hmm....good assumption....it may guide me..thanx~ ;P

Would moving around too much seize learning opportunities? Perhaps I'm naive in my ways but what about loyalty?

To add some info to this moving around, I know two people very well, the first stayed at the same MNC company for ten years. The second guy moved around 2-3 times in ten years. Both have similar qualifications. Today, both guys have about the same salaries, however what is interesting is that the second guy's salary went up significantly faster. So loyalty and all is nice but jumping ship at the right time can give you a big salary boost.

loyalty...

well .. think about that seriously..

they can sack u at any time..

@tishaban,
Yes - the point here is to jump at the *right* time - not jump all the time *grins*

@ganz,
I suppose I'm a loyalist at heart *sigh*

the keyword here is.. find a way to "keep what you earn"

loyalty is dead.. it's an old economy and the paradigm has shifted..
it's foolish if you focus too much on this element.. ample examples is worldwide (if you read wide and deep enough, you'll find it)

it can be a very mercernary way to earn your keep today..

@lwb,
If I'm being tortured and abused, I wouldn't remain loyal for long. There's a time and place for everything; and that includes loyalty too!

Do I have to s-p-e-l-l everything out clearly here?

Yup...totally agree with jumping at the right time. By the way, how much percent of increase in salary will you demand for the next job you are going to ??

Like that, I think earning RM 5K is only possible in the category age of 33-36

i'm also like that.. i work for 5 years (my first job since graduate) never MC, working like hell 24/7 standby without any extra allowance or even a free phone line..while my university mate already increase their salary 50-60%.. i still just get yearly increament of RM80. (it is among the biggest comp in malaysia)

when the time of rewarding i.e staff exchange program (6-12 month oversea), training oversea, promotion, Factory Acceptance Test (FAT) at oversea.. why pick other people who not related at all..

lots of senior said my future is bright there.. well it is not black and white.. anything can happen..

i (actually 1 batch of us) take a bold step and jump into another company.. .. but truly.. I miss my old workplace.

This post has been edited by ganz: Sep 13 2007, 01:11 PM

one of my engineer got an offer 44% from his current salary..but yet he still remain here....he said...he love the work condition in here....

You are taking it wrong. I am 26 and I make 5k++, near to 6. I think many others make 5k younger than me. You may think 5k is a lot of money but it's not. When I start to make 5k, I think it's not a lot of money - it's not because I dont budget, I do. I track every single cent I spent on a Excel spreadsheet everyday without miss.

Earning 5k is 'quite' easy now. I am trying to move up to 10k with side biz and stock investment. Even an extra 300 ringgit per month would help.

To jump to the next job, I'd consider if the offer is at least 20% higher or benefits is more lucrative.

you barked up the wrong tree..
i'm not pointing a gun to your face..
if you want example.. learn from the so-called "corporate leaders".. aka ceo, coo, cfo, or the vp(s)..

their tenure in any given company is getting shorter and shorter.. i'm sure if i get to ask them this question about loyalty.. i'm pretty sure i'll get an interesting answer..

they leave with a golden handshake.. and you shall leave your company.. bitter?

i've altered my paradigm on this issue about 5 years ago.. i read/listen/witness/ponder about it..

but i do agree with you on one thing.. which is "there's a time and place for everything"... it calls for wisdom.

You could move across industries to gain a better understanding of them, adds value too. No one wants a person who has 20 yrs exp in one comp, but te type of exp is 1 year repeated 20 times...

Good for you. Not everyone has the opportunity. But yes, side biz and investments I feel are necessary to supplement us, a single income from day job no longer suffice in today's economy...

listen here..

every move in consideration shall creates both risk and opportunities.. there're lots of cost, price and to some extend, sacrifices..

even if you're not tortured or abused within your own company.. or put in a different light, even if you're treated absolutely well.. consideration to move can spell an unexplored opportunity..

the higher you go.. 5K, 10K, 15K, 20K... the more sacrifices/risk will be stacked against you.. not many people stay long in high positions (internal politics can take you out, for example.. or you may practically get burned out)

i can align to what vey99 have said.. some move can be deliberate.. e.g you can learn about an industry(vertical rather than horizontally).. or you can gain more pieces of the jigsaw puzzles of an industry to form a better insight on the bigger picture by moving to a different function all together..

i said this from experience..

that's a very arrogant statement.. unless you live in a fantasized turtle shell.. go talk to the growing horde of unemployed graduates..
or if you want a better and more objective statistics.. go check out jobstreet on their payscale-industry-time survey..

although it's not to be construed as 100% accurate.. but it'll ought to give you a rethorical idea..

or another point for you to ponder.. if the majority of the rakyat in malaysia are earning more than 5K... why would petrol prices, chicken, cement, toll upward movement by a few cents bothers them?!?

so, don't make a punkass out of yourself with such a claim.. it's loud

There's a difference between loyalty and comfort; and many a time, employee mistook this comfort as being loyal to the company.
They are reluctant to leave thus viewing themselves as loyal.
But when situation or environment changes i.e. the comfort level is off the mark, then we'll start to really see loyalty. Usually changes of new bosses i.e. the saying: People do not leave their job, but they leave their boss.

I believe is only qualified to say he/she is loyal to the company if he/she has passed through the changes (bad times especially). If not, a lot of time it's just comfort.

Example of what I meant:
p/s: tinkerbel, hopefully no offense taken by quoting your remarks; it's just my humble opinion.
A loyal person would say that even if I am being tortured and abused, I would still serve the company well because eventually the company's welfare matters.

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Added on September 13, 2007, 2:59 pmYou are lucky then....
It took me 4 working years from a mere RM1,500 to get pass the 5K mark and I considered myself lucky and I wouldn't boast that it's easy as not many ppl surruonding me made that.
But also, some had went pass the double digit payout.

All I would say is it depends on which industry you're in.
Also depends on what you yourself are doing. So I would rather refrain myself from quoting "it's easy".


This post has been edited by b00n: Sep 13 2007, 02:59 PM

it's also called "comfort-zone"... a few stories were written/told from it, e.g "freddy the frog"..

but i find it hard to agree on sticking with a company and ride through the bad times.. the caveat here is.. don't do it blindly.. evaluate and think carefully.

there were many loyal, honest & hardworking employees in ENRON..
there were also many comparable good employees of COUNTRYWIDE..

loyalty has a PRICE.. (for those uninitiated.. many of ENRON / COUNTRYWIDE not only lost their jobs.. but also their lifetime EPF.. think about that)

Yes I understand not everyone has the opportunity, some are much better than what we make today, some are much worse. I would consider myself lucky too I know but from what I have experienced, I think it's do-able, nothing impossible - get what I mean?

I totally agree with you saying that a single income from a day job is no longer suffice in today's economy. Thank you.

I didnt mean to be arrogant. I know the unemployment rates are high and going up but I'd say some 30 - 40% is much dependent on that individual themselves. Statistics, data, graphs are just for show. If you are willing to step out and struggle from bottom to up, I never seen anyone died of hunger when they worked hard.

I know there are some unfortunate people who are being exploited out there. It's true they exist but mostly people are lazy themselves. It is not impossible to make 5k. In fact a lot of my friends earn 3 - 4k but they have some other jobs to sustain themselves like selling things online, make website, do insurance, real-estate, etc. It's a matter of HOW you will make the money.

Have you not heard of those young ones earning 10 or 20k a month?

Even if you make 5k or 10k, if your daily necessity increase, your expenditure increase. It didnt matter how much you make, an increase = more expenditure = less savings. All this FMCG, petrol, ciggy, etc raise a single cent and they country make some noise (which is usually not heard). So what can you do about it? Make more or spend less. That's it.

Yea, so I am lucky. But I do not think my abilities are limited here and my salary is capped at 5k. I started somewhere like you did and yes, it took me a couple of years to get here but like I said, it's not impossible. Like you said so yourself, some has pass the double digit payout. Why are they there and why are we here at the 5k mark?

Maybe I should rephrase saying it's easy is a little too heavy for some of you but it's not difficult. Generally everyone would start low and climb up, it only depends on how fast you climb or how slow you choose to be. It's not difficult as to making it sound as though making 5k is impossible. When you touch 5k and realize how its not suffice, you will climb again like many others do.