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Home Theatre HDMI CABLE, Cheap & expensive same quality?

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Ngto
post Apr 22 2007, 08:54 PM

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QUOTE(piscesguy @ Apr 22 2007, 08:18 PM)
Just bought a new HDMI cable to replace my faulty PHILIPS cable.
Costs me RM 180 for 2 meters. Actually didn't feel any difference in terms of picture quality if compare to the more expensive PHILIPS cable.
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You just wasted a fortune on your previous expensive Philips and your current RM180/- purchase.

Just buy a 1.5m RM99/- cable at Lowyat and it will be 100% the same picture quality as whatever expensive HDMI cable because unlike analog signal, digital signal does not depend on signal strength. It's either you get a signal or you don't.

It's just like someone flash a S.O.S signal at you with a torchlight. As long as you can see the signal whether weak or strong you will still interprete the same message.


Ngto
post Apr 22 2007, 09:52 PM

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QUOTE(neoardi @ Apr 22 2007, 09:24 PM)
Yup, u're right. Click here to see what i've found out. thumbup.gif
BTW, i just bought a 1.8 m hdmi for RM65 at Sg. Wang and it's flawless. rclxms.gif
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Wow you found even a cheaper one than me rclxms.gif .
Ngto
post Apr 24 2007, 01:39 PM

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QUOTE(htkaki @ Apr 22 2007, 10:30 PM)
If u guys want, I sell to u all at RM30/pc. 1 metre long. Any taker?
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Already bought last month. Too bad for me you didn't offer earlier.


Added on April 24, 2007, 1:43 pm
QUOTE(piscesguy @ Apr 23 2007, 01:38 PM)
R u now saying that cheap and expensive cables DO MAKE a difference in picture quality?  brows.gif
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Those with shielding are just marketing gimmick, to justify charging more. HDMI not affected by interference so won't make a diff cheap or expensive.


Added on April 24, 2007, 1:47 pm
QUOTE(timothyy @ Apr 23 2007, 04:12 PM)
I bought a cheap S Video cable... RM55 for 20m.

Hmmm... I am having problem with it as the wiring inside is not so good... picture come out sometime and sometime no.

So, getting a good cables might just reassure you that it won't spoil easily.
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You are off topic lah biggrin.gif . S-Video is analog cable where signal strength and quality plays an important part in picture quality unlike HDMI.


Added on April 24, 2007, 1:50 pm
QUOTE(piscesguy @ Apr 24 2007, 05:49 AM)
Since HDMI is a digital cable, 1m and 100m cable will have no impact in quality? rclxub.gif
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As long as the 100m one can transmit the signal strong enough over the long distance to be detected by the receiver the PQ will be the same.

This post has been edited by Ngto: Apr 24 2007, 01:55 PM
Ngto
post Apr 24 2007, 02:14 PM

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QUOTE(timothyy @ Apr 24 2007, 01:59 PM)
Aiyo... u got me wrong la... I am referring to cheap vs expensive cables conection quality. The S Video is just an example that I got what I paid for...
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Not sure what you meant by connection quality.

Anyway using analog to compare with digital cable physical quality is not appropriate.

Since analog cable PQ is dependent very much on the physical quality of the cable itself, even a slight degradation can make a diff in PQ.

On the other hand digital cable will only lose signal with a very poor quality cable at a minimum threshold point . The signal just won't get detected and there will be no picture.

Anything above the minimum quality, whether it's a very good cable or just a so-so cable will give you the exact same picture quality.

So if you buy a HDMI cable don't buy one which is so cheap and poor that no signal can be detected.

This post has been edited by Ngto: Apr 24 2007, 02:16 PM
Ngto
post Apr 25 2007, 09:58 AM

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QUOTE(bond @ Apr 25 2007, 07:48 AM)
Just bought a cheap no brand HDMI cable for RM40 and it is working fine. Found the cheapest branded is panasonic for RM89. Very tempting but i suspect the result is the same.
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Let's put it this way. If the cable is not good quality and becomes defective (i.e losing signal etc.) after months, years or probably never, you can always buy another better one with the savings you have made with your current purchase. By that time even the branded ones will have come down sharply in price as more and more people become aware of the truth behind HDMI cables and PQ.
Ngto
post Apr 25 2007, 09:21 PM

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QUOTE(Red Maniac @ Apr 25 2007, 02:26 PM)
Mind sharing with us where you get the cable.
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Read the earlier posts. 'Htaki' is selling for only RM30/- each.
Ngto
post Apr 26 2007, 11:04 AM

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QUOTE(Jack28HT @ Apr 26 2007, 02:02 AM)
Here is something regarding HDMI cables. It doesn't seem to be as simple as 0 or 1 only because it carries differential signals in cable pairs. Anyone got a chance verify it for 1080P signal ?

HDMI Part 8 - Cables for 1.3
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That's a different specification (1.3) you are comparing altogether. Different specs require different cable requirements due to the higher transmission speeds. When 1.3 becomes mainstream in the future for more advanced HDMI features than it will require higher quality cables because of the higher speeds. The LCD-TV must also be HDMI 1.3 ready to support the new specs.

In the meantime Current mainstream specs are only 1.0-1.2 and our discussions are based on that, so can't compare with 1.3 that way.

This post has been edited by Ngto: Apr 26 2007, 11:07 AM
Ngto
post Apr 26 2007, 11:18 AM

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QUOTE(sunauto @ Apr 25 2007, 09:43 PM)
It depends on how you view such cables, to me, whether the signal is analog or digital, a good cable will always give you good results, it's not a marketing gimmick as you claimed even though, you'll say it is madness to spend thousands on a good cable. If you're talking about HDMI cable, try bringing yours to CMY Sungei Wang and try their QED HDMI-P cable for a start, that's around RM450 (can still nego lah), try to compare the quality on their plasma. They're willing to demo it to you. That day I was asking them about their Siltech SPX-20 (around RM900) and QED Conduit (around RM400 plus) power cords, they played Eagle's Hotel California song and tested these two cables and also the stock power cord that came with the Cambridge Audio's cd player. The openess, mids and highs can be immediately felt on the pricier Siltech power cord, QED did improve on the sound but not as much as the latter. I do believe that good cables can give an extra boost to the picture and sound quality but some may argue that with the money, you can either get a better display or player. Well, that's up to you to judge actually.
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I am not sure about those cables you mentioned, but aren't those power chords you are talking about? Are they even related to HDMI? Power cords have a direct relation to the receiver electrical power itself and not related to HDMI data digital connection to DVD player smile.gif


Added on April 26, 2007, 11:24 am
QUOTE(sunauto @ Apr 26 2007, 11:18 AM)
As far as I know, Wireworld, QED and Audioquest HDMI cables are certified to carry 1080P signals. I'm not sure whether normal HDMI cables will be able to carry such signals without any signals degraded.
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Even if cheap 'normal' HDMI cables are unable to carry 1080 signals (based on ver 1-2 HDMI specs) which is unlikely, there will just be a loss of signal, that's all. Probably a blank screen with a 'No Signal' indicator. You won't get a more blurry image or a dull image etc. That's what I have been trying to say about HDMI cables all this while.

This post has been edited by Ngto: Apr 26 2007, 11:31 AM
Ngto
post Oct 29 2007, 07:01 PM

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QUOTE(Leolabs @ Oct 29 2007, 10:15 AM)
From technical point of view,cheap and expensive cables do have the differences,no matter it's for digital or analog.

Cables are consist of resistance,capacitance and inductance which will 'influence' any signal pass through them.Depends on what type/speed of the signal,difference may be significant or not so.

And don't forget shielding capability of the cables too.
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Here's my take on this issue.

Although quality of cables might affect the signal, but as far as Digital is concerned it's all or nothing. Even if a signal is poor but as long as it is carried through intact it will be the same as using quality cables.

A strong signal carrying a digital 10001 will be exactly the same as a weak signal carrying 10001. That's because the 10001 itself is the info, not the strength of it.

If the signal is so weak as to produce errors then the Digital info will be corrupted. If the built-in error correction can't recover the error you will get a No Signal error or something similar.

There won't be a halfway, like a blurry pic or a less colourful pic. In digital world it's all or nothing.

For Analog it's different. The quality of the image itself is dependent on the signal. So the better the quality of the signal the better the image.

This post has been edited by Ngto: Oct 29 2007, 07:09 PM
Ngto
post Oct 31 2007, 10:25 AM

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QUOTE(Leolabs @ Oct 31 2007, 09:45 AM)
My point is there will be differences between cheap and expensive cables,no matter they are for digital or analog.

The main point is whether the differences are SIGNIFICANT or so MINOR,which can be considered as NELIGIBLE.

Cuz there is no such thing as 'NO DIFFERENT' when a signal pass through a cable,but just 'BIG DIFFERENT' or 'SO SMALL DIFFERENT'.
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No one is doubing there is a difference in quality of signal using different cables.

But Like I have mentioned so many times, in Digital data the quality of the signal (or lack of it) won't cause a dimmer picture or a blurry pic etc. It will just cause a complete corruption of data resulting in errors.

Do you know that each pixel is represented by a series of 10001....etc. If the poor quality of cable causes just one bit to be interpreted as a 0 instead of 1 it will mean a completely different thing than the original. Example let's say 100001 is wronlgy interpreted as 000001. It will become nonsense data, nothing related to the original data.

If , assuming there is no error correction for the sake of argument, then the screen will probably just be filled with random coloured pixels or square blocks that has nothing to do with the original picture in the first place. There won't be a halfway.

So coming back to digital data, if a poor quality cable can still interprete 10001 as 10001 without errors, then the data will be exactly the same as a Super Duper cable which also interpretes 10001 as 10001.

So the rule of digital data is, even if different quality cables result in diff signal strength, the 10001 carried by a weak cable is still the same 10001 carried by a strong cable (provided there is no error).

This post has been edited by Ngto: Oct 31 2007, 10:43 AM
Ngto
post Oct 31 2007, 09:11 PM

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Ya loh. Just only explained above, and immediately the next post after mine still ask about the difference in HDMI cables ... doh.gif

This post has been edited by Ngto: Oct 31 2007, 09:15 PM
Ngto
post Nov 1 2007, 09:59 AM

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QUOTE(sunauto @ Nov 1 2007, 04:29 AM)
I guess this is not the proper way to compare HDMI cables because most of you feel that they're the same whether it is a Cap Ayam brand or a branded one. Certain brands like Monster Cable for example has HDMI cables with a length of 12 metres and above and it can still output 1080p signals with no problems but try using a Cap Ayam brand, you'll notice that there's nothing on the screen. There are many cheap Made In China HDMI cables costing only RM50 for a 7 metre length but what most people didn't realise is that such cables can't carry HD resolutions at this length, it works fine with 480p but not with 720p. When you manage to get one, then you'll know where branded HDMI cables will shine.

Next, if you know, uncompressed audio is transmitted via HDMI and we're talking about a very large bandwidth involved here so that the signal strength must be strong and stable, the resistance in the cable must be kept to a minimum. No two HDMI cables carry the same bandwidth as they're made with different materials and if you're using them merely for an upscaling dvd player or video game consoles, you won't notice any difference until you're passing uncompressed audio to those next-gen amps which are already out in the market now.

Most people think that as long as it's digital, it doesn't matter that much but for the trained ears, you can detect the difference. It's true even for coaxial and optical cables too, better ones do make a difference but if you're having a budget setup, then it's not feasible to get expensive cables as a poor source won't do any good even if you have high quality cables. Lets not argue about this, just suit your pocket, if you feel that it's not worth dumping extra $$$ on cables, then lets just move on.
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But we weren't talking about extreme length of cables. smile.gif

You have just reinforced what I have been saying. If the HDMI cable is too long you just don't get a signal that's all. There's no in between like a blur pic or a dull pic.

Most cap ayam brand even up to 5 meters can carry a signal without problem. So whether Cap Ayam or Expensive Cables there's no diffference.

As for Optical and Coaxial, I don't want to comment there because both are using different technologies. The peculiarities of the implementation of the signals and the conversion of the signals to analog might give rise to some differences. smile.gif


Added on November 1, 2007, 10:11 am
QUOTE(wKkaY @ Nov 1 2007, 07:54 AM)
Good idea. There's no point arguing with audiophile lunatics, especailly those who think that a RM900 1 meter power cord can perceivably influence a player's sound (notwithstanding that electricity is supplied with gimmick-free cabling from the nearest neighborhood TNB station kilometers away!).

Anyway, my take in this is that if a cheap cable works out for you, keep using it. The risk with buying a cheap cable is that you may have to buy a second cable if it turns out that it doesn't work (and thus spend more) or when your requirements increase. It has happened to me before when the 5m cable for hooking my DVI-D monitor to the computer in the closet didn't work past 800x600.
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Power chords has nothing to do with what we were discussing. We were discussing digital HDMI signals on different quality cables. smile.gif

If I buy a cheap RM30/- HDMI cable and it loses signal after 1 year, I just buy another one.

I still save tons of money rather than buying an expensive one which does the same thing smile.gif

Cheap HDMI cables = If it works, it works. No difference with Super Duper Cable.

Cheap HDMI cables = If it doesn't work, just loss of signal that's all (Image won't dim or blur). Buy a better one. Still cheaper than buy an expensive one.

smile.gif Peace, Just friendly discussion.

This post has been edited by Ngto: Nov 1 2007, 10:14 AM
Ngto
post Nov 1 2007, 11:05 AM

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QUOTE(Drian @ Nov 1 2007, 10:50 AM)
Question:- where can I get cheap cap ayam dvi to hdmi cable? approx 3m will do.
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Try the computer shops like All IT Hypermart. They might have. But not too sure they are cap Ayam or not.

It's easier to find Cap Ayam HDMI Cable nowadays, but for DVI-HDMI converter cable not as common, so don't know much about Cap Ayam.


This post has been edited by Ngto: Nov 1 2007, 11:09 AM
Ngto
post Nov 1 2007, 08:49 PM

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Haha not that bad lah. biggrin.gif . Only if really extremely bad quality, or very long length, then no image.

If you are buying just 2 meter length cap ayam cable it shouldn't have any problem at all. Maybe can even last longer than your TV. Just don't damage the cable especially the connection ends that's all. If you buy longer than 3m then better get better quality ones.

Don't worry, even if no image after few years can buy another cheap one. By that time even very expensive ones already become cheap. So save a lot of money in long run. Price difference now between cheap cable and very expensive cable can be >5 times the price.

Most important is both Cheap and Expensive cable also give the same image quality.

Ngto
post Nov 3 2007, 02:38 AM

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Not really heated argument, don't take it the wrong way smile.gif . Just that some of us are expressing different opinions that's all.

When testing it need to be done on same display using same player and same input. That's because different inputs can have different memory settings. One can even adjust one HDMI input to make cap ayam look better than an Expensive cable on another HDMI input on the same panel. You never know the tricks used.

The best is to ask someone to randomly connect the player to the same HDMI input using the Cap Ayam and the Expensive cable while your back is turned. Do it 5 to 10 times randomly without the person telling you which cable he is using. HE then notes down the sequence and you also notes down what your guess is.

Then compare whether you have got it 100% correct. If you have mixed results then all I can say is it's all in your mind smile.gif

I also realised I have dwelled to much on this topic. So I guess I have said all I have to say. Just realised that some people here might be selling these expensive cables, so don't want to affect their ricebowl with my comments smile.gif

This post has been edited by Ngto: Nov 3 2007, 02:40 AM
Ngto
post Nov 3 2007, 02:52 PM

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I agree with Sunauto that a RM25/- HDMI cable is really pushing it too far. I am not surprised that it has no signal for anything above 720P.

On the topic of HDMI ver 1.3 1080P, I myself wouldn't go for anything below RM100/- for a 2meter length cable. The Specs for V1.3 itself require better quality cables to carry the signal through.

I figure very soon we will see cables labeled as HDMI 1.3 compliant if not already so.
Ngto
post Nov 3 2007, 08:40 PM

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In short the LCD TV doesn't care what quality the HDMI cable is as long as it is good enough to carry all the data intact without errors.

Just like installing Windows XP using a low quality pirated disc and an original high quality disc. As long as the low quality pirated disc is error free you still get the same Windows XP. If the disc is really bad you just get a corrupted computer that hang that's all.

This post has been edited by Ngto: Nov 3 2007, 08:41 PM
Ngto
post Nov 4 2007, 12:51 PM

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QUOTE(sunauto @ Nov 4 2007, 03:38 AM)
If the Windows XP is an audio cd or if the multimedia contents are streamed off the disc, there will be a difference if it's pirated. I never buy pirated audio cds because of this but for movies, I got no choice lah, not all movies are released here locally.

Well, some people feels that spending money on cables are a waste of money but they can afford to buy a LCD / Plasma costing a few months of their salary. It's the same like some people that I know, can afford to buy a BMW but using cheapo Sime tyres. Their argument, the car can move enough lah.  doh.gif
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Let me clarify if you don't mind smile.gif

I was merely using WinXP example to illustrate how digital data arrives intact over different quality medium.

You example of Pirated disc contents (Audio CD/Movies) , is not related to our subject of discussion. That deals with the quality of the source data itself. We were discussing about the medium over which the data is transferrred i.e the HDMI cable.

You example of Audio CD is also interesting. We have been saying all along that Analog is different from digital (Unless you were referring to digital Audio.)

Your use of Cheap Sime tyres as an example is also interesting.

Let me ask you a question if you don't mind smile.gif If the cheap Sime tyres can perform exactly like a RM10,000/- set of tyres (EXACTLY in every way, not just "the car can move enough lah") , would you still buy the RM10,000/- tyres?

Hehe, I have a feeling you would still say yes. smile.gif

This post has been edited by Ngto: Nov 4 2007, 04:22 PM
Ngto
post Nov 6 2007, 09:43 AM

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Hehe , it's my fault also. I am really long winded, it's in my nature. biggrin.gif

I always seem to stir up people to respond. Next time I will really try not to click on this topic.

Sunauto knows I am really edgy regarding certain unresolved matters (not with him smile.gif ), so have to channel my frustrations somewhere.

This post has been edited by Ngto: Nov 6 2007, 09:46 AM
Ngto
post Jan 15 2008, 12:02 PM

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QUOTE(scotty @ Jan 15 2008, 11:50 AM)
is the such thing as version 1.3 hdmi cable?
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For the higher 1.3 bandwidth, it needs a better quality cable to carry the signal through, that's all. If your ordinary HDMI can do the job without signal loss, then it's means the quality is good enough. If it can't then just buy a better quality one smile.gif.



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