I think u definately can make more money eventhough u only have spm. I have many frens who has his own business earning much more pay than 5k below 28. Frankly, if u have the opportunity to go big, then I think u shouldn't care much about the cert. By the way, u can always go back to college to get ur cert (even when u r 40s), nowaday, cert is cheap and usually it is for ppl who dun know what they want in life, and sit in the cubicle from 9 to 5, waiting for every friday and public holiday to collect his or her pathetic 5k in the end of month. And I am one of them. So, if u really have an option, then why not???
Don't forget the most capable ppl in this world never finish his college. For e.g, facebook founder and etc.
What I can say is, follow your passion, and do your very best in what u like. Good Luck

U r rite, that is why only 10% of ppl become successful in this world, not everyone can become boss ok. the rest who are average like us have to work till 55 (if u r lucky), betting all u can on ur phatetic EPF. I am not saying everyone has to start their own business, but u have to know what u wan to be in life, dun waste ur time being a degree holder making 5k and spend most of ur time in a small cubicle forwarding mails or chatting (many here brag how they make 5k without doing hard work, I really wonder what kind of attitude is this? ppl really feel happy getting 5K without doing much work today?).

Oh yes, this thread is about all those average ppl who are making 5k, my point might not be so relevant then. I will just stop here then.

Sigh, I have explained thousands times in this fourm and I think many ppl dun understand what is a forum. This is a forum rite? so u have the freedom to say whatever u think rite? do I have to b successful before I can voice up what I think is successful? does someone has to be a chef to tell a food taste good or bad? U dun have to care how successful I am now, I just voice up my thinking, u can agree or disagree but u r not one to judge me here, understand?

Besides, I never say starting ur own business is the only way to b successful. I just try to encourage ppl to think what u really wan to b in ur life rather than caring so much who else is making 5k per month in this town. U dun have to earn million, but at least u r doing something damn good that u truly enjoy, just becoz life is short. By the way, of course I am doing something different.

Finally, no one has yet answered me that... many here brag how they make 5k without doing hard work, I really wonder what kind of attitude is this? ppl really feel happy getting 5K without doing much work today?

I believe it is not that difficult to make more than 5K in KL these days, almost all my frens who have a degree make more than 5K in their late 20s in KL. The factors to help u get 5K mayb are:
1) the field u r in
2) qualification
3) company u join
4) some luck
5) personality and capability
6) and etc...
Few years back (2005) I used to make 5k (when I was below 28), and I feel that it is alot, and I live a quality life. But when I come back to KL recently, everything is so expensive, the chicken rice is 4rm now (or more). The only thing is still cheap in KL is petrol (heard it will increase next year) and car (I mean proton). But it is just very hard to survive on ur own with 2k or 3k nowadays in KL. That's y I really think 5k at 28 is really a norm now, nothing to shout about. We should change the thread to "how to make more than 10K at 30"...

Instead of day dreaming of getting 22k per month, please accept the fact that only very very few ppl get this kind of offer ok. probably 0.01%. I don't doubt your ability of making 22k at some shell or oyster company but it is just not reasonable for others.
According to statistic, the average pay of an engineer with more than 5yrs experience make 80k to 100k USD which is around 22k to 30k rm per month. but....

1) we r third world country and they r first world
2) they work at headquarters and we work at their oversea branch
3) they r doing all the real stuff (design.. R&D), and we r doing donkey jobs for them. u can ask those engineers in penang US MNC

So? do u think they r going to pay us more than the US counterpart for being lower productivity? why would they wan to outsource if we r same as them? And u guys wan a pay higher than the US counterparts? so please wake up... In fact, u have better chance to make more money in local company. And if u wan to argue that many engineers in US and europe can make very high pay, I would say.. mayb, that is why alot of those companies r losing like hell and cutting headcounts. Same goes to the dubai, everyone used to woo and ahh about working in dubai for high pay, and now many flee because it is too expensive to sustain... the worker pays r crazy and the whole thing looks like a scam

I always believe, ur pay is directly related to ur productivity, to sustain the high pay. so the equation is simple, if u wan higher pay, just increase ur productivity and help the company to make more money!!!

Well, u can claim that u r SAP or watever shit. I know what SAP is ok. I just read that u r doing nothing at ur office while getting 22k, I dun think that is something reasonable also.

Personally, I know many partners wif high pay, but they really create such value for the org.

Finally, yes, malaysian engineer can not get high pay because:
1) they r not working hard enuff
2) no passion in engineering while being an engineer (many even involve in direct sales and insurance selling, funny rite?)
3) even if they wan to work hard, there is not much opportunity in malaysia, we dun have our own intel after intel invested here 30 years... I guess china would have their own intel already if intel dare to put R&D there for 3 years.

I have repeated thousands times in this forum and I really think ppl here just dun get the point. U dun have to b the best to critize or give comment in a forum, like my example, do u have to be a top chef to tell the food taste good or bad in a restaurant? Do u have to b a professor to tell someone did bad in physics? I dun have to know all engineers in malaysia to tell what I feel.

I never say all engineers in malaysia r not hardworking or without passion, I just said I saw many who doesn't have the passion. Of course I met few very very good engineers, some even gave talk in european countries. But I just saw many who r not satisfied with engineering job, they choose engineering just becoz they dun have better things to do. Compare to my oversea counterparts, they become engineers because they really like engineering.

But dun get me wrong. I have made my statement, making 5k or more at 28 is very common today. There is no big deal. the living standard now is so high in KL. For ex, my ex company, any fresh grad who work there more than 5 years will definately hit 5k.

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Added on December 24, 2009, 1:27 pmHasyir,

Don't get me wrong. I never doubt his ability of making 22k per month. I have mentioned this in my first post. So this only means u din read carefully.

I only said, this kind of pay is not reasonable in malaysia. Only very very few ppl get this kind of pay. That is my main point.

But 5k at 28 is definately a norm in malaysia nowadays. that is my second point.

By the way, it is very childish of u to say that his level is hgher n my level is lower so that he doesn't have to care what I said. No wonder our leaders dun listen to the ppl all these years, because they all have a T-rex brain like u. First, u dun know my pay. Secondly, We must have mutual respect and listen to others no matter how much he earns rite? does it means someone who make less than 2k can not talk to someone who make 5k? is this ur idea?


This post has been edited by wu_shi_han: Dec 24 2009, 01:27 PM

y u guys worry so much, our beloved PM goal is to raise the household income. By then, most ppl will make 5k at 28
Hopefully we dun have to wait till 2020, else if you add in the 3% fixed annual inflation rate, 5k will become 3.7k but we need to ask him, how is he going to increase our income?
According to economics, the most direct way to increase household income is to increase its productivity or GDP.
Next question is, how do we increase GDP?
Again, according to economics theory, the most direct way to increase GDP is to increase either its labour, capital or technology stock.
labour--> we dun have much talents (all going oversea), but we have lots of bangla and indon.. dun know they can increase our productivity or not
capital--> infrastructure or machine, we have cyberjaya, the famous ghost town at least... though our broadband speed still in 1 megabytes for household... I think thailand is better than us
technology stock--> We dun have much to brag about but at least we have an astronaut rite?

Human are born to enjoy luxury life, if we just wan to have food and simple shelter then what is the different between us and donkey????!!!!!!!!!
we created Iphone (just had one, very cool), ferrari, sharkfin, LV, damansara height, heneiken, chrissie chow (wonder what's the price tag) and etc etc because they are meant for us to enjoy!!!!!!!!! we shouldn't settle with economy rice everyday n watch the astro pathetic channels!!!!!!!!!
this world is beautiful and improve day by day because we human are greedy and we always want to b better!!!! Though the price to pay is high but it is worth it for most ppl. This train of economy will not stop, only passenger who can not take it will jump from the train n left behind....

I must say that you din get my point.
First I wan to say that ppl who make less than 5k or 1k are not donkey (else I will have lots of enemy), I never mean that.
What I mean is simple, if we only wan food and shelter to survive another day without desire, then what is diff between us and animal??? so, even if u r making less than 1k but u already tried very hard, then I must say u have done ur job as a human.
I never take anything from ppl who make less than me, I created such value and that is why I am deserving what I get now. That's how an ideal economy works. Of course u can argue that many managers who don't perform much get high pay, well this world is not fair. But most ppl still work hard to get what they want.

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Added on December 30, 2009, 6:03 pmThis is another person who dun get my point.
My main point is, always trying harder to b better is a human nature and this is the nature that keep our world a better place to live. Imagine the smart ppl who work very hard to make TV for u, car for u, now they r even solving the climate issue by inventing the solar panel and wind turbine, yes, they make a lot of money, but they also provide u a better place to live. Imagine if they r not greedy, then everyone will just eat economy rice and no one will make nice steak for u.
Those examples that I used are exagerating to make my statment and this forum more interesting. I thought most r adult here with high IQ, and able to tell that and treat that as joke. How come there is a little guy here who really think everyone can get a ferrari?

This post has been edited by wu_shi_han: Dec 30 2009, 06:03 PM

Hahaha.. dun b so angry. I just voice out what I observed so far in malaysia. I din attack any particular person, u dun have to attack me. I only say many engineers that I observed are not passion and competence.

Who am I to judge? anyone can judge! as long as he observed something. I have said millions times, do u have to b a prof to tell if someone is not doing good academically? I have spent almost 10yrs career as an engineers in malaysia and I have heard from hundreds of engineers in different companies, different field telling me that
1) they hate their job
2) they dun know why they r in engineering
3) they regret they studied engineering
4) many even switch field to other field such as selling shampoo
5) they spent more time on their MLM business
6) they r still engineers becoz they dun have better place to go
7) they think no future for engineering career
Don't deny first, go ask around and see how many actually fall in one of the category above.... When compare to other countries, like the one I m working at, if the ppl dun like engineering, they dun study or become an engineer at all... here, the ppl know engineering pay is lower so they dun go into engineering in the first place. this is acceptable.
dun b naive, and argue about this. U can disagree wif me but definately I can judge!

For those who haven't got 5k yet, and those who tried very hard to get 5k,now u have to sell ur time and youth.. (5k is equilvalent to 31.25 per hour, assume u work 8 hours and 20 days a month)

here is a song for u and me...

邊一個發明了返工 (who invented jobs)
我要給佢米田共
邊一個發明了返工
返到我愈o黎愈窮

為了薪金一萬元
令每天都沒了沒完
一萬元一萬元一萬元
靈魂賣給了大財團

邊一個發明了返工
以為自己好有用
邊一個發明了返工
阻礙我藝術發展重重

到了薪金兩萬元
我的青春就快用完
兩萬元兩萬元兩萬元
我有更多事沒法做完

我渴望有一個平原
沒有政府沒有治權
這平原這平原這平原
有好多個美女舞蹈團

邊一個發明了返工
唔係八婆就係八公
邊一個發明了返工
返工o係度玩接龍

到了薪金三萬元
我o地都應該唔會有三萬元
三萬元三萬元三萬元
三萬元o的人通常都有o的串

我渴望這一個平原
畢業之後o的同學見唔完
見面唔會講買股票 買車
結婚 生仔 買樓 買船

hope this song will cheer everyone up, smile! after the song, we still go back to work and expecting the 5k every month... cheers, u r not alone... the price to pay for us to become more advance nation.