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 The SSD Thread V6, Solid State Drive, Continued.

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Maxieos
post Aug 24 2017, 11:36 PM

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QUOTE(horns @ Aug 16 2017, 09:38 PM)
er it's better to check bios and other dependencies first. ssd runs on ahci or raid mode in sata operations. (most sata ssds require ahci mode to do firmware upgrades or maintenance) in terms of performance, it's better to use at least sata2. (sata1 is slow) of course you can still leverage on its high iops, but i'm not sure of its effective performance boost compared to sata3.

about bios compatibility, maybe the user manual for your dell model can help.

as for the intel ssd, the current one is 540s. from reviews its performance is bad in general. you should choose others tbh.
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Thanks , sorry for the late reply. I don't think there's an SSD bios.Hope you can help a hand here.
Dell inspiron year before 2010 , check it had ACHI.

What are the cheapest SSD year around yet reliable ? Samsung ? I remember last time intel 320 with 5 years warranty which really good.
Storage at lease 160GB.
Thanks again smile.gif
Maxieos
post Aug 26 2017, 11:44 PM

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QUOTE(sHawTY @ Aug 25 2017, 12:44 PM)
1. Done. Both my Gigabyte Z97X-Gaming G1 & ASUS X99-Pro has multiple PCI-e ports, tested all of them, still flickering
2. Done. Bought a new RX 550 just to test this matter, 100% new, not used unit, still flickering
3. Done. Done, bought a new premium DP cable, still flickering
4. Done. Done for both motherboards, still flickering

Still flickering away like there's no tomorrow laugh.gif

Nevermind, I'm just gonna wait until 31st October to strip out everything and install part by part
Also gonna try to run the system naked to see if the HAF XB Evo is the fault for this issue
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QUOTE(horns @ Aug 25 2017, 01:07 PM)
.. good luck. it's a bad experience, even not as owner. it's been a long while that i need to solve something without positive outcomes lol

edit: seriously made me think twice to get that all-amd setup for now. it's really too bad.
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I guess , sometimes assemble with different component will have some issue in certain area.
Try using win7 by means software test , wire cable DP or HDMI.

Few more test maybe helping

1. Did you test out with other benchmark too ? Maybe the game or bench having problem ?
2. Did you try on linux like Ubuntu since AMD having freesync support under it.http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/HOW-TO-ENABLE-AMD-FREESYNC-IN-LINUX.aspx
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news...-2-Announcement
With linux , they will have log on the output and variety features to tweak and confirm which part of error.



Maxieos
post Aug 27 2017, 01:05 AM

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QUOTE(horns @ Aug 25 2017, 12:55 AM)
well, good luck man; it's really frustrating. i don't really think it's the pc case but who knows?

in another computer, did you use the freesync display and turn freesync on?
from what you have highlighted, i think your laptop is ok for a ssd since the bios has ahci. it's most probable that you will reuse the ssd when you replace the laptop, so i think a 240gb range ssd should be good for you in future.

samsung 850 evo is still the better sata-based mainstream option imo. unless you have a tight budget, go with 850 evo 250gb at least.

edit: the sweet spot since last year is supposed to be 512gb in terms of capacity. (meaning same price of a 240gb range for last year but its capacity doubles; in fact in the US, the sweet spot is 1tb this year) here it sort of happened, but just not really what we want. (weak currency make us consumers buy expensive stuff for no reason)
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Thanks for telling , now I am looking on how to backup and retain the partition.Cloning but increase in spacing.
Old laptop somehow with only 10+GB free space and there is only windows 7 old license in the hard disk.Need to clone , retain Dell boot sector , increase window 7 spacing.
Anyhow do you have any idea which software about to do it ?
-retain 3 partition of dell ( Healthy OEM 39MB , RECOVERY 15GB , OS around 100GB )
-Increase OS to 180GB
-Create a Logical partition of the remaining space.

We all also have no luck where our currency never get improve and never drop below 4 conversion to USD , merchant are allow to increase price of item after g$t according to their preference.Mining affected GC price increase. sad.gif So much factor facing this year.

Hope everything will turn back better next year.

Back to topic , any suggestion of software doing that ? should I worry what I read about 4k alignment or something ?
Maxieos
post Aug 27 2017, 01:13 AM

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QUOTE(sHawTY @ Aug 26 2017, 11:48 PM)
Done all of them, go back to my previous posts and you'll see
The flickering starts on the desktop itself, so not going to do any benchmark or anything else until the flickering on desktop stops
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Try installing ubuntu and install AMD driver see whether is the driver issue. http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/P...C-IN-LINUX.aspx
I think it's the fastest way to test.If it still persist , try go to mnirc ubuntu or ubuntu hardware for real time response log/debug into pastebin and etc.
I only can think about it at this moment.

I too having problem with graphic resolution issue which I can't set custom size on monitor last time.

This post has been edited by Maxieos: Aug 27 2017, 01:14 AM
Maxieos
post Jul 17 2018, 10:01 PM

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QUOTE(NightFelix @ Jul 16 2018, 10:46 PM)
RM274 can get Kingston A400 480GB.
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Where to find the price ?
firmware driver and TLC ? reliable ?
Maxieos
post Jul 27 2018, 06:46 PM

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horns
Does those kingston A400 series with 480GB reliable ? I too cheap as a SSD.
Performance is sure low as browsing around but for a SATA1/2 connection , will it be enough ?
Read through https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4625459 but not sure whether most of the comment is true.

What part which worry the most was the firmware of sudden failure without warning.
What nand and firmware does the kingston A400 use ?
Maxieos
post Jul 28 2018, 11:21 PM

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QUOTE(horns @ Jul 27 2018, 09:04 PM)
kingston a400 uses non-3d tlc; dramless; with phison s11 as controller. firmware can be updated so it doesn't really matter. just get the latest from kingston.

about reliability, none of us can tell you the real answer. this is because it's influenced by various factors, and it needs time to prove its reliability. the good news is that kingston is one of the reputable brands, so you should have the least issues when claiming warranty, if something has indeed gone wrong.

as for performance, it should be ok for normal usage/gaming. as long as it's operating within its limits, it should be ok.
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Oh, btw , do you know any website which listed out which SSD using which controller ? because it really confuse and it's trouble you too if I keep on asking "what controller & nand this ssd (brand) using " ?
Sometimes , same ssd but different revision use different nand and controller.At lease I have some info on google search but some unknown brand like galax or OEM , hard to find out their info.Like last time plextor oem liteon on dell and etc.

My reliability view is base warranty return or I view as good controller and lasting.I don't want today able to boot , while tomorrow fail to boot and not able to retrieve the data.Compare those Traditional HD platter can still recover some of the data.

few more question
Which samsung model still offer 10 years warranty The pro version ? I saw there are 850 pro , 860 pro , 950/960 pro . Which controller and nand is better ? lease warranty too ?

QUOTE(Xirality @ Jul 27 2018, 09:23 PM)
Just start building my rig using the 480GB as main drive, I don't see any speed difference from my Macbook Pro 2017 PCIE SSD. Speedy as usual.
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So it looks fine for the speed ? Happy to heard that.As for an old sata1 connector , it's more than enough for old laptop to run.
QUOTE(joeboto @ Jul 27 2018, 09:28 PM)
i work in a retail shop. got many RMAs with kingston and PNY ssds. they become 'SATAFIRM' during standard use. dunno whats wrong. usually supplier replace a new one to the customer.
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SATAFIRM ? google it , looks like dead SSD rather than controller.Can’t retrieve data.So what about samsung and sandisk ?
QUOTE(NightFelix @ Jul 28 2018, 10:43 AM)
user posted image
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I'd go for 5 years warranty , but price is cheaper if really got voucher if getting from laz or shopee.
Maxieos
post Jul 30 2018, 09:59 PM

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QUOTE(horns @ Jul 29 2018, 02:07 AM)
i think thessdreview.com maintains a database about the specs of common ssds. about controllers/nand/dram/etc, there is no need to pay a lot of attention to them in general. usually you just need to read more from review sites about them if you're keen to know more. (like which existing ssds use the same stuff, and what their performance are like, etc)

yes you need to dig deeper if you wanted to find out more about those ssds. there is no shortcut.

if your reliability means warranty, then just compare warranty period and tbw allowed. however i hope you look beyond that. the advice that i can give you are these:
1. choose products from more reputed brands (samsung, intel, crucial, kingston; at least you can have relatively better warranty supports in general);
2. choose their mainstream drives. usually drives from this range are backed by relatively better quality controls and parts. they don't simply fail for no reasons. (in fact, mine never failed. not even once)

afaik only sandisk extreme pro and samsung 850 pro offer up to 10-year warranty.
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Thanks for the recommended website , now I was thinking the future advance on technology term on storage the harder for user to fix the problem them self.
Traditional HD will have symptom of failure but not on SSD.Even HD controller fail like old seagate 7200.10 there is still a way to replace the PCB board and swapping the controller.
No matter how , a backup is a must.Just depends on how much storage need to for backup.
May I know one question , does SSD data fail or get erase if the period of time 3-5 years not using ? I remember I saw an article mention SSD can't keep the data for long period without power up.

So only physical data such as disc is suitable for backup.Blu-ray disc is BD-R HTL is too expensive and not available.

Guess will choose what is cheaper with reputable brand.

May I ask , if a motherboard doesn't have a m.2 and NVMe slot means we can't use NVMe or m.2 ssd ? plus pcie is occupied with GC.The only go was sata SSD ?
Maxieos
post Aug 5 2018, 01:51 AM

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QUOTE(horns @ Jul 30 2018, 11:32 PM)
use hdd for long-term storage. (they are cheap and large) yes, backup is the simplest thing to do. spending some time regularly can prevent catastrophic data loss. (say, to external storage, once  a week; depending on the amount of data. the time spent is relatively shorter if you do it incrementally)

just don't do it when the storage is about to fail. you end up putting more stress on the failing hdd; not really a smart idea.

i never use ssd for long-term storage, so i'm not sure about this. i just use hdds for backups. my system has a data-only hdd for this. once a hdd is filled up, i detach it and take it out of the system, and replace with a new one. (for more important data i also use external hdd and cloud storage)

for nvme boot support, it's better to double check with your motherboard manual. (usually you can use nvme ssd as data drive) also, depending on the available pci-e lanes in your system and how they are allocated, many systems today can run both gc and nvme ssd at full speed.
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Just wonder ,if an SSD fail , what are the symptom ? Is there any SSD recovery tools if it fail to detect ?

Using old board , I guess need to update BIOS to support nvme.It'd better using back old regular ssd.Except for faster speed, what else benefits with nvme ? It cost 1 extra PCIe slot and motherboard with only 1 slot of PCIe is out of hope.M.2 sata is more for laptop without sata port ? Can recommend a reliable NVMe PCIe adapter ? saw a lot of cheap adapter but not sure whether it last long.


Just wonder , does ssd NAND on PC are the same as Smart phone ? I looks like smart phone flash storage is much long lasting.
Maxieos
post Aug 9 2018, 01:47 AM

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QUOTE(horns @ Aug 5 2018, 04:59 AM)
i have no idea about symptoms when a ssd fails. i only experienced once with an old sata ssd. (it's a 5-year+ old drive. the failure was caused by my carelessness) however after power recycling, it's back to life, and i'm still using it today. (data was gone, but i have backups) so technically it doesn't fail yet.

look, there is nothing wrong about sata ssd in the first place. for an old board, you should figure out its limitations, compatibility, etc. and decide from there. it's really that simple. besides speed, nvme and sata ssds are the same in general. i use a pcie x4 adapter since samsung xp941, http://www.bplus.com.tw/Adapter/M2P4A.html

nand in ssd is the same as those in smart phone. ssd failure doesn't mean it's due to nand. ssd consists of a number of components. each have chance to fail, depending on various factors. also, compared to other system components (mobo, gpu, hdd, ram, psu, etc), ssd has the least chance to fail statistically.

don't wonder too much. if you're so worried, just do regular system and data backups. that's the simplest way for you to prevent data loss due to catastrophic system failures.
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Thank you for all the question answering on SSD notworthy.gif respect for all the help.

All my wonder worries is due to someone said SSD is unknown timer of BSOD.Anytime without symptom of failure.Can't retrieve any data.Only the SSD company can do that and they will not help to retrieve it.
No restore tools and etc.

Btw , what is QLC flash ? Intel ssd with 512GB only $99 or RM404 ? SLC , MLC TLC now QLC ? means you can only r/w 500 times and spoil after than ?
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-...-nvme,5719.html
Maxieos
post Aug 9 2018, 01:50 AM

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QUOTE(chocobo7779 @ Aug 9 2018, 01:03 AM)
Remember back in 2009/2010 my friend bought a 80GB Intel X-25M for something like RM800 sweat.gif

Now RM800 can give you a SSD several times larger and puts the X-25M to shame in terms of performance brows.gif
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Hard to compare since new tech , I remember last time RM300 for 80GB hard disk during 2002.

This post has been edited by Maxieos: Aug 9 2018, 01:50 AM
Maxieos
post Aug 12 2018, 08:29 PM

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QUOTE(chocobo7779 @ Aug 9 2018, 02:14 AM)
SSD does fail, however just like any other storage device, the only way to mitigate this is to do regular backups icon_idea.gif

However, due to how SSD works (entirely with memory chips and no mechanical parts), data recovery can be a bit more complicated, and more expensive icon_idea.gif
That being said, SSDs are incredibly reliable and does not suffer from mechanical damage (but don't throw around your SSD though), provided that you buy one which uses decent NAND flash on it  icon_idea.gif
My recommendations would be something like SSDs from Intel/Sandisk (or WD, since Sandisk is part of WD)/Samsung.  Just make sure that you don't buy their super bargain bin models and you are pretty much good to go icon_idea.gif
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QUOTE(horns @ Aug 9 2018, 11:09 AM)
now i know why you're so worried. i think that some one didn't tell you a lot of things to give you clear pictures on ssd in general. chocobo7779 explained this better imo.

if ssds are so vulnerable to failures, who will get one anyway?

in terms of prevention of data loss, just practice regular backups. the money, time, and efforts that you spend for additional storage for backups are still relatively cheaper than you engaging data recovery services, with the risks of having data unrecoverable.

qlc flash is a type of flash that has relatively lower program/erase cycles than tlc. it can be used as high-read-low-write storage.
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Yep , I worried about SSD sudden failure. Staying at rural area.TNB power always trip for unknown reason and turn back on within 3 second.
Power unstable where fluorescent light will flicker twice a day.
If power outage without warning where r/w data on SSD , it'd surely be high risk for SSD
I remember I asked about SSD with "power loss protection" . Now only enterprise HD having it and it is extremely expensive.
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?thread...otection.63998/

QUOTE(chocobo7779 @ Aug 9 2018, 02:10 AM)
QLC = Quad Level Cell icon_idea.gif

This allows low cost SSDs with high capacity, but at a cost of performance:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-level_cell
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How is this QLC ? I mean reliable ?
Random Read IOPS Random Write IOPS Sequential Read MB/s Sequential Write MB/s
SSD 660p 220,000 220,000 1,800 1,800
SSD 600p 155,000 128,000 1,800 560
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/08/09/in...a_centre_quads/
QUOTE(Boldnut @ Aug 10 2018, 01:49 PM)
should be no issue, I just clone from my Sata 2 port 80GB windows 10 OS HDD from MBR to GPT Sata 3 port 80GB Kingston UV500 SSD.

I got more change than you. I clone/move from sata_2+HDD+MBR into Sata_3+GPT_SSD.  rclxms.gif
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Which software cloning you use ?
Maxieos
post Sep 4 2018, 10:12 PM

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Just wonder , anyone use ssd as VM before ? will it boot faster if both guest and host are using VM ?
Plan on getting a cheap kingston 480GB for VM.

This post has been edited by Maxieos: Sep 4 2018, 11:41 PM
Maxieos
post Sep 5 2018, 07:11 PM

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QUOTE(horns @ Sep 5 2018, 12:24 AM)
sure, of course both will boot faster.
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QUOTE(Skylinestar @ Sep 5 2018, 09:32 AM)
i have linux in my guest machine. on ssd. any OS, either in host or guest, will benefit a lot from ssd.
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Thanks for telling.Normal usage for VM since some old software driver like ocr only works on older window version.
Which linux guest ver you are using ? btw , to into swap will increase r/w on ssd ?
Maxieos
post Nov 12 2018, 01:18 AM

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QUOTE(horns @ Nov 11 2018, 02:53 PM)
thanks for the tip on shoppe i bought 970 pro 512gb from viewnet hehe
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how much you bought ?
Maxieos
post Nov 12 2018, 07:49 PM

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QUOTE(horns @ Nov 12 2018, 03:36 AM)
er i think it's about 1,052 myr after all discounts were applied

for my usage 512gb is more than sufficient as os drive. currently 960 evo 1tb only fills up about 40gb. (i can make better use of it for other purposes)

edit: tbh if you're talking about price only, without considering warranty, some sellers at tmall offer about 850 myr for 512gb.
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Yeh ,saw one with instalment , Tmall cost 810 but don't know about warranty.Better be safe with local warranty.Let us know how when you receive and performance.
btw, what better use for other purpose ? biggrin.gif resell ?

btw, I don't really need too fast performance , do you know any place I can get a SSD like Micron 5100 or Intel 730 ? Reason , would be stated before , power loss protection.
I don't see any local seller selling it , only can get from newegg or amazon which out of warranty.

This post has been edited by Maxieos: Nov 12 2018, 07:50 PM
Maxieos
post Nov 16 2018, 09:56 PM

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QUOTE(horns @ Nov 16 2018, 05:11 PM)
very nice smile.gif my 970 pro just arrived too

--

for those who use bitlocker: regarding the recent bitlocker issue on several seds (one of the related new articles), samsung has released their response here, https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minis...onsumer-notice/

more about the issue:
https://www.itnews.com.au/news/weak-self-sc...itlocker-515158
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A bit of review ? some batch have different performance compare to some online reviewat EU country. biggrin.gif
Maxieos
post Jan 9 2019, 11:24 PM

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Just wonder , is there any way to recover undetected ssd on motherboard ?
I read this topic a lot occur without a reason with slow down and next restart ssd not detectable .https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4718203
Maxieos
post Jan 16 2019, 07:36 PM

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QUOTE(horns @ Jan 10 2019, 05:12 PM)
not sure about the recovery part. however, it's not random that a ssd will behave abnormally, i believe. there will be signs. a good way to prevent this is to monitor its smart status from time to time.

after all these years, i only had one occasion that caused a ssd to be undetectable. i used the drive as external storage (not on motherboard). due to my mishandling, the ssd was not detectable even if i connected it to a system via sata + power cable. however all i did to fix it was to do power recycling, meaning disconnect sata cable from the drive, leaving only the power cable, then boot the system once. the drive is back to life. all data on that drive were lost in that case (i have backups), but until today it's still working fine, as my work external storage.

ssd, especially from known brands, is a common hardware component in a system that has the lowest failure rate in general. however it doesn't mean there is no lemon units. like everything mass-produced, there will be such units.

edit: my oldest ssd for personal use is more than 7 years old already. it's small and slow, but still working hehe
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I am more on wanted to know a way of recovery part.
Your case of ssd failure is less because you always choose the best biggrin.gif

Some said ssd without dram like those cheap sandisk have a higher failure rate.I did search on Dram vs dramless but too technical LBA or something.
But I know , power failure on dramless ssd have higher failure rate.

So the choice budget sata ver is either EVO 860 or EVO 850 and MX500 ? those have Dram ? Do you need to enable Rapid Mode for dram ?

This post has been edited by Maxieos: Jan 16 2019, 07:37 PM
Maxieos
post Jan 16 2019, 10:55 PM

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QUOTE(horns @ Jan 16 2019, 09:20 PM)
yes i know, but the information about recovery for ssd is kind of like none unfortunately.

please don't say that. i got them due to work purposes. if not, i will just settle with alternatives like mx500 for home use.

yes, there are trade-offs for dram-less ssd. there were articles written by experienced reviewers about this. things might have improved over time, since most articles were about 2d-tlc (planar tlc), and now we have better 3d-tlc (with much better endurance). however, i still prefer ssds with dram, mainly because dram is speediest and most durable as cache

yes those models have built-in dram. if you have a good amount of ram (like 16gb or more), you can turn rapid mode on. (btw rapid mode is not related to dram in ssd)
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Same during search none of those ssd able to recover data once it fail to recognize.If mechanical hard disk will have symptom and still possible to clone them if bad sector.SSD if spoil straight need to send for warranty and not recoverable.

Sorry , if i offended you , I was think you always choose the best ssd for review.Sorry to ask , what kind of work you are doing which require those fast ssd ?
As for me , I just need a reliable , recoverable SSD data.Traditional Hard disk really slow on booting Window 7.Takes 5-10 minutes upon boot , Antivirus check for updates and etc.
What software can auto sync at background on selected folder for windows ? Want to set auto sync when shutdown PC from Document folder to 2nd Mechnical hard disk as backup.

Don't understand about 2d or 3d nand.
I only remember on endurance
SLC > MLC > TLC
If adding 2d or 3d where it suppose to slip in comparison ?
Now, firmware and tech is more important than nand.Last time , need consistent firmware update TRIM and poor management.Now everything is improving and well done with newer technology.

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