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> Can Mitsubishi Xpander topple Honda BRV in 2018?

Expander to beat BRV?
 
1. Yes, the force is strong with this one [ 125 ] ** [57.08%]
2. No. Only in your dream [ 94 ] ** [42.92%]
Total Votes: 219
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TSEnergyAnalyst
post Aug 25 2017, 11:48 AM

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QUOTE(zweimmk @ Aug 25 2017, 07:50 AM)
If they cannot deliver better service with such low volumes then it would really be a shame.
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Low volume also does not equates to good service, can you think of other brands that have similar volume level and limited product offering and get ranked top 3 in the past 3 years?. I think it is easy to discredit a low volume seller and undermine the effort they may have put in to have a good customer service level this way. It is just too convenient and lazy to assume such way

TSEnergyAnalyst
post Aug 25 2017, 11:57 AM

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QUOTE(zweimmk @ Aug 25 2017, 08:17 AM)
Even if the SC service is as bad as people claims. People will still buy the Honda marque because:

- Long history in Malaysia
- Their car are relatively problem free
- Their cars have good resale value; the civic is the king when it comes to resale
- Not expensive to maintain
- Parts are easy to find, no fear of breakdown - local car mechanics have no issue dealing with T&H cars
- VTEC prangggg seems to still have a huge effect on young people today, hence the desirability

Just points 2 to 5 alone is more than enough to carry their brand.

Just to be clear also, consistent build quality is also one of Honda's weakness - First hand experience, for me - it's both irritating and a nuisance. For others, they outright hate it. But it's not something that would affect the car performance or safety. So till today, many people still bang and bitch about this issue - but it never really goes away.

Now Mitsubishi on the other hand:

- limited car selection
- except for the Triton, the other cars don't seem to carry its resale value as well
- cars should be relatively problem free
- cars should be cheap to maintain
- parts might not be as easy to find because less common but should still be relatively hassle free

It would be a very small room of opportunity. They would need to make sure those customers (like yourself) taking the leap of faith, are well taken care of so that they can build on from there.

In the near term, I don't think they will overtake Honda. Difficult to predict how they will fare long term.
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How did Mazda CX5 unseated best selling c segment SUV from the long reigning honda CRV?
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Aug 25 2017, 11:58 AM

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QUOTE(acbc @ Aug 25 2017, 09:11 AM)

** Update **

Engine is 4A91 used on Lancer EX (sold mostly in SG) and smart forfour. Highly reliable as I've a smart forfour for 10 years old already.
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Thanks for this info. Much appreciated
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Aug 25 2017, 12:05 PM

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QUOTE(aquilaTE @ Aug 24 2017, 03:28 PM)
Thx.  :thumbsup:
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You are most welcomed
zweimmk
post Aug 25 2017, 12:17 PM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Aug 25 2017, 11:57 AM)
How did Mazda CX5 unseated best selling c segment SUV from the long reigning honda CRV?
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Could be any of the reasons below:

Pricing?
Good Promotion?
Good kit?
More appealing design?

I remember when they first launched the CX5, it was seriously a good bargain for the kit and price. They launched the CBU unit that was quite loaded with goodies such as LED headlights and bose speakers etc.

Then when CKD production came, the price also went down - I could be wrong, just basing on what I remember or heard.

You can look at the price list as well, the CX5 base model is still cheaper than the CRV base model by 6k or 7k?

And then recently had a discussion with another member here, the distributor were selling the CX5 at extremely slim profit margins. Whereas the Mazda 6 was completely priced in a manner which did not make sense at all against its competition.

What's your take?

zweimmk
post Aug 25 2017, 12:27 PM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Aug 25 2017, 11:48 AM)
Low volume also does not equates to good service, can you think of other brands that have similar volume level and limited product offering and get ranked top 3 in the past 3 years?. I think it is easy to discredit a low volume seller and undermine the effort they may have put in to have a good customer service level this way. It is just too convenient and lazy to assume such way
*
Irregardless, as long as they aren't screwing up on their after sales then its a good thing.

The bigger problem they have now is having a product line which will make people get excited about buying.





TSEnergyAnalyst
post Aug 25 2017, 12:34 PM

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QUOTE(zweimmk @ Aug 25 2017, 12:17 PM)
Could be any of the reasons below:

Pricing?
Good Promotion?
Good kit?
More appealing design?

I remember when they first launched the CX5, it was seriously a good bargain for the kit and price. They launched the CBU unit that was quite loaded with goodies such as LED headlights and bose speakers etc.

Then when CKD production came, the price also went down - I could be wrong, just basing on what I remember or heard.

You can look at the price list as well, the CX5 base model is still cheaper than the CRV base model by 6k or 7k?

And then recently had a discussion with another member here, the distributor were selling the CX5 at extremely slim profit margins. Whereas the Mazda 6 was completely priced in a manner which did not make sense at all against its competition.

What's your take?
*
Exactly. There you have it a winning formula . Despite being a lesser know brand, harder to get parts. Remember the day before CX5?

Underdog sometimes need just one model to have a winner even if they lost out in brand , lost out in to the whole other scheme of things .

Hence my question : can this Xpander be another story of David vs Goliath?
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Aug 25 2017, 12:48 PM

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QUOTE(zweimmk @ Aug 25 2017, 12:27 PM)
Irregardless, as long as they aren't screwing up on their after sales then its a good thing.

The bigger problem they have now is having a product line which will make people get excited about buying.
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They have a a new design lingo. The X face. Poper code name:
Dynamic shield

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/indu...ehiro-kunimoto/


Like Kodo design , they can renew it later with other model line up , old or new of which some they can take from the fugly looking Nissan.




dstl1128
post Aug 25 2017, 02:47 PM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Aug 25 2017, 11:57 AM)
How did Mazda CX5 unseated best selling c segment SUV from the long reigning honda CRV?
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CRV from 3rd gen to .. the one before the current new one... basically same thing just change outlook getting uglier and uglier. Just happen CX5 came in the right moment. Even Nissan didn't bother to change their boxy X-Trail until the market saturated by CX5 and new CRV almost due. And Toyota didn't even bother with RAV4.

BRV is still fresh. And if Honda didn't up their SC, probably Xpander would steal some of the pie later on.

Or Honda thought BRV needed a facelift when Xpander debut here?





wkc5657
post Aug 25 2017, 03:16 PM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Aug 25 2017, 11:48 AM)
Low volume also does not equates to good service, can you think of other brands that have similar volume level and limited product offering and get ranked top 3 in the past 3 years?. I think it is easy to discredit a low volume seller and undermine the effort they may have put in to have a good customer service level this way. It is just too convenient and lazy to assume such way
*
My take is this, usually for those low volume brands, the local distributor itself is juggling a number of other brands or car sales are not their core business activity. So naturally, the brands/divisions that can give the best margin get the best/most resources for customer service and after sales service.

QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Aug 25 2017, 12:34 PM)
Exactly. There you have it a winning formula . Despite being a lesser know brand, harder to get parts. Remember the day before CX5?

Underdog sometimes need just one model to have a winner even if they lost out in brand , lost out in to the whole other scheme of things .

Hence my question : can this Xpander be another story of David vs Goliath?
*
It was good timing for mazda, it was just before the design transformation of both toyota and honda. Those were the times where both Toyota/honda was pretty snobbish. No doubt the CX5 pricing was a good attraction, and the free 3 years free service is pretty much segment leading after sale feature among the japanese camp.

Now with the pricing step up and the new design language and performance boost on honda's end, CX5 will see a significant loss of interest; even more so when the new CX5 looks like just another facelift despite being a new generation model.
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zenix
post Aug 25 2017, 09:26 PM

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b-segment mpv's all ugly
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Aug 25 2017, 10:46 PM

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QUOTE(dstl1128 @ Aug 25 2017, 02:47 PM)
CRV from 3rd gen to .. the one before the current new one... basically same thing just change outlook getting uglier and uglier. Just happen CX5 came in the right moment. Even Nissan didn't bother to change their boxy X-Trail until the market saturated by CX5 and new CRV almost due. And Toyota didn't even bother with RAV4.

BRV is still fresh. And if Honda didn't up their SC, probably Xpander would steal some of the pie later on.

Or Honda thought BRV needed a facelift when Xpander debut here?
*
Timing I agree play a role too.

High riding SUV like MPV is a newly catch on thing where ground clearance of 200mm is the expected minimum requirements

There are not many serious competition to BRV now. Any challenger will be a thing to be welcomed, at least buyer have more choices
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Aug 25 2017, 10:56 PM

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QUOTE(wkc5657 @ Aug 25 2017, 03:16 PM)
My take is this, usually for those low volume brands, the local distributor itself is juggling a number of other brands or car sales are not their core business activity. So naturally, the brands/divisions that can give the best margin get the best/most resources for customer service and after sales service.
It was good timing for mazda, it was just before the design transformation of both toyota and honda. Those were the times where both Toyota/honda was pretty snobbish. No doubt the CX5 pricing was a good attraction, and the free 3 years free service is pretty much segment leading after sale feature among the japanese camp.

Now with the pricing step up and the new design language and performance boost on honda's end, CX5 will see a significant loss of interest; even more so when the new CX5 looks like just another facelift despite being a new generation model.
*
So since Mitsubishi and Honda authorised distributor and service centres are from the same principal DRB Hicom group of companies, are you saying Honda gives lower margin and Mitsubishi gives higher margin?

Yes I agree timing can play a role too. Wait till you see the real deal new CX5 , I have seen it in Japan . My head was turned back until it hurts , to me it looks so much sharper and premium . The new CRV still turn me off because of many quirky and jarring bordering eye sore causing design oddities . Much like BRV in certain ways

riezzien
post Aug 26 2017, 06:00 AM

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interior not as modern than the exterior.

dstl1128
post Aug 26 2017, 07:32 AM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Aug 25 2017, 10:46 PM)
Timing I agree play a role too.

High riding SUV like MPV is a newly catch on thing where ground clearance of 200mm is the expected minimum requirements

There are not many serious competition to BRV now. Any challenger will be a thing to be welcomed, at least buyer have more choices
*
I like. BRV class with ladder frame. tongue.gif Sort of Isuzu Mu-X but @ the price of BRV. Smaller & 2wd.


zweimmk
post Aug 26 2017, 09:01 AM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Aug 25 2017, 10:56 PM)
So since Mitsubishi and Honda authorised distributor and service centres are from the same principal DRB Hicom group of companies, are you saying Honda gives lower margin and Mitsubishi gives higher margin?

Yes I agree timing can play a role too. Wait till you see the real deal new CX5 , I have seen it in Japan . My head was turned back until it hurts , to me it looks so much sharper and premium . The new CRV still turn me off because of many quirky and jarring bordering eye sore causing design oddities . Much like BRV in certain ways
*
Market conditions today are a lot more different than it was back in 2011/2012. Honda and even to some extend, Toyota, has finally started to give their cars more kit and warranty for the asking price. So it's definitely much more competitive now than it was then. Even semi-premium marques like VW has started to price their cars a lot more reasonably (no thanks to all their scandals and fiasco), and if you haven't already noticed - even premium marques like BMW/Mercedes/Volvo have even started to sell their entry level sedans at 160k to 170k marque, which may entice some of the buyers from the 140k-150k market.

Saw some photos of the new CX5 - it looks good but more like an evolution of the current design. Agree that the new CRV looks funny in some ways but one of its trump cards is the new Earth Dreams 1.5TC engine which Mazda has no counter for. Whether or not this makes a difference in sales figures is anyone's guess but for those of us who have been so used to the turbo kick, going back to NA will be somewhat of a challenge.

In the end, I think it depends on the pricing. Have you taken a look at the Mazda cars pricing?

Mazda 2 - kind of priced out of the City/Vios/Almera/Attrage war
CX3 - a little priced out against the HRV and 2008?, looks to compete against the new T-Roc
CX5 - competitive against CRV, X-trail
Mazda 3 - competitive against Civic, Altis, Jetta, 408?
Mazda 6 - completely priced out of competition against all its rivals - conti or otherwise

If the new CX5 continues the same pricing policy as the old CX5 while still giving good kit, it should be able to limit the impact of the new CRV. Difficult to say if they will maintain the sales lead but at least it will be a neck to neck battle.

The Xpander has a good chance of succeeding. Design looks good, Equipment looks decent - so it comes down to how they will price it in Malaysia. But Mitsubishi may find themselves facing the same profit margin issue that I and wkc5657 have discussed a week or 2 back. Do they go for market share while trying to survive on razor thin margins or go for better profits with the risk of pricing themselves out of the competition. This is also a problem that is facing the Kia Optima GT as well.


TSEnergyAnalyst
post Aug 26 2017, 09:10 PM

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https://www.otospirit.com/mobil/mobil-baru/...alan-lagi/27702

Record sales in Indonesia
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Aug 26 2017, 10:56 PM

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QUOTE(zweimmk @ Aug 26 2017, 09:01 AM)
Market conditions today are a lot more different than it was back in 2011/2012. Honda and even to some extend, Toyota, has finally started to give their cars more kit and warranty for the asking price. So it's definitely much more competitive now than it was then. Even semi-premium marques like VW has started to price their cars a lot more reasonably (no thanks to all their scandals and fiasco), and if you haven't already noticed - even premium marques like BMW/Mercedes/Volvo have even started to sell their entry level sedans at 160k to 170k marque, which may entice some of the buyers from the 140k-150k market.

Saw some photos of the new CX5 - it looks good but more like an evolution of the current design. Agree that the new CRV looks funny in some ways but one of its trump cards is the new Earth Dreams 1.5TC engine which Mazda has no counter for. Whether or not this makes a difference in sales figures is anyone's guess but for those of us who have been so used to the turbo kick, going back to NA will be somewhat of a challenge.

In the end, I think it depends on the pricing. Have you taken a look at the Mazda cars pricing?

Mazda 2 - kind of priced out of the City/Vios/Almera/Attrage war
CX3 - a little priced out against the HRV and 2008?, looks to compete against the new T-Roc
CX5 - competitive against CRV, X-trail
Mazda 3 - competitive against Civic, Altis, Jetta, 408?
Mazda 6 - completely priced out of competition against all its rivals - conti or otherwise

If the new CX5 continues the same pricing policy as the old CX5 while still giving good kit, it should be able to limit the impact of the new CRV. Difficult to say if they will maintain the sales lead but at least it will be a neck to neck battle.

The Xpander has a good chance of succeeding. Design looks good, Equipment looks decent - so it comes down to how they will price it in Malaysia. But Mitsubishi may find themselves facing the same profit margin issue that I and wkc5657 have discussed a week or 2 back. Do they go for market share while trying to survive on razor thin margins or go for better profits with the risk of pricing themselves out of the competition. This is also a problem that is facing the Kia Optima GT as well.
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As far as Mazda is concerned, below is the turbo boost to Mazda's brand thanks to Toyota


https://www.forbes.com/sites/danroth/2017/0...a/#ae7ddc9d3d81

Cost will go down for Mazda in long run. I stress long run
zweimmk
post Aug 27 2017, 09:59 AM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Aug 26 2017, 10:56 PM)
As far as Mazda is concerned, below is the turbo boost to Mazda's brand thanks to Toyota
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danroth/2017/0...a/#ae7ddc9d3d81

Cost will go down for Mazda in long run. I stress long run
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It's a joint electrical vehicle development and a production facility in the US. So yes, cost will go down - just not in our region. If they are building a joint production facility in Thailand, things may change considerably.

Anyway, this isn't related and it will be a few years before we know if Mitsubishi will succeed.
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Aug 27 2017, 11:37 AM

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QUOTE(zweimmk @ Aug 27 2017, 09:59 AM)
It's a joint electrical vehicle development and a production facility in the US. So yes, cost will go down - just not in our region. If they are building a joint production facility in Thailand, things may change considerably.

Anyway, this isn't related and it will be a few years before we know if Mitsubishi will succeed.
*
http://www.autonews.com/article/20150513/O...s-confront-cost

If you recall the engagement was done in 2015. This 2017 is just one of more eventual things to come. I guess you still miss my long term emphasis... Even though I have stress it in my earlier reply to you

This post has been edited by EnergyAnalyst: Aug 27 2017, 11:38 AM

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