6 month if other company offer better prospect than current, y not?
*
Yes, 2 years is a bit too long...

That is why i open for any opportunities and if other company offer better money than current, of course i go! Unless current company counter offer!
TSbluemouse
post Apr 16 2018, 09:45 PM

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QUOTE(abc2005 @ Apr 14 2018, 11:46 PM)
2. If company can fire or lay off staff, why can't employees job hop?
Sure employees can job hop. We all change jobs. The question is why

QUOTE(abc2005 @ Apr 14 2018, 11:46 PM)
a) appreciation - bosses don't seem to appreciate what their staff do
This is why we do interview. Interviews are both sides. Employees interview employers too
Don't work in this kind of company.

QUOTE(abc2005 @ Apr 14 2018, 11:46 PM)
Most of them will try to low-ball the candidates based on their previous salaries - which is none of the employers' business to be exact
True. But if I ask candidate "why do you ask this much of money?" Candidates usually give vague answer.
If candidates know XYZ skill and get paid 5k, they often ask for 6-7k without bringing any added values. Candidates must be able to answer "I have XYZ and ABC skill now, therefore I'm worth more" or "I'm the best person in XYZ skill, super good. If you don't believe me, you can test me"

QUOTE(abc2005 @ Apr 14 2018, 11:46 PM)
2nd case would be yearly/half-yearly appraisal periods. I can vouch that more than 80% of those who job-hop are not happy about the compensation/increments/no-increment they received for their efforts and time spent on the work.
Same thing. Without bringing any added value to the table, it's hard to justify a significant raise

QUOTE(abc2005 @ Apr 14 2018, 11:46 PM)
With all these reasons stacked up, is TS still blind to see why people are job-hopping?
I'm a proponent of skills over money. With skills, people can always find jobs, higher pay jobs elsewhere. They can even go overseas
Job hopping simply because of money is, in my opinion, naive.
If a person has decided "I want to be really good at XYZ skill", then stay in that company while learning everything you can about XYZ skill. After 2-3 years, when that person has mastered everything there is to know about XYZ, then go and sell that skill elsewhere. This is what I call "take off" period. Double or triple your salary at this period.
juudai1990
post Apr 16 2018, 09:58 PM

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Most of the time will be money...

Let me give you an example of mine...

In 2014, I paid RM5 for fried rice and in end on 2017, it cost me RM9..that's 80% increased...

Then comparing property prices, average increase is 60-100% even for low cost or entry condo/apartment...

How do employer expecting employees to work for them with meagre 6-10% increment even the luckiest in the company...

Management play with percentage...high pay get lower % and vice versa... You can get 10% but if your salary is 3k, what can you do with that amount when inflation rate is going at the pace of more than what you get on yearly increment?

Managers or bossess will always compared and give this bullshit of those days I only get XYZ amount after how many years of cow works...but you are getting the same amount after 2-3 years of work...

Let's compare with the same salary

2008, 4000 basic, fried rice rm4, mid tier condo 300k

2018, 4000 basic, fried rice rm9-10, mid tier condo 500-700k

Same basic but people ain't enjoying the same spending power
TSbluemouse
post Apr 16 2018, 10:11 PM

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It seems like everybody is basing their opinion on money. Inflation, economy, etc..
They are all true.

Consider this scenario. A person works as a cook in mamak. He can cook nasi lemak. He earns 1k per month with this skill. How does he increase his monthly pay?

1. He can find other restaurant that offers slightly higher than 1k.
2. He can invest his time learning how to cook something else, let's say roti canai
3. He can invest his time learning how to make the best nasi lemak in the whole world

Approach 1 works. There may be bigger restaurant wanting to hire him to cook nasi lemak.
Approach 2 works. With more abilities, he will be able to do more things which means more pay.
Approach 3 works. If people start lining up just to buy his nasi lemak, he can be sure that he's doing something right. He can start finding a contact in a 5-star hotel that is willing to hire him as a cook.

To me, I'm more towards approach 2 and 3 because more skills = more pay, better skills = better pay
Frank3
post Apr 16 2018, 10:26 PM

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QUOTE(bluemouse @ Apr 16 2018, 09:45 PM)
Job hopping simply because of money is, in my opinion, naive.
*
If a person not good in XYZ skill, or don't have solid knowledge that you mentioned, then i believe job hopping is not easy for them, especially MNC or reputed company, their job has hundred to thousands people apply.

QUOTE(bluemouse @ Apr 16 2018, 09:45 PM)
If a person has decided "I want to be really good at XYZ skill", then stay in that company while learning everything you can about XYZ skill. After 2-3 years, when that person has mastered everything there is to know about XYZ, then go and sell that skill elsewhere. This is what I call "take off" period. Double or triple your salary at this period.
*
I am the one who stay in a company for almost 4 years and mastered everything of my skills, every year obtain high score appraisal, trusted by manager, and teammate. But the reality is, i am underpaid (i accepted the low pay because i don't have the skill initially), and finally i decided to jump because my life is starting to struggle with that salary, unfortunately everyone is asking my previous salary, and my next jump will be based on certain percentage increment of my previous low pay salary (10-15%). At the end , I very regret to stay there for almost 4 years.

PS: If you refuse to disclose your last drawn salary, they will proceed to next candidate, period. Even headhunter/external recruiter will ask for last drawn salary because the hiring company 99% will ask for it. That is my experience so far. puke.gif
contestchris
post Apr 16 2018, 11:34 PM

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I think job hoppers (for those who hop for an increment everytime of at least 10%) should possess skills/knowledge that is above average and somewhat in demand. Sometimes this needn't be job specific skills...just a case of being better dressed, carry yourself well, speak proper English, communicate effectively and confidently etc.

Those that do not hop (die die also stay same company) are in one of two categories:

- those who are able to integrate very well from the beginning and have been earmarked for a fast track role into middle and then senior management
- those who are satisfied and have enough to live their lives and don't like and don't need change in their life that hopping brings about. these people are either mediocre in their job (do it well but with a narrow focus) or actually bad at their job and know they can't get something better out there and the company tolerates these types
abc2005
post Apr 17 2018, 01:15 AM

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QUOTE(bluemouse @ Apr 16 2018, 09:45 PM)
Sure employees can job hop. We all change jobs. The question is why
With the forumers replies. I believe the answers are loud and clear.

QUOTE(bluemouse @ Apr 16 2018, 09:45 PM)
This is why we do interview. Interviews are both sides. Employees interview employers too
Don't work in this kind of company.
I don't know how you can relate appreciation to interview. Appreciation comes from the acknowledgment and follow-up reward (e.g. increments/bonuses/allowances/freedom) for the work and effort spent on the company's behalf. Job-hopping is one of the best ways to avoid or skip the bad companies. The only problem is that it causes unease to the existing operation the company has, which will not even arise if the employees are appreciated and properly compensated.

QUOTE(bluemouse @ Apr 16 2018, 09:45 PM)
True. But if I ask candidate "why do you ask this much of money?" Candidates usually give vague answer.
If candidates know XYZ skill and get paid 5k, they often ask for 6-7k without bringing any added values. Candidates must be able to answer "I have XYZ and ABC skill now, therefore I'm worth more" or "I'm the best person in XYZ skill, super good. If you don't believe me, you can test me"
I can't believe you still believe in these HR crap. Values are what they can bring in once you get them on the boat, not before. Added values you mentioned? Added values are the amount that you are willing to pay to get that candidate in from their current work place. Whatever the amount is, you must surely have a certain budget for hiring. if you are shopping for a product, while comparing the many product brands and price ranges, you surely have an amount that you are willing to spend on that product. You see the relative terms here? If you are willing to spend 6-7k on that person, that means you have more needs and demand on the skill-sets compared to your competitors. Plain and simple. What I can see here is the KIASU attitude shown by most of the employers, worrying about spending more than their competitors and fear of losing out.

QUOTE(bluemouse @ Apr 16 2018, 09:45 PM)
Same thing. Without bringing any added value to the table, it's hard to justify a significant raise
Just a logical example. You see. When you hire a freshie that knows nothing and train him/her with certain skill-sets for a year, the value the person possesses is now worth more than 1 year ago. If the yearly increment is minimal (e.g. 6%), you never know that the skill-sets are needed somewhere which is willing to spend more that what you are paying. Let's say a typical 20% higher than what you are paying. Do you have a reason to ask the ex-freshie to stay, without a compatible increment range? As many are saying, supply and demand plays a crucial role here. Does this warrant a significant raise? You tell me.

QUOTE(bluemouse @ Apr 16 2018, 09:45 PM)
I'm a proponent of skills over money. With skills, people can always find jobs, higher pay jobs elsewhere. They can even go overseas
Job hopping simply because of money is, in my opinion, naive.
If a person has decided "I want to be really good at XYZ skill", then stay in that company while learning everything you can about XYZ skill. After 2-3 years, when that person has mastered everything there is to know about XYZ, then go and sell that skill elsewhere. This is what I call "take off" period. Double or triple your salary at this period.
*
People nowadays don't need a long 'take-off' period. Why'd I say so? You just google it. ABC to XYZ skill-sets can now be easily learned and mastered through Internet no doubt. How would you justify a 14-year-old programmer solving the problems for big corporations? 2-3 years are long enough period to get your own business started and flying. The only question we all have, to ourselves basically, is "are we opened up to accept the challenges ahead of us, regardless of experiences that we have". A cook can be a business analyst at the same time. A homemaker can be a successful online biz owner, not to mention, a professor can also be a taxi driver. Why should employees spend and waste so much time on something they don't really care about? We can all succeed with the right skill-set, and of course, with the right mindset.

This post has been edited by abc2005: Apr 17 2018, 01:19 AM
DarkAeon
post Apr 17 2018, 07:00 AM

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QUOTE(bluemouse @ Apr 16 2018, 10:11 PM)
It seems like everybody is basing their opinion on money. Inflation, economy, etc..
They are all true.

*
it depends on which stage in life you are in. your priority shifts depending on where u r in life.

for example:
grads: most will want learning opportunities, a good company to build up experience
young professionals: you are at a stage where u r looking to buy a car/house, money is probably the biggest motivating factor
experienced: you are looking to move up the corporate ladder, opportunity to move up becomes a motivating factor

Conscience93
post Apr 17 2018, 10:16 AM

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Job hop because mainly not happy with the boss, who dunno shit about what am I doing. My boss is handling graphic design team but he dunno a single thing about the software and designing. I don't know how my company survive.

Apply leaves to go back to my state to vote also kena scolded because I priotise election over work and some other things I did "wrong" such as listening to music, taking tea time, nap time and surfing Internet (when I don't have any work atm).

In order to keep my sanity while finding other job, I ignore all my boss's "advice" and continue to do as if he didn't exist. If he cut my salary (2k only and still want me to work hard), I will leave the office immediately and never to come back.

This post has been edited by Conscience93: Apr 17 2018, 10:17 AM
tehoice
post Apr 17 2018, 11:00 AM

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QUOTE(bluemouse @ Apr 14 2018, 11:48 AM)
The youngest has 8 years exp.
There is one candidate who has about 11 years exp and has been in 9 companies. He never hits 2-year mark in any company.
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how about a candidate with approximately 9+ years of experience with 4 companies?

1. 14 months with company A
2. 3 years and 9 months in company B
3. Headhunted by company C unfortunately stayed there for only 6 months.
4. 3 years in company D.
5. Boss from company B asked to return, for about 1 year.

additional info, only experience in company A is not relevant.

experience in companies b c and d are all specialised and relevant to one's career.

how would you see such candidate? would just like to learn what's the point of view coming from a hiring manager.
BirdyKong
post Apr 17 2018, 03:46 PM

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surely most of them is becoz of money...job hop can get higher increment than stay at the same company
daimGeno
post Apr 17 2018, 03:48 PM

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my main factor.. if there is no room for growth or opportunity.
2nd is money.
GHBZDK
post Apr 19 2018, 03:31 PM

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lol 5 % yearly increment like my former company, work 5 years also salary cannot exceed 4k if fresh grad. who dowan to get out rclxub.gif

and of course theres also not liking the place for other reasons, imagine working day and night non stop no time for break only to have higher ups who are not specialised in the particular field say: "why so slow, i thought this is easy thing only" rclxms.gif

This post has been edited by GHBZDK: Apr 19 2018, 03:50 PM
anakkk
post Apr 20 2018, 03:29 PM

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staying in one job for 10 years doesn't mean the worker will have more experience and most bosses will hire someone outside with higher salary doing the higher management job instead of training their loyal staff or give them increment
SUSNew Klang
post Apr 20 2018, 04:28 PM

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QUOTE(anakkk @ Apr 20 2018, 03:29 PM)
staying in one job for 10 years doesn't mean the worker will have more  experience and most bosses will hire someone outside with higher salary doing the higher management job instead of training their loyal staff or give them increment
*
Why?

Is it because bosses don't want the loyal worker to know too much about the company and the loyal worker has the grass root support?
JungWoo
post Apr 20 2018, 04:39 PM

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some with >10 years working exp e.g. operation L3 but know nuts about their job still hogging on position for 5-6 years. why? with the comfortable working environment they can do all their personal part time, use office printer, phone etc unlimited. the ultimate goal / best scenario for them is vss package. Stayed long in a company also doesn't mean one is worthy

This post has been edited by JungWoo: Apr 20 2018, 04:40 PM
DozeMeWithTea
post Apr 20 2018, 04:45 PM

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QUOTE(Frank3 @ Apr 16 2018, 10:26 PM)
If a person not good in XYZ skill, or don't have solid knowledge that you mentioned, then i believe job hopping is not easy for them, especially MNC or reputed company, their job has hundred to thousands people apply.



I am the one who stay in a company for almost 4 years and mastered everything of my skills, every year obtain high score appraisal, trusted by manager, and teammate. But the reality is, i am underpaid (i accepted the low pay because i don't have the skill initially), and finally i decided to jump because my life is starting to struggle with that salary, unfortunately everyone is asking my previous salary, and my next jump will be based on certain percentage increment of my previous low pay salary (10-15%). At the end , I very regret to stay there for almost 4 years.

PS: If you refuse to disclose your last drawn salary, they will proceed to next candidate, period. Even headhunter/external recruiter will ask for last drawn salary because the hiring company 99% will ask for it. That is my experience so far.  puke.gif
*
You're saying that all interviewer are asking for your payslip? What if you reluctant to review and just nego based what they advertised?

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