The 6.9 % dividend declared in January this year are on last year's savings,
from 1 January 2017 to 31 December 2017.

So what you save from 1 January 2018 this year would earn
dividends, on a daily basis, based on what they declare next January.

If you are investing a lump sum in just once or twice a year, obviously
you would earn more dividends/interest in you invest, say on 1 March,
where your money would be in there for 10 months x 30 days = 300 days,
rather than on 1 December, where you would earn dividends for only one
month or 30 days.



This post has been edited by Tham: Feb 26 2018, 07:32 PM

My own IRR is about 4.8% with PRS (edit: actually, it's around 12.5%). Long story behind it. Won't elaborate here.

For the performance of the funds, try checking at fundsupermart. Generate the table there. Best annualised performance over 5 years is CIMB-Principal PRS Plus Asia Pacific Ex Japan Equity - Class C with 14.8%. The rest are under 10%. 1 year returns are high for China funds due to the fact that China had a great fall in 2016 and bounced back the past year.

PRS funds are supposedly more conservative compared to some of the normal UT "growth" funds.

For PRS, I started with two CIMB funds and am now only focusing on the above said fund. More like giving some business to a friend since it's only 3k a year, but performance for this fund seems pretty good so far.

For my own UT, I go through FSM and have an IRR of about 15.6%. Pretty happy with that vs EPF or FD over the past few years.

I'm someone with a trader mentality. I tend to sell off when the markets feel toppish and buy in after it drops. However, I monitor the markets quite closely as most of my trading is done on the US markets.

This post has been edited by thesoothsayer: Feb 25 2018, 11:02 PM

You're confused between two types of pension system. Defined contribution vs defined benefits.

Defined benefits such as government pensions is unsustainable, as you're guaranteed to get a certain amount of money until you die. And even after that, your spouse would get it. This type of system requires more and more contributor to support it. It's good for the pensioners, but bad for the system provider aka government.

Defined contributions, such as EPF (Malaysia) and CPF (Singapore) is sustainable. Because you'd only get the money the you put in the pot, plus interests.

Go and read more about pension system. Uncle google can help you a lot.

I belong to a defined benefit super in Australia. It gives you a choice to decide upon retirement of a lump sum or a pension for life (and wife gets 2/3 of your pension after you die) or you can decide on a part lump sum/part pension. As you have correctly stated, this kind of retirement scheme (defined benefit scheme) is sending the govt broke as they guarantee the payout (and need to meet any shortfall) - this is why the govt has slowly been phasing it out since the 90s.

Your gf is right, don't need to put too much money in EPF. Because u will never know if your money in EPF is used to pay back the 2.6b.

I am well aware of the different models of pension schemes....I am referring specifically to the defined contribution version as in EPF....

Epf type can have 2 potential problems to face....

When the time comes where withdrawals exceed contributions, the fund starts shrinking....and liquidation of assets starts....you just need a perfect storm of prolonged recession, low asset prices and low returns to see the fund getting into trouble....

And it's a sweet pot of honey politicians love to dip their fingers in....EPF bought into fgv IPO....to their credit, they got out fast once they sense it going sour....but still lost lots of money....this is the aspect many fear....

This post has been edited by limeuu: Feb 26 2018, 11:30 AM

Thanks for the good advice and tips.

I've never tried the share market (never had the resources,
rather). I know hardly anything about unit trusts, really, and
my sister is selling them, I think.

My ex-office manager told me two days ago that you must
be really patient and need good holding power in unit trusts,
since your money takes years to grow, and must be prepared
to make losses, just like the share market.


I had to go look up what IRR was.

With such a low IRR of just 4.8 %, barely meeting the inflation
rate, isn't that extremely low ?

I might join the PRS and invest a small amount into that
CIMB-Principal PRS Plus Asia Pacific Ex Japan Equity - Class C
fund you mentioned, a bit later.

Wonder if they allow someone my age to join.




This post has been edited by Tham: Feb 26 2018, 07:44 PM

The edited number after that is the right one 12.5%. I re-checked the numbers after the original post.

However, choosing a UT to invest in is not an exact science. Many theories behind it. Can take a look at the fundsupermart thread in the finance section to learn more.

If you go for the equity/growth funds, they basically invest in shares or foreign funds that invest in shares. You're just allowing the fund managers to choose what shares to invest in.

I believe in timing the market a bit. Other investors probably think of me as a heretic. But I think everyone should get a strategy they're comfortable with and follow that. I'm still tuning my strategy.

If you look at the fundsupermart table, you'll notice that the annualised return of a lot of funds is below what EPF/Amanah saham can give you. I'd say that if you're not in a hurry, keep your bullets safe for now and buy in at the next crash.

Thanks again for the info.

Will keep that in mind.

Yes, unit trusts are still basically the share market, though less riskier, any losses being buffered by the pool of funds the trust invests in.

It's still all about speculation, manipulation and market forces.



This post has been edited by Tham: Mar 1 2018, 11:18 PM

It seems the EPF also provides you to invest under their
Members' Investment Scheme in these unit trusts.

http://www.kwsp.gov.my/portal/en/member/me...ment-withdrawal


For the CIMB-Principal PRS Plus Asia Pacific Ex-Japan Equity,
they invest 95 % in this CIMB-Principal Asia Pacific Dynamic Income Fund.

http://www.ppa.my/prs-providers/cimb/


So if you invest directly from your EPF to this fund, it is
almost the same.

http://www.kwsp.gov.my/portal/documents/10...sh_28022018.pdf


EPF does not charge any fees, but I am not sure if the fund's fees
may be higher than that investing thru the PRS.

Haven't tried the Members' Investment Scheme yet, but I have the forms ready.

IIRC, from what the FSM agent told me, you need to submit the form with the amount you want to purchase and the top up is less flexible. Not sure about the selling part. For this scheme, I'm only going in when there's a huge market crash. Otherwise, I doubt it can beat EPF dividends. Eg. If you go in now and the market crashes 60%, your NAV will drop almost as much. Will take years to recover your NAV.

Years !

The Net Asset Value = The price at which you purchased the units, minus all fees ?

That means unit trusts are extremely risky, basically the same as the stock market.

@TheSoothSayer


As I said, I know hardly anything about unit trusts, but
this CIMB Principal Asia Pacific Dynamic Income Fund
seems a real performer ?


http://www.cimb-principal.com.my/cimbFunds...ncome_Fund.aspx


If you key the three of them in the chart over 10 years, it way
outperforms both the Dynamic Growth and Ex-Japan funds, which
are already among the top performers.

https://www.fundsupermart.com.my/main/fundi...ter_switch.svdo

I think a lot of the UT for foreign markets basically buy into foreign funds. Like CIMB Greater China fund actually buys into Schroder International Selection Fund Greater China which in turn invests in stocks in the Greater China region.

I believe u refers to this thread.
U failed tagging 😳
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=4352999&hl=

Now why did the government choose unit trusts as a tool to encourage
youngsters to save their money, if their savings can actually be wiped out
overnight as easily as the stock market ?

And how do they expect these young guys to have the
technical know-how like you to analyze and wade thru the
all the intricacies and unknowns ?

I wouldn't even know which fund to choose if you didn't
tell me about that Japan equity.

I think EPF does allow withdrawals every 3 months so that's sort of doing DCA, but someone investing really need to know the risks and what he's buying into.

Also, if you'd bought into a peak at 2007/8 like the fund below, would you have continued buying after seeing it plunge 30-40% like for the fund below to DCA? It's a big ask for inexperienced investors.

http://my.morningstar.com/ap/quicktake/NAV...ivetab=NAVChart

Saying that, if you buy in after a big crash and buy in every 3 months for the next 5-10 years, you should be better off than leaving the money alone in EPF.

It seems the dividends declared by unit trusts are meaningless -
they just lessen the NAV, and it's just the same as passing from
the right hand to the left ?

That means for unit trusts, you have sell it off sooner or later,
in order to make any gains ?

This would mean those guys in the PRS won't be able to save
anything from the annual returns - i.e. the dividends, unlike
those of EPF, and the only way for them to save throughout
their period they are in the PRS, is from the gains (if any)
made from buying and selling over the years.

How can this be chosen as a medium of saving, as I put
earlier, by the government ?

What if they make losses, and end up with a minus balance
at the end, which is quite possible, since most of these young
guys are inexperienced ?

This would mean that holding a unit trust like that Japan
Equity or the CIMB Dynamic fund as a long term investment
is meaningless, and won't accumulate your savings, like the
annual compound interest by the EPF.

By the way, what does DCA mean ?



This post has been edited by Tham: Mar 17 2018, 03:42 PM

I was at the Shah Alam EPF office on Thursday. The Jalan Gasing
branch has been closed until further notice.

So this young advisor, about 30, I was talking to, told me
that the Members Investment Scheme are meant for those
below 55.

So I can't go in.

Then he advised that unit trusts are too risky - even he
self-contributes to the EPF.

Question, how to make self contribution?

Searched online, but no credible or solid response for the query.