<<financial independant.>>

Stop abusing the words. Until and unless a person can live off his/her investment without working, a person is not financially independent.

Dreamer


This post has been edited by dreamer101: Jun 30 2007, 10:49 AM

genkis3,

500K debt means pay about 30+K per year in interest to the bank every year. Thank you very much for working like a slave for the bank. I would rather own the bank and collect money from you. Getting pay motivate me more that paying 30+K of interest to the bank every year.

Dreamer

Dark NT,

That is not true. I give sales presentation and training to Americans. I studied in SRJK©. But, I got my degrees from American universities. However, I am NOT normal. I am a lot more outspoken than normal people even in primary school.

By the way, I was trained in public speaking via the 10 weeks' Dale Carnegie course.

A person can be trained in public speaking if a person choose to.

Dreamer

---

Added on February 22, 2009, 6:49 amshadow111,

If you DO NOT TALK, how could ANYONE know what you had achieved??? Waiting for others to communicate YOUR achievement is not going to happen. We do not want take credit of OTHERS achievement. But, if we DO NOT TALK, we cannot take advantage of OUR OWN ACHIEVEMENT.

You NEED communication skill for office politic self defense.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Feb 22 2009, 06:49 AM

mindlinc,

The answer is OBVIOUS. Do not have

A) Car Loan

B) House Loan

C) Children

at the same time if you have only 5K per month income. But, this is not the answer that people want to hear. They like to WHINE.

(A), (B), and © are all CONSCIOUS decisions that someone make.

For example, do not buy a house until you paid off you car. Do not have children until you paid off your house.

Buy a cheaper car so that you can paid off earlier. Buy a cheaper house so that you can paid off earlier.

Do not LIVE in a lifestyle that you CANNOT afford.

How do you know if you are living in a life style that you cannot afford??

It is VERY SIMPLE. If you cannot save 10% to 15% of your gross income after paying everything every month, you are OVERSPENDING. The numbers do not LIE. But, you MAY NOT like the TRUTH.

Dreamer

Let's take an example. With 5K per month, if you go CHEAP and buy a 30K car, you could pay it off in two years. Ditto, if you go cheap on house and buy a 150K to 200K house, you can pay it off in 5 to 7 years. Now, if you go cheap on house, you probably could afford to have children while paying house loan.

Now, to do all this, you have to live below your mean (LBYM). Aka, you have to live below what normal 5K people spend on. Can you do that?? This is where my favorite phrase come in.

Average people are not rich. Rich people are not average.

Average people will live in a lifestyle that they will save little or nothing. To survive financially, you need to live a lifestyle that save 10% to 15% of your gross income. To be RICH, you need to live in a lifestyle that save 30% to 50% of your gross income. Can you do it?? Average people cannot do that.

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Apr 25 2009, 10:22 PM

SPS,

Malaysians are RICH. Our average gross saving rate is 33%. In my definition, a RICH person is a person that can live within his / her life style and save a lot of money. By that definition, Malaysians are RICH. It is NOT how much you spend that determine whether you are RICH. It is how much that you save.

<<Our average gross saving rate is 33%.>>

I believe and in my observation, we have 2 group of people in Malaysia: Spend it all and Ultra savers. The spend it all group save nothing except EPF. The ultra savers are those that save 50% of their gross income. So, those 2 groups add together and averarge out to be 33%.

To achieve 33%, the average Malaysian has to save 11% on top of EPF.

BTW, we have 1.2 millons to 1.4 millions civil servants. And, they have pension and other benefits that are NOT taxable.

Dreamer

deodorant,

I had said do not buy car and house at the same time.

Dreamer

seantang,

Read this

<< People who have little money but save a big proportion of it are not rich. They are poor, and will always be poor because of the simple fact that they have little money. Living within your means is not rich. That's simply thrifty. If you earn 1K a month, but only spend 10 bucks, saving 990, you still only have 990. You're poor. You can take all your 'ultra savings' and you still only buy nothing of any real value.>>

and this.

<<So, it's not how much you spend or how much you save. It's how much you have (to spend or save).>>

Have / saving = income - expenditure.

So, tell me how could a person HAVE MONEY if they spend it all??

<<People who have little money >>

What is the definition of little money??

A) If a person spend 1 million per month and he has only 1 million, he has LITTLE MONEY. He can ONLY survive one month without income.

B) If a person spend 1 K per month and he has 36K, he can survive 36 months without income. He has A LOT OF money.

Money is in relationship to how fast do you spend.

My definition of RICH is FIRE. Financially Independent Retired Early. A person does not have to work but can live of his investment forever with his life style.

Dreamer

---

Added on May 10, 2009, 8:57 amCanopies,

A) The AVERAGE GROSS SAVING RATE is in economic report of Malaysia versus other countries. Google to look for that. I cannot remember when I read that.

B) The two groups are my observations. You and me know there is one group of people that save NO MONEY. So, the other group has to save a lot more to average out 33%.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: May 10 2009, 08:57 AM

seantang,

Let's take your example and do some common sense thinking. And, the amount is IRRELEVANT

If you earn X and you spend X every month, so you SAVE nothing.

A) So, tell me, where do you get the MONEY to invest and grow your asset??

B) Economy and business go in cycle. All it takes is ONE down cycle or one month of NO INCOME, you will LOSE everything because you have NO RESERVE.

To survive FINANCIALLY, a person has to at least save 10% to 15% in order to build a buffer / reserve to sustain their life style for EMERGENCY.

Without savings, the person has NO MONEY to invest and cannot grow the asset.

We are TALKING about CASH FLOW here. Even if you have MILLIONS in asset, without enough CASH FLOW, you still can be bankrupted.

Dreamer

---

Added on May 10, 2009, 7:15 pmCanopies,

There are OTHER PEOPLE reading the same post. This is a PUBLIC FORUM. So, the person that I responding to may not be listening. But, some other folks may learn something from this.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: May 10 2009, 07:15 PM

seantang,

Who is talking about perpetual state of being?? It is COMMON to have financial emergency. A 3 to 6 months of reserve is necessary. And, in order to build 3 to 6 months of reserve, a person need to save 10% to 15% of income.

<<I am applying a technical and correct definition of rich e. someone who has lots of money to spend>>

Who says that YOUR DEFINITION is correct?? I am saying that it is WRONG.

My definition of RICH and WEALTH is in term of NET WORTH aka RDPD's definition. How long can the person keep in his / her life style without working.

<< If we apply these concepts fully, then nobody is "rich" as everybody is vulnerable to something and there can be no guarantee that one is rich forever.>>

Which is a bunch of BS. I know plenty of people like that. Their income / cash flow is much much greater than their expenditure. So, their net worth is growing much much faster than their expenditure. So, tell me how they cannot be rich forever??

Common Sense again

Saving = Income - Expenditure

For those people, their savings grow every month. And, as long as their savings are invested wisely and beat inflation, their net worth is compounded indefinitely.

Harvard University is funded by a TRUST that is 100+ years old. They spend 4% to 5% of that trust every year. So, it has lasted for more than 100 years. This is more than forever for most people.

<< As for your point about having no reserves, go back to my earlier point about how spending changes the form of value from cash to some other tangible form of value (eg. a car, property, mobile phones, watches, wine etc... >>

Didn't you just tell us that the person spend it ALL?? If that is the case, how can there be ANYTHING of value that the person has?? Buying a house is NOT an expenditure. It is a form of saving.

We will see pretty soon how many people are "Pretend Rich" as opposed to really rich during this global recession.

Dreamer

---

Added on May 10, 2009, 10:13 pmwodenus,

Buying property is NOT expenditure. It is a form of investment.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: May 10 2009, 10:13 PM

~hunter~,

Google "Pay Yourself First". That is the best way to save money.

Dreamer

seantang,

The question here is whether your statement as per

<< If we apply these concepts fully, then nobody is "rich" as everybody is vulnerable to something and there can be no guarantee that one is rich forever.>>

is a bunch of BS.

Now, you cannot take the heat and you do

<<Btw, up yours for the BS putdown. If you can't stay civil, you can shove it up your arse.>>

Who is NOT being civil here?? I focused on your statement. I do NO personal attack.

Now, if you disagree with my assessment that your statement is a bunch of BS, you could present a rational and consistent argument as to where I am wrong.

If you CANNOT stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

<<If you can't differentiate between BEING rich and STAYING rich, no problem. You carry on.>>

I do not consider spending a lot of money as being RICH period. As per YOUR definition, anyone that has a credit card with high enough credit limit is RICH. Now, how logical that is?? That person is rich until his / her credit card statement shows up.

Dreamer

spanker,

1) The CORRECT question is which definition is more useful to a person. If THINKING in a wrong way does not help you, why not think in a RIGHT way.

<<So any notion of retiring early always has a big pinch of wishful thinking.>>

2) At least 2 in my immediate family had done it. And, I know many more.

<<And anyone investment savvy person can tell you your RM x is not worth RM x tomorrow. >>

3) An investment savvy enough person will be savvy enough to get their investment to beat inflation. Or else, the person is no better that someone else putting their money in FD. So, their investment should worth MORE than inflation rate in the long run.

Dreamer

hazairi,

When you ask the WRONG question, you will NEVER get the RIGHT answer.

The CORRECT question should be what is missing in YOU that stop you from getting the 5K per month job?? Can you close the GAP?? If yes, who care how old you are??

Dreamer

Jimzhai787,

<<He told me to work for him, coz i have quite a talent on electronics.>>

<< He told me, paper is nothing as long u have skills and patience.
More over business relies in ur wisdom,endurance and experience.>>

So, what do you LEARN from him?? What do you get beyond the 2K per month?? Will you be getting a share of his business?? Profit sharing?? What kind of business experience will you be getting?? What did he teach you?? What is he teaching you now??

I am NOT saying that he may or may not be giving you the RIGHT advice. But, action speaker louder than word. What is he doing for you?? How does he plan to help you grow?? Or, you are just going to be a mechanic forever??

Dreamer

Jimzhai787,

He has a diploma. You don't. Area such as electronics evolves very very fast. So, if your foundation is not strong, you MAY NOT be able to handle it.

Dreamer

thyceult,

When you ASK the WRONG question, you will NEVER get the RIGHT answer.

This has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with job hopping or not. The CORRECT question is do you have the SKILL and CAPABILITY to go to the next level?? If you do, you either do it in the SAME company or some where else. You have the CHOICE. You are in charge of your career.

<<Slow climbs up the ladder is a very steady and time proven formula to get somewhere in life>>

A) The company / industry may BUST and stay low for 5 to 10 years. So, slow and steady is not safe either.

B) Time proven formula is make sure that you contribute / produce at least 3 TIMES of your pay. If you consistently do that, someone will hire you because it is PROFITABLE for them to hire you.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Sep 19 2009, 10:16 PM

yothim,

<<loyalty is still the best assets for any companies.>>

Loyalty to who??

Your boss?? -> He / she may not be around long enough to matter.

The company -> The company may not survive long enough to matter. Or, there may not be enough people left that know what you had done. Most companies had LOUSY record as to what people had done.

This is the kind of BS that manager tell YOUNG and NAIVE people so that we do not have to pay them well.

I had been manager for 10+ years. I know how to play this game too. I just choose not to play this kind of game.

<<no organizations would like to hire a job hopper although they had the skills or capability.>>

B.S. The company / organization that do not put PERFORMANCE and PRODUCTIVITY as the number one priority will not survive.

Do you REALLY like to work for a company do not care about productivity and where SENIORITY only matters?? We have plenty of those in Malaysia. They are the GLCs.

<<i think ur manager/senior/friends/family would have told you this before and i guess everyone knew about this fact.>>

I had worked for 20+ years. I see it with my own eyes. I do not need to hear it from someone else. So, how much that you know is REAL??

Plus, I had trained and mentored many many people under me. They all became very successful jumping one to two levels using my advices.

Dreamer

P.S.: The world had changed. There is NO SUCH THING as loyalty to an organization anymore. It does not work.

People that work for and with me is loyal to me. They are LOYAL to me because they know I will do my best to take care of them. But, I will not stop them from getting a better job else where. In fact, I will encourage that if it is a GOOD DEAL for them. Their WELFARE are MORE IMPORTANT than any company. Company comes and goes but human relationship last forever.

So, this social network has MORE LOYALTY than those traditional company and boss based BS. I can still count on help and support from people that I used to work together 10+ years ago. And, this is PRODUCTIVITY and PERFORMANCE based too. We respect each other and we know that we will do OUR BEST as a team. And, based on that HISTORY, the relationship was formed.

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Sep 20 2009, 02:11 AM

yothim,

If you do a search on dreamer at this forum, you will find many of my posts.

<<but i still think that job hopping would not be a good idea. >>

Wrong questions!!! What is JOB HOPPING to begin with??

If you are ANY GOOD, you will out grew your job and / or your company. At that time, if the company has NO OPENING for you to grow into, do you STAY or go some where else??

Hell, if you are ANY GOOD, you should out grew any job in 2 to 3 years. Can you imagine yourself doing the SAME JOB for 5 to 10 years??

What if all the people above you has 10 to 20 years experience and not likely to retire any time soon?? Do you hang around or go some place else??

JOB HOPPING is a BS concept sell by management.

The BOTTOM LINE is VERY SIMPLE. You DO what is GOOD for YOU. And, the company will do what is GOOD for them. If you do not look out for your self, nobody else will.

You manage your own career path since NOBODY ELSE will.

Dreamer

AhChoon,

Successful person makes their OWN luck.

There are TWO kinds of people in this world:

A) People that wait for things to happen to them

B) People that make things happen.

Which kind do you CHOOSE to be?? (A) or (B)?

I have a BSEE and MSEE. But, everything that I learned about networking is NOT from the university. It is from self study.

<<but sure i wont give up anything and will try my best>>

Don't try your best. Do your best all the time.

Dreamer