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TSjetip
post Jan 6 2018, 10:13 AM, updated 7y ago

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after 3 yrs working as a .NET dev I doubt I want to continue to work as a coder in the future

after 3 yrs I think I'm still a newbie, coz in this 3 yrs I don't really work fully, coz sometime requirement delay and those easy bug fix I don't actually learn much. I see my friends who're working in startups, they can code their side project during the weekend, seems like they're enjoying what they do. Of course I can be happy being a mediocre coder and expect less, I can see my senior all not so good dev,but manage to survive (at least have a job)..
jimmybcmy
post Jan 6 2018, 10:23 AM

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Take initiative to learn thing. 3 years is long enough to decide if u r in the wrong field or not. Change job if u really can't take it anymore.
TSjetip
post Jan 6 2018, 10:25 AM

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QUOTE(jimmybcmy @ Jan 6 2018, 10:23 AM)
Take initiative to learn thing. 3 years is long enough to decide if u r in the wrong field or not. Change job if u really can't take it anymore.
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it's not about the job i think, i ask around who work in mnc, they said it's normal, work 6 months, slack 3 months haha.
jimmybcmy
post Jan 6 2018, 10:39 AM

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QUOTE(jetip @ Jan 6 2018, 10:25 AM)
it's not about the job i think, i ask around who work in mnc, they said it's normal, work 6 months, slack 3 months haha.
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If you are ok with that, then why want to change.
If not, quickly change job while u r still young.
malleus
post Jan 6 2018, 11:48 AM

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QUOTE(jetip @ Jan 6 2018, 10:13 AM)
after 3 yrs working as a .NET dev I doubt I want to continue to work as a coder in the future

after 3 yrs I think I'm still a newbie, coz in this 3 yrs I don't really work fully, coz sometime requirement delay and those easy bug fix I don't actually learn much. I see my friends who're working in startups, they can code their side project during the weekend, seems like they're enjoying what they do. Of course I can be happy being a mediocre coder and expect less, I can see my senior all not so good dev,but manage to survive (at least have a job)..
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it very likely could be the environment that you're in. the large corporate environments tends to have such issues.

We had a job applicant before, 8 years as a .NET developer supporting in house ERP systems. This candidate was sent to me to do a basic proficiency pair programming test. Initially I was scratching my head on why, as this is a standardized test (adapted from a similar Pivotal Labs hiring test) that we use mainly for the more junior candidates. However the results was quite shocking too. A large number of junior candidates actually performed better than he did.

Granted that the test was done in Java which he's not too familiar with, however the test is designed to assume that the candidate is new to the language, and accesses more on logical thinking as well as ability to communicate their thought process during the pairing session to work through the test problems.

I won't say that he's a bad developer, very likely he does pretty well within his current job, but the more likely reason is, too long within that environment he was in had left him being unable to adapt to new things (and he will need to move outside his previous comfort zone for the job that he's applying for).
TSjetip
post Jan 6 2018, 04:17 PM

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QUOTE(malleus @ Jan 6 2018, 11:48 AM)
it very likely could be the environment that you're in. the large corporate environments tends to have such issues.

We had a job applicant before, 8 years as a .NET developer supporting in house ERP systems. This candidate was sent to me to do a basic proficiency pair programming test. Initially I was scratching my head on why, as this is a standardized test (adapted from a similar Pivotal Labs hiring test) that we use mainly for the more junior candidates. However the results was quite shocking too. A large number of junior candidates actually performed better than he did.

Granted that the test was done in Java which he's not too familiar with, however the test is designed to assume that the candidate is new to the language, and accesses more on logical thinking as well as ability to communicate their thought process during the pairing session to work through the test problems.

I won't say that he's a bad developer, very likely he does pretty well within his current job, but the more likely reason is, too long within that environment he was in had left him being unable to adapt to new things (and he will need to move outside his previous comfort zone for the job that he's applying for).
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supporting developer u know sometime isn't really doing real development, we most of the time just fix bugs so we only understand the small part, me struggle to develop a mini system at home if u ask me to start a system from scratch, I think my role isn't .net dev but a support engineer who can merely do small bug fix.

you gave me an example but didn't give any solid advise lol, are you trolling me?

This post has been edited by jetip: Jan 6 2018, 04:18 PM
malleus
post Jan 6 2018, 09:02 PM

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QUOTE(jetip @ Jan 6 2018, 04:17 PM)
supporting developer u know sometime isn't really doing real development, we most of the time just fix bugs so we only understand the small part, me struggle to develop a mini system at home if u ask me to start a system from scratch, I think my role isn't .net dev but a support engineer who can merely do small bug fix.
When I said supporting an in house ERP system, what I meant was that they're directly involved in working on the ERP system they use that's developed in house. from fixing bugs to feature delivery, etc.

But I think I may have an idea on why you're having issues with trying to start development on something from scratch. Could it be that what you're familiar working with tends to be so complicated with a lot of layers, etc? Try looking at other simpler stacks to experiment with for your own learning purpose and see how that works for you.

QUOTE(jetip @ Jan 6 2018, 04:17 PM)
you gave me an example but didn't give any solid advise lol, are you trolling me?
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Well, my primary purpose is to inform you that the type of environment that you're working in has got its own pitfalls, and there are indeed things to watch out for if you want to remain in the same industry. As for advise? Pick up other stacks that will allow you to move out of the current .NET that you're working on at work.
island
post Jan 7 2018, 05:59 PM

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me, still learning since .net beta, so how long? lately, cooking on my own apps, UWP + MySQL. damn, every days, new stuff pop-out from the Microsoft, Yo, .net standard 2.0 drive people crazy, and the UWP and .Net specification keep on changing. Peoples keep talking about Azure and it's interesting too, i can't feel how many local companies going to using it.

This post has been edited by island: Jan 7 2018, 06:04 PM
TSjetip
post Jan 7 2018, 08:14 PM

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QUOTE(island @ Jan 7 2018, 05:59 PM)
me, still learning since .net beta, so how long? lately, cooking on my own apps, UWP + MySQL.  damn, every days, new stuff pop-out from the Microsoft, Yo, .net standard 2.0 drive people crazy, and the UWP and .Net specification keep on changing. Peoples keep talking about Azure and it's interesting too, i  can't feel how many local companies going to using it.
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why don't you do PHP or Java? biggrin.gif
island
post Jan 8 2018, 03:57 AM

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QUOTE(jetip @ Jan 7 2018, 08:14 PM)
why don't you do PHP or Java?  biggrin.gif
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I don't have a desk jobs. Individual Developer. Web stuffs market is way too crazy, and no market value, peoples can do it for free. My starting is web things, can't get a jobs, wrong time wrong place. Html, dhtml, JavaScript, asp.net,cold fusion, old school stuffs..Net stuff look similar in many ways, so I picked up winform, but I knew vb6 and is easy for me. After awhile, it's come out uwp, I skipped the weird stuffs flash replacement. Now, doing uwp and still learning, too many things to pickup. Free time watching mva, server stuffs, I can fixing computer. But, basically server just lot of configurations.last time, .net Developer at Malaysia job need to be a doctor and above, crazy.

Malaysia is a bad place for IT, wanted cheap and good. Peoples don't understand what the heck is IT, and all peoples see is you just click click on the pc and it's a simple task's. And too many bad apple 🍎 in the market, most common is in technical supports fields., peoples not fixing the system but integrating something else into systems.

This post has been edited by island: Jan 8 2018, 04:10 AM
anti-informatic
post Jan 8 2018, 02:50 PM

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What u do during ur free time or non-working time is really up to u. I'm not sure what u trying to compare with your friends who can do side project at home. But if u are referring to they are capable enough to do their own system because they learn alot at work, I can tell u, lots of people who don't do programming at work actually learn programming by themself. Even before I became a programmer or study college, I learn all by myself and I can tell u that many things are self-learning. So I would say this is really depend on ur own initiative. I saw many who spend time playing game at home and complain they didn't learn much after many years of working. The company can be blamed, but no point.

I also started as a support. Fixing all kind of bugs for long time before go into development team. This really depend on how much u can showcase ur skill. Fixing bug and doing support is important, but u need to aim beyond that. If u have time, take initiative to study the system to perform further testing and try to find more bugs. This allow superior to see that u willing to take initiative and hardworking.

But after all those efforts it still too boring at the workplace, then u need to seek new workplace that allow u to take more challenge. This really up to how u want it. 3 years should be long enough for u to know if u like the job or not.


TSjetip
post Jan 8 2018, 09:55 PM

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QUOTE(island @ Jan 8 2018, 03:57 AM)
I don't have a desk jobs. Individual Developer. Web stuffs market is way too crazy, and no market value, peoples can do it for free. My starting is web things, can't get a jobs, wrong time wrong place. Html, dhtml, JavaScript, asp.net,cold fusion, old school stuffs..Net stuff look similar in many ways, so I picked up winform, but I knew vb6 and is easy for me. After awhile, it's come out uwp, I skipped the weird stuffs flash replacement. Now, doing uwp and still learning, too many things to pickup. Free time watching mva, server stuffs, I can fixing computer. But, basically server just lot of configurations.last time, .net Developer at Malaysia job need to be a doctor and above, crazy.

Malaysia is a bad place for IT, wanted cheap and good. Peoples don't understand what the heck is IT, and all peoples see is you just click click on the pc and it's a simple task's. And too many bad apple 🍎 in the market, most common is in technical supports fields., peoples not fixing the system but integrating something else into systems.
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now fresh grad .net dev can get 5k a month, senior with 3-4 yrs exp can get up to 8k, IT scene is not as bad as you claim.
TSjetip
post Jan 8 2018, 09:56 PM

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QUOTE(anti-informatic @ Jan 8 2018, 02:50 PM)
What u do during ur free time or non-working time is really up to u. I'm not sure what u trying to compare with your friends who can do side project at home. But if u are referring to they are capable enough to do their own system because they learn alot at work, I can tell u, lots of people who don't do programming at work actually learn programming by themself. Even before I became a programmer or study college, I learn all by myself and I can tell u that many things are self-learning. So I would say this is really depend on ur own initiative. I saw many who spend time playing game at home and complain they didn't learn much after many years of working. The company can be blamed, but no point. 

I also started as a support. Fixing all kind of bugs for long time before go into development team. This really depend on how much u can showcase ur skill. Fixing bug and doing support is important, but u need to aim beyond that. If u have time, take initiative to study the system to perform further testing and try to find more bugs. This allow superior to see that u willing to take initiative and hardworking.

But after all those efforts it still too boring at the workplace, then u need to seek new workplace that allow u to take more challenge. This really up to how u want it. 3 years should be long enough for u to know if u like the job or not.
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what make u to have that motivation?
anti-informatic
post Jan 9 2018, 09:46 AM

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QUOTE(jetip @ Jan 8 2018, 09:55 PM)
now fresh grad .net dev can get 5k a month, senior with 3-4 yrs exp can get up to 8k, IT scene is not as bad as you claim.
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Don't think too highly about dev job.

If u want to compare, of course u can get even 8k for fresh grad. Provided that u can take the workload. And actually its the same with many other job. Really depends on job itself and what u want from a job.

While some brag about how high dev job can offer, there are still many companies treat dev and IT as ordinary staff. But if u only focus on how much $$ they offer, u lose the point of being a proper developer. The skill that u learn is what's important in long run, that determine how much u can earn in future.

If young grads focus a lot in how much is being offer but not how much they can gain as an individual, they may easily became one of those helpdesks or support that can't advance to higher level. Good money for now, but no good for far future

QUOTE(jetip @ Jan 8 2018, 09:56 PM)
what make u to have that motivation?
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Which motivation u referring to?

If u are referring to learning things at home all by urself, I motivate myself in a way that I can learn anything I prefer. Not like in workplace, I need to learn specific skill that is required for my work even if I'm not willing to. Start by writing/document a list of skill u like. Write specific details what u want to/need to learn, set priority, determine timeline, be discipline and achieve slowly and steadily.

If u are referring to motivating myself at work, that's really depend on whats ur target when comes to working life. I see many people don't have one. They just depend on their work place to see what company can offer. Not many people thought that they can set their own target too. If you want to become an ordinary staff that complete ordinary job, that's entirely up to u; of if u want to aim higher to do more job that being assigned to and climb higher, that's up to u.

So in the end, it's all about ur own initiative and target

This post has been edited by anti-informatic: Jan 9 2018, 09:47 AM
AnimeSinceForever
post Jan 9 2018, 10:31 AM

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High salary jobs are rare. Of course, companies want people with a long list of qualifications, best way to get one is just to lie and say "you can earn up to 8K" ... but they refuse to tell you who in their company makes that much AND
you also hear "I can get anyone else to fill this position" at which point I reply "then why are you concentrating so much on me and whether I can be a part of your team? Go find someone else."

QUOTE(jetip @ Jan 8 2018, 09:55 PM)
now fresh grad .net dev can get 5k a month, senior with 3-4 yrs exp can get up to 8k, IT scene is not as bad as you claim.
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island
post Jan 10 2018, 08:29 PM

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Try your luck at Microsoft, if you can survived the next Microsoft jobs cut, you are somebody.
mystalyzer
post Jan 14 2018, 08:03 PM

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QUOTE(island @ Jan 10 2018, 08:29 PM)
Try your luck at Microsoft, if you can survived the next Microsoft jobs cut, you are somebody.
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i don't remember Microsoft having a software development center in malaysia. last i remembered, their function in malaysia is more on marketing and supporting their partners
ragk
post Jan 15 2018, 10:50 AM

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QUOTE(jetip @ Jan 6 2018, 10:25 AM)
it's not about the job i think, i ask around who work in mnc, they said it's normal, work 6 months, slack 3 months haha.
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Seek for opportunity frm ur management lvl if u wanted more experience/reward. Some people are getting better pay because they fill the 3 months with something else instead of slacking. Doing the same thing everyday wont give u a different tomorrow.

This post has been edited by ragk: Jan 15 2018, 10:52 AM

 

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