he could've sold for 2-4k gold, regardless. and use those gold and get a much MUCH better weapon

And what weapon would you suggest? Only those BoP craftables and Raid weapons are at that standard. I use The Decapitator and Arena Offhand axe for the stats

I do no see much difference between rogue and shaman in using that dagger except for the MH/OH thing probably

You could say the same for yourself. Save the money and buy some other epics or consumables for raids since every rogue loves to compare their DPS with every other classes.

Btw do the night blade debuff stacks in PvE? I have not yet to seen someone use it in raid. Rogues i know prefer to dual wield Prince dagger and Searing Sunblade/Gladiator Shiv because of stamina bonus

your argument is very much invalid as we all know daggers have a generic lower dps, lower min-max, lower atk power speed mod. as ive always said, even ROGUES wouldnt use it if it werent for abilities such as ambush/backstab/mutilates.

and you argued that it can be said the same for rogues? no you are very wrong in this. this is basically one of, if not the BEST dagger in game, even better than the gladiator's shanker on dps comparison, mathematical charts run, LIVE statistical dps recording run. the ONLY thing that *MAY* be comparable to it is lady vashj's dagger... tell me, how many guilds in the world have that snake down? where this dagger is boe, so long you have the gold, and its on the AH/trade channel, you can get it.

i MYSELF is using it, it boosted by dps around 50-100++ and on shade of aran my dps went up close to around 800... that will not happen without the night blade. if you want to know, yes the debuff stacks with sunder armor or expose armor. and again, stamina is not a primary stat in pve especially for a dps class. so long you have enough stamina to survive things thrown at you, its better off you invest more in fullfilling your role better.

and again, there is also combat mutilate builds, they prefer heavy daggers offhand, so weapons such as the gladiator's shiv or searing sunblade is useless. if you wanna be ignorant and argue that combat daggers is the only raiding build, you're only gonna make yourself look stupid.

=edit=
a thing to note though, next patch its getting a proc rate nerf and imo a nerf is needed because a boe being on par if not better than the end game raiding or arena weapon is really, REALLY rediculous. totally distrupts the sense of achievement in the game and general itemization. (hence why they also buffing raiding level 2 and tier6 in general because spending effort in instances like SSC or the eye while only having sidegrades or even LOLDOWNGRADES isnt what i call fun.)

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Apr 24 2007, 09:45 AM

Sorry if i sound arrogant/ignorant but what i'm trying to tell you is that it is a good weapon for enha shamans too because as far as i know shaman out dps every other class atm with their WF bug as long as they are geared correctly. Dont simply assume others are stupid because of your assumption.I'm just trying to say if it goes to an enha shaman it isnt wasted. I do not know much about your rogue builds.

Of course it would be more suited for a rogue since its a dagger but you mentioned he could get a MUCH better weapon instead. If that certain enha shaman doesnt raid KZ cause enha shamans arent really wanted in KZ then what other weapons can he go for if he wasnt a weaponsmith?

and what ive been trying to point through that thick skull is that it isnt a good shaman weapon, yes, EVEN enhancement shamans.

a good portion of enh sham dmg also rely on spell dmg, night bane's armor proc would not help on that regard, and thats considering you can maintain the x3 proc w/o permanent slice n dice and occassional haste. flurry is not gonna cut it. unless perhaps you can get ~40-50% crit.

thottbot.com/allakhazam.com is your friend.
things like:
http://www.thottbot.com/i28392
or if you really want a dagger so bad...
http://www.thottbot.com/i28416

and thats just random 5man bluebies.

by far out pace tnb. its only this good for rogues due to the nature of their pure physical dmg, ultilization of daggers, and they can permanently maintain slice and dice.


ill just lol silently lolz

well, there are alternative BOE epic weapons that can be crafted like runic hammer(if he insist on DW), felsteel reaper and etc ( on thottbot) would be better for an enhancement shaman. how much better, well, depends on the individual. an enhancement shaman trying to maximize his own dps certainly wouldn't use a dagger.

if enhancement shamans aren't welcomed in karazhan, maybe he should've respeced to restoration first. i know the resto shaman in my guild got a gorehowl from prince cos the warrior has it already.(whereas malchazeen hasn't dropped in 3 months and i'm already exalted )

and lastly no lol, shamans( like druids before nerf) will/has never outdpsed me( a rogue 41/20 muti/combat for raid(pvp spec atm), 1580 ap 132 hit rating 25.71% crit unbuffed and no dagger specialization). not the best gear but mages(900+ bonus dmg, arcane+frost/fire ) in my guild(with t4 and tailoring epics) couldn't outdps me on prince even when i had to run back and forth cos of enfeeble+ amplify dmg and i raided with 800-1k ping.(guild already cleared karazhan and gruul)

anyway, the night blade on my server has been in the AH for a month now (down to 1k starting bid, 1.5k buyout from 2k/2.5k lol). i think everyone's expecting a big nerf.

This post has been edited by tetsu: Apr 24 2007, 08:34 PM

In high end guilds, enhancement shamans have been outpacing rogues in DPS. Well, that is until the Blizzard nerf to the 5/4 WF bypass for the 3s cooldown. Basically a shaman just needs to use SS everytime the cooldown is up, whereas combat rogues have to maintain a strict rotation of skill use to maximze the DPS.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.h...=96160201&sid=1


hmmm?

Thanks for the reply. However, Enha shamans are the highest DPS class currently because of their WF bug. If the fight doesnt require them to run around/spot heal they could out DPS other classes.

Before i started to raid Kara, i've group with this rogue named Euphea you can check him out in armory and his guild is the horde guild with fastest progression. In heroic SP i could out DPS him even with HWL 70 weapons if i wanted but then out DPSing is stupid because that isnt a shaman real role

Btw, Enha shamans rely very little on the spells for DPS. They could hit for 5k a second and another 5k in the next 5 seconds time period which is why they are the top DPS. Its largely based on luck. They rely on physical damage most of the time which is why i thought Night Blade would be nice. I'm just saying only...havent try it out myself

At Prince fights i need back and in with my rogue friend but still managed to compete with ranged DPS. This again is largely based on luck whether i can quad proc WF on Prince before i get enfeebled again

I know on Alliance side Shamans are welcomed to DPS but it will change after the patch when they get nerfed hence thats why i'm resto now. Pure DPS class will rule the dps charts once more. Enha shamans are an easy class in PvE imo because we only spam SS and save our shocks when needed

i see smartie man here... and yea i want malchazeen myself too... why? ITS THE SAME GRAPHIC AS MY TNB <3 <3

and double high five on combat mut dee pee ess

i have more hit raiting but less ap/crit though, trying to gear up to at least 20% hit since my main dmg source is my whites anyways.

and no, the nerf isnt THAT huge.

sets84: havent learn the skill reading yet? read my starting post in this thread, and the 2nd post on the thread you posted to share with all of us. way to make yourself look stupid. seriously, stop posting shits that bite you in the ass around.

nope? i didnt say anything yet fag... did i say anything? i jsut pasted a topic link about the nerf of the night blade. why get pissy all of a sudden... that's so unlike you eh, mr oh-so-great.

whos the one gettin pissy and calling names right here?

and ill take your last part as a compliment, ty

And people say females are emos and the drama queens....

good one...

When men get passionate, it's a hormone problem, just like females. Haha!

Although, when it comes to a question of flat out DPS in raid encounters, I do wonder whether it makes any point to argue flat out on the most DPSer when DPS players are always asked to watch the threatmeter. If their threat is higher than the MT/OT, they're required to stop DPSing, resulting in lower DPS output, hence lower on the DPS meter.

Or is it that to be a great DPSer, one has to teamed with a great tank and also spec for it as not to pull aggro? Unless we're just going flat out on PvP situations instead?

Too many scenarios ...

watched 300? rar

and threatmeter only makes it ez mode, so long you have a good tank, its not that big of a deal, at the same time, you can overtake the tank ANYWAYS especially with threatmeter because melees have a 10% buffer and rangers have additional 30%, basically, if tank have 100 threat, it takes a mage 130 threat to aggro, and when mage gets 101 threat he basically "overtook" the tank, but hes not gonna get aggro till it reaches 130.

to be a great dps'er, aside having a great tank, one basically have to be bold and brave to take risks, including the risk to wipe your group/raid. its not good at all, but risks are there for your choice to take and if you really wanna push the limits, risks will follow you, nothing is easy or safe anyways if ur pushing for more.

and no, theres no such spec as a low aggro dps spec, if there even is such spec, ur gonna be gimped on the dps charts and you're defeating the purpose of being a top dps'er.

rogues have the best advantage in regards to threat, having a permanent passive 29% threat reduction attached to the class, and vanish and of course lolfeint.

Rouges

mmmmmm dirty thoughts already? be...hind?!?!?!?!

Actually, nope. Perhaps one day.

Only reason I brought up threat is when there's a lot of debate between the different classes about being the highest on the DPS meter. I'm not so convinced that the examples given by people here in this thread are comparable enough when the basis of the different players would be different.

Because of aggro management required by all raid members, the DPS classes may not be showing their "true" dps potential. Also, one class player may not be talent-spec / geared up as the next one. It may work only for him and that particular raid mix.

As for daggers being wielded by other non-rogue classes, seems to be trigger buttons for all rogues. Now if we only have easy-to-debate forum posters of other classes, things might be more interesting to read. Rather than a rogue making dirty jokes.

You are incorrigible.
I rest my case.