Normally in order to have a good representation for HDR you need ~20000 : 1 (Resulting in peak luminance 1000 - 0.05 nits min black luminance) with local dimming on, and this is almost a decade old requirement for LCD based.

These days it should be higher like 50000 : 1, 100000 : 1 (like the bravia 7, but obviously premium price has to be paid) for LCD or QLED based.

But then if you are happy with it, then just enjoy!

7.4k, and you get another rm740 e-cashback credit to use at their website. So not so bad, I’m sure price will drop even more when the 2025 models are out.

But for immersiveness I would still probably go for a projector for 100”+ size. More cost efficient and better longevity than OLED 😅

begger cant be chooser.
in kuching there is a 6 month queue for hisense tv.

That solves my poor interpretation of backlight issue! Harvey Norman testing the 75", it didnt have any uneven light splashes. Weird. The Google apps respond was fast and smooth.

It is true that from Dec 2024 until mid Feb 2025 there were issues with the Q6N stocks. I only receive my replacement in the end of Feb 2025.

This post has been edited by Jenn77: Mar 27 2025, 01:42 PM

sony one i heard from salesperson at harvey norman, the new models will be out in april.

i disagree...

projector in terms of colour, picture quality etc. can never beat TV especially OLED.

nowadays i go to cinema to see movies, i also cannot accept anymore. The projected movie is so 'washed out' and greyish... totally not at the same level comparing to my sony OLED tv...

nowadays i prefer to watch movies at home more...

When it comes to immersion, size plays a more significant role than PQ. Obviously Projector PQ won't be anywhere as good as OLED, but can you find any OLED TV bigger than 100"?
Even the biggest LG OLED at 97" costs RM120k+. That's why most hardcore HT enthusiasts use Projector for their AV setup. Even when it comes to 3D, I find projectors better suited than a small OLED TV

not really. last time size may be the greatest part to make immersion. but now with OLED, if u give me a choice i always choose a smaller OLED vs bigger LED tv vs projector.

even my sony OLED is only 55-inch, i am sitting about 1.7m from my sofa to the TV, it is immersive enough for me than seeing the same movie in cinema with much much bigger screen.

not to mention that my marshall acton 3 speakers that paired with the TV gives me decent sound effects while watching the movie also.

of course the bigger the OLED the better also. but to me i am satisfied with what i have.

Once you go OLED you can't go back...

really.... i can never buy non OLED TV from now on unless there is something really better than OLED is out..

i cannot even go cinema to see movies now also... it is a completely downgrade.

I prefer to have both, 120-150" projector with full 7.1.2 / 9.1.2 Atmos setup in a soundproofed room & OLED with soundbar in my bedroom.
The feeling & immersion you get from a Home Cinema Projector is totally different from a smaller 65-77" OLED TV. It feels like you are at the scene, I don't get that feeling with a small sized TV. If you watch 3D this is especially noticeable.

A comparison in Audio would be like Projector -> Live at a Symphony Orchestra vs OLED -> Headphones with dedicated DAC/Amp for precision & clarity. In live venues, you don't get the clarity & precision but you can feel the atmosphere resonating in your bones and heart. While dedicated audiophile headphones/equipment, you get a different feeling. The clarity, emotions of the sound resonates in your heart.

of course if looking for the best, the sky is the limit.

i am contented with what i have for now though...

Objectively false .

You can say that as your opinion. But no that isn't true.

Our eyes determine how realistic, how much depth something has via the Dynamic range , which is basically contrast ratio and used to measure how capable every screen is.
A massive screen with poor resolution, low contrast, and bad color accuracy won’t feel immersive, whereas a smaller screen with high resolution, deep blacks, and good HDR can pull you in much more effectively.

(Also the fact that you can sit closer to the screen so it envelops your field of vision more effectively)


Of course the gamechanger being, HDR. A testament on how much the display tech has improved. 2 decades ago, a larger screen means it can better provide immersion. But the innovation of HDR has completely changed the landscape.

I had my 77 " QD OLED seated in a room with controlled ambient light. Whenever a char shows up from a dark background, or multiple stars against a galaxy backdrop , there's a pseudo 3D effect that looks like a portal has just opened up from another reality. You have to witness the floating illusion to understand. Particularly true for QD OLED as they perform impeccably near black.


In an Ideal world, you will want both. But if you are only given one, whichever screen that has higher Contrast ALWAYS wins. The human brains are smart. They don't perceive a piece of washed out cardboard as reality. Last time I check, the most advanced and pricey projector has still only manage to reach 300 cd/m2 +-. Its color saturation is 1/10 from an OLED screen. Sadly that's light years behind to be able to achieve any sort of HDR effect.

The closest thing you are able to achieve both are via Apple's VR Headset. But even then it still has lower contrast , lower perceived sharpness than OLED TVs***. DSCC has said that the microLED displays can UP TO deliver 5000 nits but a large volume of that is lost due to the lenses and the display driving method.



***A MicroLED lens like Apple's VR do naturally have higher pixel density (~3000 PPI ) against typical OLED TV (~70-100 depends on size). But since you are wearing it upclose and distortion of VR lens, 4k videos look far less pristine on VR headset than on the OLEDs . Sorry Apple fans , your VR headsets do not actually look better than a 2025 OLED TV, yet.

This post has been edited by Convael: Mar 29 2025, 11:08 PM

Obviously projectors won’t be able to compete with an OLED in terms of PQ, making that comparison itself is silly. Good projectors have good enough PQ to satisfy majority of the general public. Just do a general survey, majority will say size with decently good PQ > small size with best PQ for immersion.
Except for videophiles who will only focus on PQ, similar to audiophiles who nitpicks on details, clarity. They focus on the technicals more than the music/movie experience itself. Yet many will fail in blind tests when it comes to differentiating 24 bit vs 16 bit audio, or even 10 bit vs 12 bit video. There is only that much our eyes/ears can perceive for our brain to process.

And sitting closer to the screen to envelop your field of vision is so wrong especially when you have proper speaker placements for accurate sound staging.

You may have your opinion, but sorry I still stand by mine when I say that immersion = size matters. Growing up with Laser Discs and Projectors with 7.1 speakers, to LED and now OLED, I’ve lived and experience them long enough for me to not get caught up with newer tech hype that detracts my personal enjoyment. I’d still be more immerse in a 120” inch projector screen with a 1080p Blu-ray than a 65” inch OLED with a 4K Blu-ray.

https://www.techradar.com/opinion/i-traded-...y-to-trade-back

https://www.avforums.com/threads/why-projec...an-tvs.2348636/

A simple google search will also show that majority HT enthusiasts will pick projectors over OLED for immersion due to the size.

I agree. I am not an enthusiast in this area but even with small oiled tv of 55-inch with perfect picture quality, it bought me over watching in cinema with much bigger projected video now. 😁

And ever since I had used oled tv, I look at any non-oled tv, I can tell that it is not oled even looking at those high end mini-led tvs immediately at first glance. That’s why it is a one way train.

Of course the next to pursue a bigger size oled when my budget allows. Else the current oled tv still can satisfy me for now with no issue.

This post has been edited by westlife: Mar 30 2025, 09:27 AM

I don't think there are commercially available 12-bit OLED TVs yet (Not sure about some 12-bit phone brands in the market). The current reference grade displays like the Sony HX3110 or Flanders Scientific XMP650 (QD-OLED) are still with 10-bit color depth with peak luminance keeps increasing each iteration.

While I am not sure how a 12-bit HDR to 10-bit HDR would look like, I am sure I can tell a 8-bit SDR to 10-bit HDR video (A big step up 16.7 million colors to 1.07 billion colors, 12-bit is 68.7billion colors) which translate to a very smooth gradient to the color's representation, more "life like", again more noticeable in "4K HDR" videos, D65 calibrated display.

HDR is a different kind of immersive-ness, I think the more proper word would be to let you "submerge" into the "life-like" visual experience. Also, HDR is not a hype and certainly not a "newer tech hype", it is about expanding the range of luminance (contrast ratio) again to be more "life-like". The wider the range, the better the display would be able to finetune the colors and details. Once you experience an OLED TV hanged to the wall in a completely dark room (to the point you can't even see the border of the TV), and firework, starry night, bright sun floats/glares right in front of you, you probably wouldn't say the same about HDR.

I own OLED, QD-OLED, FALD LED, 700 nits Art OLED laptop (with overall Delta E <1) and some 1500 nits RGB OLED phone from a fruit company. I can tell you one thing for sure, the higher the brightness and contrast of the display, the better it is with HDR specular highlight "life-like" details and colors. It's actually those little steps up in technical that make the HDR videos more impactful. E.g. Between a 700 nits OLED and a 1000 nits OLED TVs, the higher brightness TV will always produce a more "correct" feel and colors and "depth" to a dark scene composition (Furnitures, lights, surroundings). This will also aid what postproduction/colorists in a movie to achieve their intended "feel and mood" of the movie/scene.

Don't want to get into the debate of which is being more immersive that is completely subjective, just trying to give my opinion on what HDR is. But I am sure you understand my point since you have projector, OLED TV and photography rig (pretty sure you already have a dark room/environment). I guess if you watch a lot of SDR 100 nits movies still, projector is perfectly fine.

*I am not an AV, videophile or video production guy or colorist or whatever you want to call by any means. I just like HDR movies and gaming as a hobby. Peace

HDR isn't really a new tech, it's been around since 1980-90s starting from cameras before making it's way to commercial TVs in the 2010s. But yes, HDR vs SDR is easier to differentiate. But try differentiating HDR10+ vs DV and you can see the results isn't as clear cut. Most good projectors supports HDR, but of course again you can't compare to OLED. In a darkroom at night, OLED can be too bright for some which makes it too uncomfortable and distracting from enjoying the movie. One of the reasons why Projector based screens does very well in "Cinema" setting environment. You don't get the glare.
Most of the movies i watch are HDR, and it is difficult to compare lumens to nits since their conversion comparison isn't easy like 1:1 or 1:3.426. But generally tone mapping is more important for projectors than nits when it comes to HDR. But i disagree though that higher brightness & HDR is more correct/life-like. Most of the time the colours/contrast & DR are over exaggerated to give the wow factor. Real life to me isn't as vivid & contrasty as what is shown.

That's correct and it would do a lot of HDR tone mapping for sure

Lower brightness Tv will also do tone mapping with a EOTF gradual roll off for specular details at peak luminance. Say for example the content is mastered at 1000 nits and the TV is only capable of 700 nits.

Link

Link 2

As for vivid or warm follow your correct presets for B4. If you use the correct presets like the filmmaker mode it should not look vivid, contrasty with soap opera effect, in fact most will find it slightly yellowish. Also, these days OLED TVs are very accurate in terms of color dE right out of the box, again if you use the correct presets.

*To give you another idea about color temp (I am sure you probably already know this), I like to set my tablet and phone for reading to almost 4-5K temp. Whenever I turn on my TV knowing it's at D65 and correct filmmaker mode, I will also feel a slight "vividness" because my eyes are adjusting back to D65 temp when in actual fact it's not vivid. Colder temp would be anything higher than D65.

This post has been edited by Kahlamx: Apr 1 2025, 12:57 PM

How is it silly when PQ is one of the biggest factors of immersion ?

We already have 150" MicroLEDs, a bunch of 98" MiniLEDs, how much bigger do you plan to watch on your projector screens ?

Another point to be noted here, movies gets progressively worse PQ as you are filling a bigger screen because they are only available in pristine 4k resources.
This degradation is worse on projectors because unlike TV , projector ubiquitously doesn't really do AI upscaling or enhancement, the perceived PQ clearly is falling behind and not just by a little bit, it is light years behind.


We have studies, done by notable brands and visual scientist that have proven this, regardless of whatever your random AV poster is saying.

1) Samsung Electronics in collaboration with Mindlab International now confirms that we react much more intensively to an Ultra HD TV picture and that the immersion is up to 38 percent stronger than with a Full HD picture.
here

2) A fairly recent study published in Presence: Teleoperators and Virtual Environments examined how field of view (FOV) and image resolution impact presence in virtual environments. Results indicated that higher resolution and wider FOV led to increased balance disturbance and subjective difficulty, implying a more immersive and engaging experience. here (in correlation with my previous post on the field of vision)

3) There are also multiple research and studies that emphasizes HDR has played a significant factor in an immersive viewing experience.
here


A lot of ppl saying the same thing don't mean they are right, they could be just less informed .

I also want to strengthen this argument by directly addressing your " decently good PQ > small size with best PQ for immersion. " . There is no " decently good PQ " on projector until you reach the very high end. (Even so , 300 nits with raised blacks is hardly what most enthusiast considered as good PQ ). If you can afford very high end projectors, chance is you can probably afford to order custom sizes from Manufacturer , in which case your points are moot.





You ran out of argument, that's why you are changing the topics again. Obviously audios do play another major part of immersion as well when it shakes your entire house. But we've never mention the audio aspects here, everything we discussed so far is related and only to the screen. Our initial arguement is this, projector PQ are light years behind any sort of modern flagship TV, on top of not able to achieve any sort of HDR effects . Since we considered PQ a significant part of an immersive experience , a 140 " Projector will not produce a more immersive experience than a 100 " TV with great PQ , doesn't even has to be OLEDs.

The sitting closer was not a solution , but a suggestion.


There's no hype here, only science, fact, maths involved. No one is saying size don't matter but we are not prioritizing it like we did 10 years ago before the existence of HDR. High Dynamic Range alone is the biggest innovation that ever happened to emissive screens since the transition from B&W to Colors .

I would hate to turn this into a TV shaming post, but in order to make my point it seems like I must do it again .


The B series are at this point, an abandoned child. With each and every year, it actually has gotten worse !
Look at this comparison, the B7 was released almost 10 years ago. LG has been cutting corners so much so they can sell the G series.

Comparing your 600 nits B4 (again, potentially worse than a decade old counterpart) to a 2025 OLED which peaks at 2500 nits ... I am sure you can see where the logic fails.






The first link is just a couple of random poster talking about ... things ? I am very sure I can find an exact opposite argument from the same forum with a quick search.
So yes, no real credential right there.

The second article is actually quite absurd as it illustrated a counter argument against yours.

The writer has a personal anecdote on swapping his 100 inches project for a 65 " OLED TV C3 because of his previous viewing habits.
He actually did acknowledged that his 65 C3 was performing flawlessly and superior under different room condition .

He has again mentioned these are his preference , his subjective bias.
He prefer to watch it on a 100" screen, despite getting no HDR, objectively worse PQ but that's his habits. No one can say that's wrong .

The price also doesn't match up as any enthuasiast projector should cost way more than a 65 " C3 , particularly the JVC DLA-NZ8 he briefly mentioned which retails at $16000 US Dollars. That's far more pricey than 83 " OLEDs. Could this be possibly hinting at a JVC sponsored article ? Who knows


Plus , that was before the fierce competition between LG and Samsung's OLEDs.
A 77" QD OLED can previously be bought for less than 10k in MY with discount sales , that makes the Picture Quality investment a lot more scalable than screen sizes alone.

This is different than you making previous claims based on a lot of things you don't know and don't understand. Particular the color bits part which I am not even going to address right now (I can write 50 pages on that topic alone) because of how conceptually wrong the premise is. But one thing for sure, he knows what hes talking about. You, on the other hand don't.

This post has been edited by Convael: Apr 3 2025, 10:42 AM

150" MicroLED? Even a 110" MicroLED already cost USD$150-200k, please give a more reasonable and rationale comparison. You are never going to find a cost effective price for a MicroLED/OLED above 100" for the general enthusiasts.
There are projectors that do AI upscaling, LPU9D, C2 Ultra. PQ projectors are definitely behind but light years behind is over exaggerated.
There are decently good projectors that costs RM10-20k, still much cheaper and accessible than a $150-200k MicroLED. But you need to experience them firsthand before passing judgement. It is easier to judge TVs in retail shops, not Projectors as they perform their best at a completely dark room. Do you even own and live with a projector? Or are you just writing based on what you read or see in retail shops/road shows?




Random AV poster? Go to any AV forums and post the same question. If 80/100 has the same conclusion, are you arrogantly going to dismiss all of them as just random AV poster? You yourself can be considered a random AV poster to others. And that was just a random link, there are dozens of similar topics from hundreds of people, not 'just a couple'.




Your abstract 'studies' does not even answer my argument on Projector(size) vs OLED(PQ) on immersiveness.
Obviously HDR is immersive, but please post your study that TV is more immersive than a Projector.



Again with the videophile numbers instead of actual practical experience/usage. You keep harbouring on nits and peak brightness.
Most movies mastered have a peak brightness of 1000 nits for certain scenes usually at a small area of the screen, but most of the film is sustained between 400-600 nits. OLED/MicroLED makers are hyping up too much on nits, marketing newer TVs at 4000 nits when it is redundant.

https://www.whathifi.com/features/super-bri...od-heavyweights



Changing the topic? Our main initial argument is on immersion with size & PQ being the sub category. Go back and read my initial posts




And in that regards, you are deflecting my argument. I did not change the topic, audio is also a sub category for immersion. So your solution of sitting closer shouldn't even be part of a suggestion.




And what was my counter argument? My argument has always been projector/size giving a more immersive experience than a TV. And that was his exact experience, what was your comprehension??
And where was it mentioned that he prefers 100" despite getting no HDR? I see that you keep jumping to conclusions and fixated on an argument of HDR/Higher PQ is more immersive than non HDR/lower PQ when that isn't even the argument in the 1st place.

You can't even comprehend what was the argument was in the first place, don't even talk about understanding anything.

And please, do enlighten us and write the 50 pages just on 10 colour bits vs 12 colour bits alone, that is if you even can. Try not to copy & paste while you're at it. Make sure it is 50 pages, not 49 or less.

This post has been edited by Lego Warfare: Apr 3 2025, 04:19 PM