er, i personally have not encountered any open racism yet but i can sense that the angmo consultant are more likely to talk to the angmo students than the asian students (especially IMU ppl who still dont get their european humor). hmm i'm not sure about aussie

oh yea about 30 percent of the my class are asians (non-angmo, probably 20 percent are chinese lol) not many ppl return to seremban as far as i know unless they failed twice lol

erm for the US (thats from hearsay) they dont really have a good medical protection society that safeguard doctors from screwing up, so there's heaps of lawsuits regarding negligence etc for surgical infection blablabla so one has to be really cautious to be a US doctor. No doubt US has the best technology in the world though.

i'm actually looking for a chance for internship in aus as well lol btw, there's 100 percent success rate as far as i know for auckland grad this year (intern 2010) for aussie application (not NSW or VIC) sigh fingers cross there'll be changes in internship placement in aussie. Hmm apparently some states rate NZ equivalent as interstate.

if aus is full, i guess the IMG from aus will have to come to nz then =P lol disastrous

from the sound of it, people 'return' to seremban because they flunk out, not because of racism.......

unfortunately, this scenario paints a negative picture of imu students........so it is true than that some imu students are not up to the standards required in nz med schools?............

is the knowledge gap really wide compared to students studying in pms?

as far as i've heard, imu students seem to be doing pretty ok at pms with only a few flunking their exams there.

yes u are right, traditionally nobody wants to go to nz to study, so ppl usually put them as 7/8 choice after aussie school. so generally ppl who got matched to nz generally dont have very good results ie the borderline students (of course there're exceptions especially in the last 2 years - when IMU need to balance up good students and bad students in uni, and some dean's list students got matched to their 5-8th unis, and IMU said it's the computer!), and otago has higher failing rate due to their exam system as well (4th year = no exam, 5th year = one exam determines every single thing, and imu students suck in consistency)

but the situation has changed in auckland this year after they reduced the number of seats, nz somehow became really popular, and at least 3 dean's list student are coming over next year.

ppl dont "return" to seremban due to racism, are u joking me lol? spent so much but cannot tahan racism is quite bullshit ler imo. There are so many local asians here (after melbourne, not sure about adelaide or brisbane). I've heard that in the UK the patients wont let u touch them if ur an asian, they prefer european, is that true and is that considered as racism? i think the "racism" they refer to is when an angmo consultant fail them in their runs in a situation if it's in msia they wouldnt have failed (due to not speaking up, yea, thats the true asian culture, we listened silently, and wont speak a word unless we really know the answer, unlike the western culture where ppl speak out louddddd).

btw the nz students are freaking smart, there's only 2 medical schools here with about 160 local intake per year per school. and yea, they're freaking smart and studious and enthusiastic, a deadly combo. Yes i mean the "locals", not the international students.

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Added on September 10, 2009, 12:48 pmabout knowledge gap wise, what i realise is that the local ppl are very creative and think out of the box, and imu students tend to follow the notes. Apparently 50 percent of them think that dissection is a waste of time lol coz they dont know what are they doing.

it's not easy to fail really once u enter medical school in phase II (except for OSCEs lol) unless the person really slacks like hell until final exam and yes it's possible to do that. UoA doesnt have an end of posting exam like in many places, so ppl can slacked off and still pass their whole year, but they would be filtered out if they din manage to pass the year end papers...

This post has been edited by cygoh9: Sep 10 2009, 12:48 PM

this is a point i have been always making, which some people take offense with........the developed countries have a high standard of health care, and that is partly due to the high calibre of the doctors......and that is due to very careful selection of medical students.......

hence, only the very academically bright will be considered.........

nz's system takes it further by taking in a lot of students into health science, and selecting the best, academically and applitude-wise, into medicine........

on the other hand, in the developing world, msia included, it is possible to buy a place in med school.........even with very mediocre results.....and unfortunately, imu is one such place........

for those of you in pms, ask yourself an honest question, would you have gotten a place in nz/oz/uk, if you were a citizen/pr there............?

i honestly have no idea. but i guess it won't be as easy as getting into imu definitely.

but i think even if you are a citizen in any country, there are ways of becoming a doctor if you're rejected by the local unis. so many affordable and more lenient unis (in terms of admission requirements) are available overseas. like australian pr students coming to imu to study. so i don't think buying a place in med school is a problem afflicting developing countries alone.

This post has been edited by monkeygirl: Sep 11 2009, 02:04 AM

yes, of course that happens........but then they will NOT be allowed to partner back to their own country.......it's mostly pr's........citizens don't do that usually.....

some will also go to other med schools, but these will not be recognised by oz/nz.......so they obviously may not intend to return to their adopted country, or hope they may pass the amc qualifying exams.........

my point is the INTENTION of the gov education policy........of course there will be exceptions and loopholes......

This post has been edited by limeuu: Sep 11 2009, 08:56 AM

some PR ppl abandon their PR to get back to aussie.

if it was a fair play, some of us probably will be able to grab a seat in local govern med school, but yea, u know what happened. Hence alternative was seek. And loopholes always exist when there's an alternative....

all in all, u cant buy a cert from PMS, so if u are able to graduate, probably ur up to the standard, unlike certain other med schools.

I dont think we could take into account our upbringing/abilities to judge whether or not we're eligible for the developed med school, since it's a diff ball game all together (we were brought up differently, we perceive things differently than the europeans, equal rights for PR and citizens regardless of race in aussie, medicine are subsidized, allowance for the elderly, diff education). It's sooooo different.

This post has been edited by cygoh9: Sep 11 2009, 10:29 AM

as you said, they still will be able to go back to their home countries by passing the amc exams.
so i guess, if anybody has the will, they can become a doctor, regardless of their academic achievement. they just have to work hard for it.

but it's true that our gov's education policy is pretty screwed up. i know of students who slave through stpm, obtained straight As and were not offered a place in any of the local unis. hence, imu provides an alternative for these students.

I disagree. You need to be of a certain caliber to be accepted into medical schools. You need to be naturally smart.

Its the same as any other thing in real life.

You need to be a good at art to be a visual artist.
You need to be strong and agile to win the olympic gold medal.

This is the reason why Russian medical schools fail terribly.

Being hardworking is also essential, but you really do need that baseline academic mark. I've spoken to numerous Australian Medical Students (Melbourne Uni) and they are all mostly duxes of their schools.

The amazing thing is that a very large percentage of them are also very involved in community service, music and sports.

Perfection much?

Sadly, this case is not the case in Malaysian public examinations, where straight As are obtained by perfecting the exam techniques, reliance on 'leaked/spot' questions and the blur delineation between good and average students.

I think an A1 for any subject should be >90% (>95% for maths and add maths).

This post has been edited by zltan: Sep 11 2009, 02:23 PM

Would I have gotten a place in oz if I were a citizen? Oh yeah definately. I've got no doubt about that. Most of my colleages who are from Malaysia are all doing on par if not better than the locals. So far all the consultants that are originally from Malaysia whom I worked with are all doing excellennt in their own specialty

In fact if you ask around doctors working in Australia, Malaysian does have a good reputation of being dedicated and hard working.

100% agreed.
It's quite BS to one can be a doctor as long as he works hard enough. He needs sufficient analytical skills before he can get pass his med school. I wouldnt want a dumb person to be my doctor, seriously.

good for you.......

there is a very wide spectrum of students at imu.......many are very brilliant students, and will no doubt have gotten direct entry if they have tried.........just as there there are very mediocre students who just scrape in past the cut off.......

but the vast majority of students who got in direct into uk/oz/nz will be high fliers........

my question is one for each student to ask himself/herself........in private, you don't have to answer here.......

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Added on September 11, 2009, 4:42 pmsay this in the open med student thread, and expect to get a lot of flax from some med students.......i did........

This post has been edited by limeuu: Sep 11 2009, 04:42 PM

probably not "regardless of academic achievement". I agree they do have to have a baseline academic mark. But I've often wondered how minimum are the requirements to enter the most lenient of medical schools?
Personally, I do feel that private medical schools should be more stringent when accepting students.

you've gotta blame our government and alot of the nonsense going on in this country for most students to not bother applying local, and hence want an overseas education.

what i realize alot of IMU students who do pms, want to save a whole load of cash like me ! If it were up to me, i would be in UK now and i'm sure it would have been the same with the lot of people in IMU.

I also realized IMU does alot of pathology as opposed to anatomy. we have Patho upon patho upon patho. but anatomy wise we're quite weak.

how do we fare up to the PMS students?

Hi all, I'm new here to lowyat forum.

I just finished my BMedSci in IMU and currently waiting to transfer to UQ...

So anyone who wants to know more about BMedSci or Med in IMU (though the system has changed greatly since my time) can just post your questions and I'll try to answer you.

Btw, IMU is definitely a money-making university (which private uni isn't?) but honestly, it's not too bad. The lecturers are actually very credible (speaking for med and dentistry only) with one or 2 exceptions... It's the adminstration that bugs me...

heard that compared with PMS students, we also fail quite terribly when it comes to communication skills.

fun fun>> was the BmedSci course tough? and do you think it was beneficial to your medical studies?

Hi monkeygirl.

We don't do as well in communications compared to the locals there simply because English is not our mother tongue. We're less comfortable expressing ourselves in English. But that doesn't mean you can't do it, just practise all your skills in PBLs.. Be active and contribute. Don't be afraid to make mistake.

BMedSci is not directly beneficial to the medical studies, coz you literally put a pause to your clinical skills and the theory you learn from sem 1-5 on halt for 1 year... But it's definitely beneficial to you as a whole. Meaning interpersonal skills, organising skills, bla bla...

It's not tough, but it's definitely not for everyone. If you hate lab work which is a routine, then BMed is definitely a no-no. BMed requires alot of self-discipline and initiative. If you rely on your supervisor too much, then you're a goner in this course. And this is a research based project, meaning there will be lots of ups and downs... Be prepared for a roller coaster ride...

But at the end, you'll learn alot about reading research papers and stuffs... U know in comm med (i think it's called differently now) where students HATE to read journal articles and journal abstracts? you have to do hell lot of that in Bmed and you will be very good at those at the end of Bmed... Which is important now for docs as we move more towards EBM...

thanks for the reply fun fun
at least i know a bit more about bmedsci if i consider going to one of the graduate unis.

No prob monkeygirl... All the best in ur studies...