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azriel
post May 24 2018, 08:01 AM

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PH to get 2 Cobra attack helicopters from Jordan: Duterte

By Azer Parrocha  May 22, 2018, 9:14 pm

MANILA -- The Philippines is set to receive two Cobra attack helicopters from the Kingdom of Jordan, President Rodrigo R. Duterte bared Tuesday.

“Jordan is giving us two Cobra helicopters. Those things that we cannot really afford,” Duterte said in his speech during the 120th anniversary of the Philippine Navy.

Duterte did not give further details about the two helicopters and admitted that he did not know if he was supposed to make a public announcement about it.

“I don’t know if I’m supposed to make it public and I really do not have a way of knowing whether it would make Esperon happy or not,” he added, referring to National Security Adviser Hermogenes Esperon Jr.

Esperon has yet to confirm Duterte’s announcement.

The President, however, said that Jordan faces the same problem like the Philippines, which is terrorism. (PNA)


http://www.pna.gov.ph/articles/1036101

MilitaryMadness
post May 24 2018, 08:28 AM

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QUOTE(atreyuangel @ May 24 2018, 04:25 AM)
it uses run flat tyres
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Which forces the vehicle to go slower and doesn't last very long. Not very ideal for combat conditions.

People think run flat tyres are the be-all/end-all for normal pneumatic tyre replacement, when actually they only allow you to get to the nearest repair shop without removing the tyre.

People go like "I don't mind being shot in the tyres, I got run-flats". laugh.gif



This post has been edited by MilitaryMadness: May 24 2018, 08:47 AM
atreyuangel
post May 24 2018, 01:28 PM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ May 24 2018, 08:28 AM)
Which forces the vehicle to go slower and doesn't last very long. Not very ideal for combat conditions.

People think run flat tyres are the be-all/end-all for normal pneumatic tyre replacement, when actually they only allow you to get to the nearest repair shop without removing the tyre.

People go like "I don't mind being shot in the tyres, I got run-flats". laugh.gif
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the tyre itself is armored at the first place
MilitaryMadness
post May 24 2018, 02:54 PM

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QUOTE(atreyuangel @ May 24 2018, 01:28 PM)
the tyre itself is armored at the first place
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There is no such thing. As long as the tyre is made of rubber and is a pneumatic one, it will puncture if penetrated. Even if you line the tyre with ballistic nylon or Kevlar, the shock of a direct bullet impact can significantly weaken the rubber and can even blow the tyre without even penetrating it. There are some tyres with built in cell systems that bleed liquid sealant to automatically seal a puncture, but that is more about damage control rather than proofing the tyre against projectiles in the first place. Not to mention this will be useless against the blast effect of mines or IEDs.

Best you could do to protect your tyres against gunfire is to have a steel plate installed over the rims that covers most of the tyre's sidewall, but even with this the tread area will still be vulnerable. Plus it will still do nothing against mines or IEDs.

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This post has been edited by MilitaryMadness: May 24 2018, 02:59 PM
DDG_Ross
post May 24 2018, 04:16 PM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ May 24 2018, 08:28 AM)
Which forces the vehicle to go slower and doesn't last very long. Not very ideal for combat conditions.

People think run flat tyres are the be-all/end-all for normal pneumatic tyre replacement, when actually they only allow you to get to the nearest repair shop without removing the tyre.

People go like "I don't mind being shot in the tyres, I got run-flats". laugh.gif
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at least they got alternative, still can run away with oni tayar kempis after being kaboom-ed
if tracked thread got kaboom-ed out yer literally fucked right then and there biggrin.gif
Fat & Fluffy
post May 24 2018, 04:26 PM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ May 24 2018, 04:54 PM)
There is no such thing. As long as the tyre is made of rubber and is a pneumatic one, it will puncture if penetrated. Even if you line the tyre with ballistic nylon or Kevlar, the shock of a direct bullet impact can significantly weaken the rubber and can even blow the tyre without even penetrating it. There are some tyres with built in cell systems that bleed liquid sealant to automatically seal a puncture, but that is more about damage control rather than proofing the tyre against projectiles in the first place. Not to mention this will be useless against the blast effect of mines or IEDs.

Best you could do to protect your tyres against gunfire is to have a steel plate installed over the rims that covers most of the tyre's sidewall, but even with this the tread area will still be vulnerable. Plus it will still do nothing against mines or IEDs.

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like this one?

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MilitaryMadness
post May 24 2018, 04:31 PM

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QUOTE(DDG_Ross @ May 24 2018, 04:16 PM)
at least they got alternative, still can run away with oni tayar kempis after being kaboom-ed
if tracked thread got kaboom-ed out yer literally fucked right then and there  biggrin.gif
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I find wheeled military vehicles are not as versatile as tracked ones though. For one they are mostly restricted to roads or hard paths and not so good going off-road. This makes them more prone to ambushes and mines/IEDs at those places.

For rear-area/internal security work wheeled AFVs are still ok, but for conventional battles right at the front line they are more vulnerable.


MilitaryMadness
post May 24 2018, 04:33 PM

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QUOTE(Fat & Fluffy @ May 24 2018, 04:26 PM)
like this one?

user posted image
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This type doesn't use air-filled pneumatic tyre, but still physically vulnerable as normal tyres nonetheless.

bereev
post May 24 2018, 04:51 PM

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QUOTE(yinchet @ May 20 2018, 08:40 PM)
Everything is okay, it is not a big operation and my father can go home tomorrow.
but the operation fees is darn expensive. cry.gif  cry.gif  cry.gif
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hope ur father get well soon
SUSKLboy92
post May 24 2018, 05:16 PM

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atreyuangel
post May 24 2018, 08:34 PM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ May 24 2018, 02:54 PM)
There is no such thing. As long as the tyre is made of rubber and is a pneumatic one, it will puncture if penetrated. Even if you line the tyre with ballistic nylon or Kevlar, the shock of a direct bullet impact can significantly weaken the rubber and can even blow the tyre without even penetrating it. There are some tyres with built in cell systems that bleed liquid sealant to automatically seal a puncture, but that is more about damage control rather than proofing the tyre against projectiles in the first place. Not to mention this will be useless against the blast effect of mines or IEDs.

Best you could do to protect your tyres against gunfire is to have a steel plate installed over the rims that covers most of the tyre's sidewall, but even with this the tread area will still be vulnerable. Plus it will still do nothing against mines or IEDs.

user posted image
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here is a food for thought
IED and mines are not targeted to tyres but the vehicles as a whole

Armored tires are protection to make sure that the vehicles are still able to move away from the killzone or the ambush long enough to evade, to safe area or at least until aid comes

when I said an "armored tires" what comes into your mind dude?
a tires that can withstand everything?

but hey

this MRAP tires is still looking good laugh.gif

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heavyduty
post May 24 2018, 10:01 PM

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QUOTE(atreyuangel @ May 24 2018, 08:34 PM)
here is a food for thought
IED and mines are not targeted to tyres but the vehicles as a whole

Armored tires are protection to make sure that the vehicles are still able to move away from the killzone or the ambush long enough to evade, to safe area or at least until aid comes

when I said an "armored tires" what comes into your mind dude?
a tires that can withstand everything?

but hey

this MRAP tires is still looking good  laugh.gif

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Tayar MRAP special, dia macam ada steel weave kat dalam.berat gila

Tayar pancit, balik la sekejap tukar.its not a big deal.the minor risk of having a flat tyre is negated by the ability to go 100 km/hr on most roads
patt_sue
post May 24 2018, 11:17 PM

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I read that Sabah may allow the usage of the pump boat again... I don't think this is a good move

https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2018...mp-boats-again/
atreyuangel
post May 25 2018, 12:42 AM

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QUOTE(heavyduty @ May 24 2018, 10:01 PM)
Tayar MRAP special, dia macam ada steel weave kat dalam.berat gila

Tayar pancit, balik la sekejap tukar.its not a big deal.the minor risk of having a flat tyre is negated by the ability to go 100 km/hr on most roads
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hey andi
MilitaryMadness
post May 25 2018, 07:57 AM

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QUOTE(atreyuangel @ May 24 2018, 08:34 PM)
here is a food for thought
IED and mines are not targeted to tyres but the vehicles as a whole

Armored tires are protection to make sure that the vehicles are still able to move away from the killzone or the ambush long enough to evade, to safe area or at least until aid comes
*
You're referring to manually detonated IEDs or mines that needs a triggerman close by to choose his target. That's how they can time the explosion to target the vehicle itself.

Most times mines/IEDs use a pressure detonator triggered by vehicles tyres/tracks pressing down on them. Heck, even a special anti-tank mine isn't needed to disable a vehicle: anti-personnel mines has enough explosive power to shred any tyre to bits, run-flats or not.

Also, anyone with a sound understanding of military tactics would try to destroy/disable the patrol's lead vehicle (and the last one, if possible) first, to create a blockade for other vehicles to prevent them from moving anywhere.

Plus, isn't the usual response to an ambush is to counter-attack and charge the ambush itself? Most (competent) commanders would position secondary ambush teams or have already planted more mines/IEDs further down the road from the killzone just in case the target tries to escape. So by running away instead of charging the ambush, you're liable to get into more trouble.

This post has been edited by MilitaryMadness: May 25 2018, 08:04 AM
Strike
post May 25 2018, 10:49 AM

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one question: can wheeled 6x6 or 8x8 still can move or steer if one of front tyres completely gone?
Skidd Chung
post May 25 2018, 11:19 AM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ May 25 2018, 07:57 AM)

Plus, isn't the usual response to an ambush is to counter-attack and charge the ambush itself? Most (competent) commanders would position secondary ambush teams or have already planted more mines/IEDs further down the road from the killzone just in case the target tries to escape. So by running away instead of charging the ambush, you're liable to get into more trouble.
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Forgive my lack of military knowledge, but I always thought the best action after an initial ambush attack is to get out of the kill-zone. I mean being ambushed basically means you were caught by surprise by an unknown number of enemies. Isn't charging in kind of suicidal?
MilitaryMadness
post May 25 2018, 12:33 PM

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QUOTE(Skidd Chung @ May 25 2018, 11:19 AM)
Forgive my lack of military knowledge, but I always thought the best action after an initial ambush attack is to get out of the kill-zone. I mean being ambushed basically means you were caught by surprise by an unknown number of enemies. Isn't charging in kind of suicidal?
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People do ambushes usually because they cannot take on an enemy directly for some reason. Most of the time if the target seems strong enough to resist the ambush, for example if the patrol has a lot of armored vehicles or it has a UAV/air unit screening it, the ambusher will cancel the ambush altogether and let everyone pass.

However, a well-planned ambush executed correctly would ideally wipe out a small enemy patrol within seconds. If the ambush takes too long, most of the time the ambusher will withdraw the ambush to prevent the enemy from using the delay for counter-attacking or getting assistance from nearby units. Getting into extended firefights and close-range engagements will be the last thing an ambusher will want. It's usually either kill everyone in the first seconds of the ambush or withdraw immediately when you clearly can't accomplish that. That's why most army doctrines say you must counter-attack immediately towards the suspected ambusher. Most of the time this will be enough to scatter any ambushers or at least eliminate the element of surprise & concealment the ambusher had.

Staying put in the killzone and returning fire from there is the most dangerous thing you can do in an ambush, the ambusher may have multiple fields of fire or already marked the entire kill zone for heavy weapons like mortars. Running away isn't such a good option either as there might be multiple secondary ambush points further along the road or the ambusher may have positioned small units to surround the ambush point and pursue anyone who escaped the killzone. In the case of an ambush of a patrol vehicles, the ambusher will try to destroy/disable the first and last vehicles in the column, creating a roadblock to prevent the escape of vehicles in the center anyway.

Plus, the ambusher will usually pick ambush points where the terrain or physical features can help prevent or make it harder for the enemy to escape.



Disclaimer: Different situations may require different responses.

This post has been edited by MilitaryMadness: May 25 2018, 12:40 PM
MilitaryMadness
post May 25 2018, 01:06 PM

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QUOTE(Strike @ May 25 2018, 10:49 AM)
one question: can wheeled 6x6 or 8x8 still can move or steer if one of front tyres completely gone?
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Can. 6x6 or 8x8 wheeled APCs weight are supported enough by multiple tyres. Even if you blow a tyre, you will still be upright and balanced (two tyres or more then it wont la). Also these 8x8 types are usually steered by the four front tyres instead of two.

But if a 6x6 still has one working front tyre, I can't see why it wouldn't still move or steer.

azriel
post May 25 2018, 01:09 PM

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Philippines to receive Cobra helos from Jordan

Gareth Jennings, London - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
24 May 2018

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While Jordan is upgrading and retaining 12 Cobras for its own requirements, it is donating others to foreign air arms. The Philippine president has announced that his country is to receive two. Source: IHS Markit/Patrick Allen

The Philippines is to receive two Bell AH-1 Cobra attack helicopters donated from Jordan, national media reported on 22 May.

The procurement was announced by Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte, but no further details were provided.

Jordan currently fields 27 AH-1E/F Cobra helicopters, including 16 that in 2014 were donated to the country by Israel. Of these 27, 12 (presumably the donated Israeli platforms) are being upgraded for continued use by the Royal Jordanian Air Force. Of the remaining 15 Cobras, at least three are known to have been donated to Kenya, with two now to be transferred to the Philippines.

Although a relatively old helicopter by today's standards, the 1970s-era AH-1E/F Cobra is still a highly potent attack platform. Designed specifically for the ground-attack role, it is equipped with a chin-mounted three-barreled M197 20 mm Gatling gun, and carries unguided 70 mm rockets or BGM-71A tube-launched, optically tracked, wire-guided (TOW) air-to-surface missiles, and the two crew members sit in an armoured cockpit.

Having already proved itself on battlefields around the world, including throughout the Middle East, the Cobra should provide a welcome boost to the Philippines’ combat capabilities.


http://www.janes.com/article/80285/philipp...los-from-jordan

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