you're right about the "What can fans do" part. Blizzard fans are fortunate on SC2 because Blizzard practically went to the fans for ideas. Not so with Diablo 3, but still not many were complaining after seeing the second round of gameplay footage. But at least they responded to fan requests properly and didn't try to change things into something completely foreign. Beth on the other hand, all along the development progress was patronizing and condenscending towards the old fallout communities, especially they way they treated NMA and DnC like they are nothing more but yapping rats to be swatted away. Such disrespect towards the oldest fan community and they had the balls to say that they designed FO3 with the old crowd in mind!

You see, sometimes it boils down to perception. Had Beth spent more time working with NMA and DnC in the process, or even give official invites to these two communities to previews, reviews and even integrate some of them into playtesting and feedback, the whole old fanbase would be appeased and more receptive to FO3 compared to now. And they really had nothing to lose - many in NMA were bitter that NMA were consistently used as a strawman in the beth forums like they were the loud minority, when in fact they represent some of the oldest and most loyal fans of the franchise, and was even a great catalyst for the fallout modding community.

Someone can cry just because of that

Oh well sometimes changes has to be made.It's for the best (for the company that is) because mainly,money is everything as you said earlier.They can't just depend on small quantity of loyal fans to get back thier money that they spend lotsa on the development alone.

What I said maybe abit too obvious but yeah just to remind you what's all about at the first place.Just hope that something can be done to this (fallout 3) game.Modders,we're counting on you

character creation is like oblivion. u had to go thru ur childhood, buildin ur stat n skill etc...... just like oblivion, when u meet the king n escaped from prison. but in FO3, out of vault. annoyin especially the G.O.A.T. test, the tester ask u 1 question by 1, cant seem to skip that n had to wait for him to finished the question slowly b4 u could answer em.

its by far worse than temple of trial in FO2 when u can run all the way n done in 5 minutes. it gonna take u more than 20 minutes for all that trouble. ==
all i can suggest is save b4 u leave vault if u wan to replay em with different stat n tagged skill (like oblivion, b4 u exit the prison, it will prompt u wether u wanna keep ur stat or change em.)

oh, didnt know that. i just had a quick test drive n play for an hour or more b4 uninstalling it.
yet, getting all that trouble for character creation? why cant they do Fallout 1/2 way of character creation, u dun need ur father to ask wat ur gender n wats ur name. best one would be fallout1, done creatin character, n u get kick out of vault straight away.

but some G.O.A.T test answer is really amusing.
grandma give u gun to shoot someone.
i choose: can u give me minigun, so i dun have to worry bout missing my target.

n is FO3 gonna to be like how Oblivion are, ur enemy u meet par with ur lvl?

n is FO3 gonna to be like how Oblivion are, ur enemy u meet par with ur lvl?

edit: Advance power armor look cool, but seem unproportionate though
tactics' armor look more refine n proportion to be fit in. n FO3 armor i definately no-no. maybe some modding community will help.

it's better to take GOAT if you're a completionist, there's an achievement if you take it

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Added on November 1, 2008, 11:28 am

er, i met a mutant brute on level 3, and he put bullet holes on me

Truthfully, like I've always maintained, Beth doing Fallout is new technologies isn't the biggest gripe most oldtime fallout fans have. The problem with Beth is they are PR machines first and game developers second. The change from isometric to FPS is painful, but could be palatable if Beth had credible and excellent writers. Dialogues especially were the weakest link in TES series since god knows when. The plot have degenerated into some Hollywood esque "sacrifice this sacrifice that" piece of crap, and that's the biggest problem most fans have.

Yes they might have retained their Oblivion fans and many new comers who have never played the older series before, but they'll have a hard time persuading fallout fans from enjoying the new one especially since the trademark black humor and clever writing in the predecessors are now gone, replaced with 11 year old quality dramatic scripts poorly stitched together with an over abundance of profanities and tough-guy talk that fails to capture the atmosphere.

you're right about the "What can fans do" part. Blizzard fans are fortunate on SC2 because Blizzard practically went to the fans for ideas. Not so with Diablo 3, but still not many were complaining after seeing the second round of gameplay footage. But at least they responded to fan requests properly and didn't try to change things into something completely foreign. Beth on the other hand, all along the development progress was patronizing and condenscending towards the old fallout communities, especially they way they treated NMA and DnC like they are nothing more but yapping rats to be swatted away. Such disrespect towards the oldest fan community and they had the balls to say that they designed FO3 with the old crowd in mind!

You see, sometimes it boils down to perception. Had Beth spent more time working with NMA and DnC in the process, or even give official invites to these two communities to previews, reviews and even integrate some of them into playtesting and feedback, the whole old fanbase would be appeased and more receptive to FO3 compared to now. And they really had nothing to lose - many in NMA were bitter that NMA were consistently used as a strawman in the beth forums like they were the loud minority, when in fact they represent some of the oldest and most loyal fans of the franchise, and was even a great catalyst for the fallout modding community.

Sigh. I better stop here.

they are good when they make morrowind last time.I still playing that darn game over and over again

2 hours of gameplay experience as below (SPOILER ALERT) (after borrowing it from a rich ******* who orders everything online):
1. Skills. Gone are first aid and doctor, replace by Medicine. So you can now heal crippled arm/leg with STIMPACK. 
Speech is pretty much useless since the game's dialog is uninspiring and lack of creativity to read. Perhaps the most shocking skill is repair, which in previous FO game only works on certain place. In FO3 you have to maintain your weapon and armor, like System Shock series.

2. Perks. Judging from the selection of choice, 60% of the perks are gear toward for a combat-type character.   

3. Encounter. Imagine the shock of finding missile launcher at level 3...

4. Unkillable NPC! They DO exist in the game.

5. Annoying Intro. Seriously, Bethesda's trademark of lengthy character creation is a pain-in-the-arse but the combat is twitch based. Ironically, in previous Fallout game all you have is a brown paper (simulated) loaded with character details and customization with short intro but complex combat mechanic.

6. Spoon fed everything. In FO3 you are flooded with many information when trying to do something. Say when lockpicking a door, the game will tell you you need x amount of lockpick skill percentage to do it. Rather than letting you try it straight away. Todd and his gang should take a class of Design 101.

7. VAT is a joke. For the action sequence. Once you pick your target, the camera switch to action shot demonstrating the effect. It's fun to watch first time but after that it's getting annoying. When encounter an enemy I just run backward and shoot, just like every FPS game.
During my attempt of escaping Vault 101, I killed every NPC in there except for one(Unkillable NPC!) with ease and the game is set in VERY HARD mode.   

8. FO3 should be rename to Fallout Tactics 2. There are numerous edible items in the game. From bloatfly meat to Squirrel meat!
Fallout 3 is Oblivion with guns

Good to hear that coz i LIKE oblivion!!!! 

I'm tempted to use my Hellgate London vs. Diablo 3 argument. But I won't.