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Technical LIVE after Death...Revival SPELL?, Revived=80 3ROD Again=9 R3RODR=7

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ionStorm
post May 12 2007, 06:19 PM

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I think if you guys wanna put the casing vertically, then you should make some slight modifications. Maybe attached a hook to the case and the heatsink to take some weight away from the mobo.
ionStorm
post May 21 2007, 03:07 PM

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Me kana 3ROD. Fixed already. Didn't use x-clamp replacement. Using "modified x-clamp". XD

ionStorm
post May 21 2007, 05:11 PM

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Technically that wouldn't work. I know since I tried without a clamp.

What I did was bend the clamp forward so that there would be less stress on the board, while still maintaining some pressure on the centre section. Since the main problem was board stress, I decided that this method would be sufficient.

Also one thing to note, if you wiggle the heatsink left and right before removing anything, you notice that it can't move, which means the pressure is really strong. I bent the clamp enough to release some pressure so that the heatsink could do a light wiggle therefore indicating that the pressure is not so great.

Cleaned up the gunk and applied Arctic Ceramique too. smile.gif



I wondered if this method would work for people who put their Xbox'es vertically...and I concluded that it would probably work too, since the clamp's main purpose is to create contact between the chip and heatsink. The heatsink itself is mounted to the outer case, so turning it vertical doesn't create a sag of any sort.


This post has been edited by ionStorm: May 21 2007, 05:13 PM
ionStorm
post May 21 2007, 05:37 PM

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That doesn't really spread out the pressure, I dunno...but as long as it works. My method doesn't even require anything extra. smile.gif

The key here is to reduce board flexing...that's the main problem because of the BGA. Notice that normal CPU's don't have this problem because they're still PGA...

This post has been edited by ionStorm: May 21 2007, 05:39 PM
ionStorm
post May 21 2007, 06:43 PM

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QUOTE(DjiNn @ May 21 2007, 06:20 PM)
The Big Question.

Why MS Using Such kind of Board when they know this problem will occur.. laugh.gif
*
Probably didn't know. The failure rate is high but not catastrophic...which probably indicates that the culprit is the clamp. It may have not been made to spec. The clamps are made by Foxconn...one of the more popular OEM manufacturers.
ionStorm
post May 21 2007, 06:47 PM

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These are the advantages of BGA...and I think it suits the purpose in the Xbox.

QUOTE
High density
The BGA is a solution to the problem of producing a miniature package for an integrated circuit with many hundreds of pins. Pin grid arrays and dual-in-line surface mount (SOIC) packages were being produced with more and more pins, and with decreasing spacing between the pins, but this was causing difficulties for the soldering process. As package pins got closer together, the danger of accidentally bridging adjacent pins with solder grew. BGAs do not have this problem, because the solder is factory-applied to the package in exactly the right amount.

Heat Conduction
A further advantage of BGA packages over packages with discrete leads (i.e. packages with legs) is the lower thermal resistance between the package and the PCB. This allows heat generated by the integrated circuit inside the package to flow more easily to the PCB, preventing the chip from overheating.

Low Inductance leads
The shorter an electrical conductor, the lower its inductance, a property which causes unwanted distortion of signals in high-speed electronic circuits. BGAs, with their very short distance between the package and the PCB, have low inductances and therefore have far superior electrical performance to leaded devices.

BGAs find some use in security-sensitive applications, especially where it is impossible to prevent physical access to the chip. For instance, a ROM chip with a BGA configuration is considerably more difficult to access than one in a DIP or TSOP layout. Tracing circuit paths to the BGA chip is limited by the contact points being obscured by the chip itself.

ionStorm
post May 21 2007, 06:50 PM

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QUOTE(DjiNn @ May 21 2007, 06:47 PM)
Foxconn are the Major of all motherboards man~.

but what makes me intrested that MS actually "don't know" these problem?

Such a Big Company (actually there are the Biggest in the world liaw) but don't know this problem ? doh.gif
*
Well...the fact that they're not major players in building this type of equipment does give them an excuse.

edit: Actually...I guess they have no excuse...since board flex is stated to be one of the problems of BGA's...



Added on May 21, 2007, 6:51 pm
QUOTE(cannavaro @ May 21 2007, 06:48 PM)
They didn't test their beta unit or whatever long enough I guess?
I mean it takes quite a while for the xclamp to give in..
*
For starters, 3ROD's on the average take about 3-6 months to manifest. Added to that, they may not have done testing under our climate.

This post has been edited by ionStorm: May 21 2007, 06:59 PM
ionStorm
post May 21 2007, 09:39 PM

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Its not surprising that it might die after the service...because essentially, the main problem is broken contacts. If there are too many broken contacts, then you may have to do reheating...failing which, a more drastic repair is required -- reballing.

Reballing is either very very expensive...or very very tedious...


Added on May 21, 2007, 9:40 pmOh...and I forgot to mention. I put my box thru some games. Works fine for the moment. We'll see how it goes further down the line. smile.gif


Added on May 21, 2007, 9:43 pmReballing kit here...

http://www.zeph.com/xbox_rework_repair_x-box_gpu_cpubga.htm

This post has been edited by ionStorm: May 21 2007, 09:44 PM
ionStorm
post May 24 2007, 01:43 AM

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Where are the error codes? O.o
ionStorm
post May 28 2007, 07:09 PM

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Its possible to get another 3ROD. I fixed it myself and my console still 3ROD'ed under certain circumstances.
ionStorm
post Jun 2 2007, 12:19 AM

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Been trying to fix this without completely using the right methods. ROD'ed for the third time. Think I might have to visit Virgil soon.
ionStorm
post Jun 5 2007, 08:36 AM

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Yup. The quality is that poor. So sorry that yours kena after such a short time...
ionStorm
post Jun 6 2007, 10:51 AM

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My machine is in a half-konk stage now. If I reflow it, I can use it for any amount of hours when I turn it on, but if I play say for 2 hours and the machine gets really warm, when I let it cooldown...the next time I turn it on, the machine will hang.

My hypothesis is that maybe my pressure on the thing is wrong, so expansion and contraction affects it heavily...or maybe too many pins broke already.

Anyways, now I play with my X360 open...so I can just reflow it whenever it decides to die. Already open my box...might as well make the best out of it I suppose.
ionStorm
post Jun 7 2007, 04:25 PM

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QUOTE(-= Virgil =- @ Jun 6 2007, 12:11 PM)
I think most probably is due to the pressure. Just tune it back to the "right" pressure and it will be fine... for some time tongue.gif Still, there is going to be immense stress on the chips if you keep doing it that way, and since the console acts up after hours of gaming proves that the chips are starting to get sensitive.

Just a mindless theory of mine though...
*
Maybe...but the box is already half dead...so doesn't matter if it really dies. Anyway, I think I got the right pressure. I'll know when I play the first run when I get home today. smile.gif

ionStorm
post Jun 7 2007, 09:21 PM

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Came back today to run the box a little bit. I'm more certain now I got the correct pressure. It works very fine now. happy.gif

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