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> Good programmer not appreciated, I am sad.

alien3d
post Dec 7 2017, 12:32 PM

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QUOTE(Kanan Jarrus @ Dec 7 2017, 09:12 AM)
in our corporate business, ass-kissers wins....other fields also ass-kissers wins....

btw, i saw a few hacks on how to navigate when stumble across OP's manager type of behavior:
1)Intentionally do slow work. Even though the job might be easy, but when in office don't just show that we able to chill and pack home early, in fact try to do act as if we are doing the work given at all times(but like stated, it's  just an act). So, yeah, at meantime have to sacrifice our "chill time" since cannot go back early and finish the given project earlier, but can use that time to develop personal skills as well....

2)Intentionally hide in some pre-existing bugs. When manager ask about the progress, just show that there are some bugs/problems that need to solve. And then "taichi" or, again like mentioned, try to fill free time learning other stuffs, and given enough time only show back the manager of the "rectification" that has been done.

My senior once told me that his supervisor(doesn't know shit about web pages) once require him to do a simple front-end webpage. What my senior did was purposely create an unpleasant webpage by just cincai playing with his CSS & HTML. That way, he showed his supervisor in order to get some "feedback", and not surprisingly, his supervisor orders him to remodify the webpage. Turns out he already knew what the specific requirements and layouts are, so he just took his sweet time and patch and it and sure enough his supervisor commended him after that.

The funny thing about the story above is that(according to my senior), there are other member that handles much more better projects when it comes to these stuff, but he never even got such praises because his supervisor thought he's a slacker that only busy getting back home on time.
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normal..... but ain't prefer doing that... vmad.gif vmad.gif vmad.gif
AnimeSinceForever
post Dec 7 2017, 03:24 PM

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There's a reason many of these managers know each other, it's to maintain a cartel and ensure that freelancers have a tough time surviving.

You try to jump to another company and you will be met by a "cartel gang-member" in the form of a manager ... who knows your previous manager.

That's the double-edged sword of networking ... your boss ... also gets to know future bosses, via industry conferences and corporate get-togethers.

That's also a way these bosses survive, by sidelining or kicking out people who are more competent, and using gossip to starve them of customers.

I'd say that is a reason why much later in life, people discover that these bosses cannot do anything by themselves. Or they give the convenient excuse "I have forgotten how to do that".

QUOTE(kiddokitt @ Dec 3 2017, 04:34 PM)
Never mind, just tahan a little bit more to get the experience. Then you later resign and go freelance. You are more valuable that way.
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AnimeSinceForever
post Dec 7 2017, 03:28 PM

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2) seems like the boss wants to show other people "I know what to do".
My reply to that is, if you know what to do ... why don't you do it yourself?

The supervisor might also be trying to insulate your senior from being able to do the tougher projects and therefore become more visible to upper management.

Bosses like to hand tasks to people that will continue to stay in the background so that they are useful tools in case the boss jumps to another company. Or they can be used as a scapegoat to cover for mistakes in the boss' design.

QUOTE(Kanan Jarrus @ Dec 7 2017, 09:12 AM)
in our corporate business, ass-kissers wins....other fields also ass-kissers wins....

btw, i saw a few hacks on how to navigate when stumble across OP's manager type of behavior:
1)Intentionally do slow work. Even though the job might be easy, but when in office don't just show that we able to chill and pack home early, in fact try to do act as if we are doing the work given at all times(but like stated, it's  just an act). So, yeah, at meantime have to sacrifice our "chill time" since cannot go back early and finish the given project earlier, but can use that time to develop personal skills as well....

2)Intentionally hide in some pre-existing bugs. When manager ask about the progress, just show that there are some bugs/problems that need to solve. And then "taichi" or, again like mentioned, try to fill free time learning other stuffs, and given enough time only show back the manager of the "rectification" that has been done.

My senior once told me that his supervisor(doesn't know shit about web pages) once require him to do a simple front-end webpage. What my senior did was purposely create an unpleasant webpage by just cincai playing with his CSS & HTML. That way, he showed his supervisor in order to get some "feedback", and not surprisingly, his supervisor orders him to remodify the webpage. Turns out he already knew what the specific requirements and layouts are, so he just took his sweet time and patch and it and sure enough his supervisor commended him after that.

The funny thing about the story above is that(according to my senior), there are other member that handles much more better projects when it comes to these stuff, but he never even got such praises because his supervisor thought he's a slacker that only busy getting back home on time.
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dstl1128
post Dec 7 2017, 04:41 PM

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QUOTE(iamgay @ Dec 3 2017, 12:48 PM)
...

While I am still chilling there.
...
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Anyone deserve a break after 'lengthy' hard work but It helps/proves nothing chilling there in the corner. In the POV of others you are just slacking in the corner chilling, or even worse, might not be up to the task. It is all about team work and if shit happens and ugly codes get committed, then everyone is an assholes.

If it is a company cultural issues then just leave. Depends on what you want to do? Influence others or let it be or just leave. Your take?


p/s: Others profession faces the same thing as well, not just programmer.

This post has been edited by dstl1128: Dec 7 2017, 04:43 PM
malleus
post Dec 7 2017, 07:42 PM

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QUOTE(AnimeSinceForever @ Dec 7 2017, 03:24 PM)
There's a reason many of these managers know each other, it's to maintain a cartel and ensure that freelancers have a tough time surviving.

You try to jump to another company and you will be met by a "cartel gang-member" in the form of a manager ... who knows your previous manager.

That's the double-edged sword of networking ... your boss ... also gets to know future bosses, via industry conferences and corporate get-togethers.

That's also a way these bosses survive, by sidelining or kicking out people who are more competent, and using gossip to starve them of customers.

I'd say that is a reason why much later in life, people discover that these bosses cannot do anything by themselves. Or they give the convenient excuse "I have forgotten how to do that".
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hmm.. this kind of reminds me of how the entire outsourcing craze started in the first place. where the mantra was, instead of having to deal with such issues when you have to maintain your internal developers, just outsource the work to others. Only problem here is that the work is likely outsourced to another company who has the same issues internally too, which is why the entire outsourcing model didn't work out.
island
post Dec 8 2017, 03:05 PM

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Lucky me, one of my ex workplace giving chance for a free lesson learning about, leadership skills, a leadership course. Too bad, the company itself, flooded with very serious office politics. Those guys brain dead!
malleus
post Dec 8 2017, 04:22 PM

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QUOTE(island @ Dec 8 2017, 03:05 PM)
Lucky me, one of my ex workplace giving chance for a free lesson learning about, leadership skills, a leadership course. Too bad, the company itself, flooded with very serious office politics. Those guys brain dead!
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things does get quite amusing to see when a crack down does happen though smile.gif

seen a case where half the office was laid off, and another case where the entire top management as well as half the middle managers were asked to resign
vscode
post Dec 10 2017, 06:15 AM

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QUOTE(iamgay @ Dec 3 2017, 12:48 PM)
So i wonder is the industry not appreciating a good programmer???

I would give examples of my own experience:

Everyone develop own part. People took 3 days to complete. I take 5 days to complete. End up in testing phase. My one has not many major problem. Take 1 to 2 days to fix. Other people keep retest and retest and take another 2 weeks to pass testing. After 2 weeks, still many problem occur in production. Mine part is still stable.

Later when got requirement changes, everyone rush overnight and rewrite their own part, fix and retest, fix and retest.
While I am still chilling there.

As a matter of fact, I hardly deal with Quality Assurance Team because I did my part well.
I keep seeing other people bug keep reopen and reopen.
Manager thought:
1) Why this guys submit 2 days later than other people? People take 3 days u take 5 days.
2) During testing phase or when there is requirement changes, this guy why so free when people rushing overnight to complete the project he still can go back on time??
I normally will do it right on the first time (make it modularise and extensible) so that i will not need to rework everything if there is changes on requirement.

I think I should have purposely leave some bug there so I can fix it later.

This make me seems to be a better programmer in  view of manager.
==========================================================================

And what makes me angry is well, bug coming up is because you don't do your work well at first place.
You have actually exceeded the timeline to complete the task if including the bug fixing time.
It's already written in requirement and you did not even bother to cater it in your code.
And at the end manager still come praise this people well done.
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your part no bug, must be some easy tasks? do u write unit test? good programmer never skip unit test icon_idea.gif
gamestotal
post Dec 10 2017, 10:01 PM

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cause its a team work, while other people r working n u r reading newspaper, morale goes down regardless
what you should be doing is to offer to help other people, even though it is not your job
that is how u climb the corporate ladder, cause eventually IF everyone in the company relies on you, you are technically the senior programmer, manager or supervisor.


QUOTE(iamgay @ Dec 3 2017, 12:48 PM)
So i wonder is the industry not appreciating a good programmer???

I would give examples of my own experience:

Everyone develop own part. People took 3 days to complete. I take 5 days to complete. End up in testing phase. My one has not many major problem. Take 1 to 2 days to fix. Other people keep retest and retest and take another 2 weeks to pass testing. After 2 weeks, still many problem occur in production. Mine part is still stable.

Later when got requirement changes, everyone rush overnight and rewrite their own part, fix and retest, fix and retest.
While I am still chilling there.

As a matter of fact, I hardly deal with Quality Assurance Team because I did my part well.
I keep seeing other people bug keep reopen and reopen.
Manager thought:
1) Why this guys submit 2 days later than other people? People take 3 days u take 5 days.
2) During testing phase or when there is requirement changes, this guy why so free when people rushing overnight to complete the project he still can go back on time??
I normally will do it right on the first time (make it modularise and extensible) so that i will not need to rework everything if there is changes on requirement.

I think I should have purposely leave some bug there so I can fix it later.

This make me seems to be a better programmer in  view of manager.
==========================================================================

And what makes me angry is well, bug coming up is because you don't do your work well at first place.
You have actually exceeded the timeline to complete the task if including the bug fixing time.
It's already written in requirement and you did not even bother to cater it in your code.
And at the end manager still come praise this people well done.
*
ragk
post Dec 12 2017, 10:56 AM

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If u did something great, let them 'SEE' it.
And gamestotal total are right, if other are busy and u are very free, give some help. I finish my own shit and still have more then enough time to fix other ppl fix. Outstanding employee are outstanding not because they complete what they were expected to complete, but beyond. Chilling vs lend some help, u chosen Chilling. My avg increment is always beyond the market rate because i fix the shit beyond their exception

This post has been edited by ragk: Dec 12 2017, 10:57 AM
AnimeSinceForever
post Dec 12 2017, 01:56 PM

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Seems like a lot of leadership = visibly delegate to people,
If success, leader takes the credit.
If failure, team takes the blame.

QUOTE(island @ Dec 8 2017, 03:05 PM)
Lucky me, one of my ex workplace giving chance for a free lesson learning about, leadership skills, a leadership course. Too bad, the company itself, flooded with very serious office politics. Those guys brain dead!
*
anti-informatic
post Yesterday, 05:16 PM

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Like gamestotal stated, it's not just ur own part. Its okay to chill and take a break after finishing ur part, but working in a team means offering help while u can. Same goes to others helping u when u need it.

If everyone is busy but u are very free, it doesn't seems good. This is how ugly lowly human think, even though no one like to agree to it.

If ur manager confront u and think u are lazy, u can always show him/her ur effort and let them know how u usually perform, like what u written here. People who manage many people usually overlook how individual perform, so try not to expect that they will be very understanding and be less judging.

If he/she refuse to understand anything but prefer to judge, its time to change. It's the manager problem, doesn't mean everywhere is the same. It's ur choice regarding how u want to think.

And if u gonna lower ur work quality and introduce some bugs, delay of work, etc.... just to make urself looks busy like others, that's ur problem lol. If u think that u are good, u should be proud of ur work rather than reduce the quality

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