My friend just resigned from SHELL, to do a full sales job. 100% commission based, to sell property for UK, US and CANADA lands. Risky I would say bu it depends on your contacts and your work attitude also.

You guys will be surprised how much work attitude matters in the working world today than your measly Degree which can be bought any way. I am sure some of you have seen certificates illegally printed out, sold in Bangkok right? It's not like your employer would check your background, especially in a MNC.

Get a degree, get along with everyone, be helpful and always apply team-work. Share your ideas, however fancy it may be (but this depends on your boss open-mindedness). You will do great!

How much do you make right now and what cert u carry?

Since you said you apply for tech field and failed, I advise you to go get yourself a Diploma. A foundation course is nothing, it is FOUNDATION. It's like kindergarten. I dont mean to look down at your certification or whatsoever, I am sure you possess special skills, traits and work attitude but to ease your future, please buck up with your studies.

A diploma will help open more doors and job opportunities. With that, you can based your future solely on experience but I would like to remind you that MNC does take certification into acccount when it comes to pay increment.

2 engineers, one with a degree and one with a diploma. Same team, same workscope. The one with the degree will get paid more and when annual pay increment, he will also get more.

But if your demand is as simple as landing a tech job, get a diploma and work your life up from there. Stop to study if you feel you want to progress further.

Comp Sci / Comp Engineering / IT - all these cert are some what similar. Just find one which contains all the syllabus that interest you and go for it.

Education - more is always good. Degree is common but with it and a little luck, you may end up somewhere high - you may never know.

You are taking it wrong. I am 26 and I make 5k++, near to 6. I think many others make 5k younger than me. You may think 5k is a lot of money but it's not. When I start to make 5k, I think it's not a lot of money - it's not because I dont budget, I do. I track every single cent I spent on a Excel spreadsheet everyday without miss.

Earning 5k is 'quite' easy now. I am trying to move up to 10k with side biz and stock investment. Even an extra 300 ringgit per month would help.

To jump to the next job, I'd consider if the offer is at least 20% higher or benefits is more lucrative.

Yes I understand not everyone has the opportunity, some are much better than what we make today, some are much worse. I would consider myself lucky too I know but from what I have experienced, I think it's do-able, nothing impossible - get what I mean?

I totally agree with you saying that a single income from a day job is no longer suffice in today's economy. Thank you.

I didnt mean to be arrogant. I know the unemployment rates are high and going up but I'd say some 30 - 40% is much dependent on that individual themselves. Statistics, data, graphs are just for show. If you are willing to step out and struggle from bottom to up, I never seen anyone died of hunger when they worked hard.

I know there are some unfortunate people who are being exploited out there. It's true they exist but mostly people are lazy themselves. It is not impossible to make 5k. In fact a lot of my friends earn 3 - 4k but they have some other jobs to sustain themselves like selling things online, make website, do insurance, real-estate, etc. It's a matter of HOW you will make the money.

Have you not heard of those young ones earning 10 or 20k a month?

Even if you make 5k or 10k, if your daily necessity increase, your expenditure increase. It didnt matter how much you make, an increase = more expenditure = less savings. All this FMCG, petrol, ciggy, etc raise a single cent and they country make some noise (which is usually not heard). So what can you do about it? Make more or spend less. That's it.

Yea, so I am lucky. But I do not think my abilities are limited here and my salary is capped at 5k. I started somewhere like you did and yes, it took me a couple of years to get here but like I said, it's not impossible. Like you said so yourself, some has pass the double digit payout. Why are they there and why are we here at the 5k mark?

Maybe I should rephrase saying it's easy is a little too heavy for some of you but it's not difficult. Generally everyone would start low and climb up, it only depends on how fast you climb or how slow you choose to be. It's not difficult as to making it sound as though making 5k is impossible. When you touch 5k and realize how its not suffice, you will climb again like many others do.

UPDATE: I'd like to apologise if I sounded like a snot. Everybody goes through a 3 - 5 years of working life before getting here. Some never got here, some took a shorter period to get pass here and further.

5k sounds like a lot, sounds difficult even to a lot of you who are less fortunate (you guys said I'm lucky, right?). But it's not something impossible for many of us if you put your mind to it. I am sure there is always a way to get to the 5k mark and it wouldnt be all that impossible to get there. Making 5k isnt something that cannot be done, there are friends who make more than I do without a cert.

Nothing is impossible.

Yea, I see you're the only one who understand my statement. I didnt mean to offend anyone or sound arrogant. Like you said many are short changing themselves in their work and life.

There is always room to improve, for change, to climb. Some people get so laid back and comfortable that they dont wish to 'fight' anymore. Some people, never stop fighting and pushed on.

I am saying all this because I know even though I am living with this kind of payout, there are many more younger than me making more than I do. This drives me to be better and make more.

I come from a poor family. I know what hard-earned really means. I had my time in some cinapek company. I had my time working part time. I paid my own education and work at the same time. It took me longer than others to obtain a degree because I worked at the same time.

All this is part and parcel of life. This make us (who wants to improve) drive forward and work harder, achieve more, benchmark yourself. This are my thoughts. Before you work, you wonder if you can touch 3k, after you get 3k, you strive for 5k, then more and more and more... Or will you just stop and be content with 5k?

Yes, I understand what you mean. I think we are a little bit different. I love challenges and I often benchmark myself on how far I could go. This is what I do. I may earn 5k now and jump with every 2k for each 5 years time span. How long can I keep them steady?

Well, when I reach a satisfaction level, I would stop until I am offered again. At that so called satisfaction level (i know humans are never satisfied), I will adjust my lifestyle to fit my budget then.

Cool, great that someone sees it the way I do. I totally agree with your statement!

My friend working in China as a mechanical engineer, people expect him to earn in USD$ but he is only making RM4k++, but having a good life there and also found love there.

Is that short-changed? Well, its like we said, up to indviduality. I dont think it's so bad if he likes it, right?

Yes, if I understand the chinese proverb but that does not apply to people who is willing to strive and struggle for success. Surely someday we will all be worn out and tired, then we will stop but while we are young and kicking, compete and may the best man wins.

Earn 5k and be 500k in debt
Earn 5k and have 0 in asset
Earn 2k and genuinely happy

Since this is hypothetical, I'd earn 5k, have asset and still be happy. Yes, you can have all if you work for it.

Wooo... that would be enlightening but he / she would probably have some kind of special job in the oil rig or somewhere at Dubai or middle east! Sure not like our regular 9 - 5pm job at Peninsular M'sia, very low rate nia...

Where got until no life? Some people does have such luck! Maybe some taukeh son work for dad leh? Pampered young director with BMW and 10k paycheck? Possible, right?

I bloody agree with the first two sentence. I think when you are young, you can buy a home of 300 - 500k and then payback slowly when you work. You also motivated to make more money! Its damn true!

Yes, I agree, there are some people 30+ liao still live with parents with little responsibilities and commitments. Watch anime la, collect action figure la, play game la, save all those hamsap wallpaper la, no car, no house, no investment, just lepakkk... This is satisfying for them, but not for me - not at all. Unfortunately, my parents not like that - my parents throw me to fend for myself and pijak pijak me, pissed me off, complain to ppl about me, look down at me - so I will grow strong and fight! Of course some times, I really hate them but then I know in the end, I'd appreciate how they pressure me and teach me in a very ROUGH way to make me a man.

Last time, my parents look down at me. Now, they go out, I become hot topic. So, I feel everything pays off in the end. I still live with my parents today, I am the only son. I take care of them. I want them to be happy. I want to get marry and still live with them. I want them to love my wife. After two years of marriage, I will move out, nearby - close to my parents, close to my in-laws - this is the family values I've been taught.

As for side income, I can tell you I dont have those unit trust and public mutual. I wish I have them but then I didnt. I have a sensei, a lady who teaches me the stock market in deep details and she is a housewife, previously worked for Sugar-King as private secretary but now old and retired liao, children away in England and Canada - so she adopted many young adults to teach them about the stock exchange. This lady is my best friend's god mother, so I happened to be one of her lucky students.


Yea, I think Loreal make-up artiste expert earn something like more than 13k per month just to make up. I know cause my fren is in that company. MLM those kind of thing make me puke - not interested in those Cosway, Amway, Diamond, etc crap.

Cybercafes and mamak every night? Necessary?
Cigarette and drinks, healthy?
Pubs and clubs? I dont see they got library and bookstore right?

This is the different kind of mentality la. I have some close friends who make 4 - 5k but spend everything on liquor. Can bring you in any disco at any time, know bouncer, VIP room, everybody knows him - no need drive sports car, just normal car but drink like tong besar. Bill cannot pay, sign, father pay. Its how we were brought up, that is what make us different.

This post has been edited by Pennywise: Sep 14 2007, 01:11 AM

Simply put, nowadays, nothing is impossible la.

First class degree graduated at 24 years old so late? Earning 5k at 30 years old so late? Can get la but too late that by the time you are 30, you will realize that 5k is not enough to spend for house installment, car payment, petrol, toll and makan-makan. Dont even dream about car servicing, vacation and marriage with your own money.

To be honest with you, I'm a third class degree honours (nothing to be proud off but I was already working and studying at young age) and I made 5k when I was 24. Today, I make more than that but my expenditure also increase. I drive an Altis and if without any investment, I can honestly tell you I cannot afford servicing the car at Toyota Service Centre because for my past 11 services, non of them was below RM600. Without my investment, I cannot dine at Osaka 3 times a week and still go to Italiannies every weekend. I just want to remind you 5k is not alot, especially 6 years from now and your first class degree isnt going to help you.

Come back to me at 6 years and tell me if I'm right.

This post has been edited by Pennywise: Dec 5 2007, 08:11 AM

Yea la... Astro, handphone, water, electric, broadband there also dont know korek how much already.

I'd like to correct something here. I'm nowhere near fortunate, I am not from a rich family, however, I didnt go through STPM either. I went through 'WORK'. Then I went back to study with the money I made. 24 years IS too late, even if you go through STPM.
17 - SPM
18 and 19 - STPM
22 - Completion of a 3 years Degree (I'm assuming he's in IT, unless he's in Engineering / Medicine).

I feel proud with the things I gained on my own and the lifestyle I chose to live, who wouldnt be? I doubt there's anything wrong with that. Dont feel offended, I'm not here to argue but I did went through my own hard times and this is the perception I have from my experience.

Sure I also live a simple life sometimes, eating at stalls and all but everyone would want to live to the fullest there is. Materialistic example would be good food, comfy home, faster car, more money, etc. I was just showing the guy I quoted his post, that living the fullest isnt anywhere close to 5k. And of course, Toyota isnt the best car out there yet unless it's something like a Ferrari or sorts but it's still a proud thing as an individual achievement, get what I mean?

If we attain the car from family wealth, then different story la. Then THAT is luck, to be born with a silverspoon which not everyone has. I'm sorry to hear that you fell into a trap. Mind sharing the story so everyone can learn from your lesson?

Your life and mine are different, that's for sure but try not to assume everyone got it easy.

Stock investment. I have a lady who runs these things for me. She's my best friend's mom and a very active investor in the stock exchange. Like b00n wrote, it's about luck that she happens to be my best friend's mom.

This post has been edited by Pennywise: Dec 5 2007, 10:33 AM

I was looking forward to your reply. I understand what you mean. During my college days, I survived with RM500 but now, every month, I spend bout 3 - 4 times more than that.

Right now, I'm possibly at your time when you were in your younger days. I realized the same thing you wrote above. It's true. Also, my commitment times are coming, like yours did and I also see it like you do but luckily I have some savings as I dont drink / smoke / club / mod-cars. Possibly that's where I saved.

Some people can start a family with 2k, I feel I cannot even commit with 5k. I know what you mean exactly but we (my gf and I) are both trying to make ends meet.

Lastly, I agree luck does have a role in lives and not everyone knows how to grab the chance when its here and many miss it. Therefore, there's more poor than the riches. I could be stucked here with this pay all my life but I also can be better. My luck is my best friend's mom who manages my investment portfolio for me.

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Added on December 5, 2007, 11:15 amWhat I really like to add is making 5k for living is really not enough depending much on your demands and quality of life. If you intend to drive a Proton and live in a double-storey with a not-demanding gf and in law, sure why not? Especially better if you have supportive relative / parents that can sponsor you a bit here and there. Then 5k should be sufficient for you with yearly increment.

What if you have a kind gf from a rich background with demanding in-law? Also take into calculations that you lived a poor life and you want more and more and more, better and better and better. Your dreams would be a bigger car and home. 5k wont bring you anywhere near here.

This post has been edited by Pennywise: Dec 5 2007, 11:15 AM