Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

> Active vs. Passive funds, 2 minute video

views
     
lunchtime
post Aug 12 2017, 02:33 AM

Casual
***
Junior Member
487 posts

Joined: Aug 2011
QUOTE(wild_card_my @ Aug 8 2017, 04:28 AM)
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2017-...investing-video

In Malaysia unit trust funds are being sold as if they are the final answer to your retirement plans - at least that is the impression that I am getting from unit trust consultants who are paid handsomely as commissions from the investments made by their clients. But are there other types of investments out there which are more passive, or perhaps even more active than unit trusts? 

Sure, passive-wise you can look into index-funds, these funds track a particular index; the index is invested in all the stocks that make up an index - like the S&P 500.

More active-wise, you can look into hedge-funds, but I will not talk about them too much since they are not too relevant for the average-joe reading this topic. They are aggressively managed, promises good returns, but comes with very high fees, which are paid regardless of their performances (but they get paid more as they generate higher returns for the investors). Avoid  laugh.gif  or not, up to you.

The arguments against actively-managed investment (in this case, the aforementioned unit trust funds):

- high management fees (1 to 2.5% per annum) eating up the profits
- high agent fees also eating up your initial investments (between 5.5% to 6.5% for cash investments and 3% for EPF-withdrawal investments).
- majority of funds end up end up not beating the index in 1, 5, and even 10 years periods, as published in several studies, also quoted in the video (the high fees being quoted as a big part of the problem)

In Malaysia there is a limited number of ETFs or index funds that we can buy; you need to look overseas. You can perhaps start looking into Vanguard and other providers. I believe there are services that allow you to buy them while in Malaysia. 

Disclaimer: I'm not selling anything nor am I an investment agent, I have no material interests in any of these companies/organizations.
*
Out of curiosity, how much do you charge for the loan and insurance services you provide to your clients?

I am just a regular joe trying to understand the fuss about fees. I doubt the above are charity work. Every thing has a fee to pay, either built in or not. You buy a house, you pay the lawyer fee, the banker's fee, the developer's profit, the supplier's profit and so forth and like wise with everything you buy or use. Tell us who will work for free. Do you work for free?

Investing on your own make sound simple enough, read a few books and good to go, so why isn't everyone a Buffett or a Soros? Why are we still 9 to 5 kuli? In reality, it isn't that easy as you make it to be. I believe a vast majority of people don't understand UT let alone ETF or know what Vanguard is.

And likely if am I taking a loan and buying insurance, I would look for you to advise on the steps and what-to-look-fors, you wouldn't give free advice, would you? Again, what is your fee on say a 5m loan and insurance coverage for that loan?

This post has been edited by lunchtime: Aug 12 2017, 02:35 AM
lunchtime
post Aug 12 2017, 04:51 PM

Casual
***
Junior Member
487 posts

Joined: Aug 2011
QUOTE(wild_card_my @ Aug 12 2017, 04:10 PM)
For straight forward cases, I do not charge, i get my commissions from the bank. Banks have 3 channels to distribute their loans - branch bankers, mobile bankers, and outsource brokers like myself. All these channels will have their pay, be it in the form of salary, commissions, or a combination of both.

Malaysians do NOT like to pay fees upfront, so the fees for "financial  planners" have to be absorbed into the loan/product itself - i.e insurances

On the second part of your questions, same. no fees are charged to you. But keep in mind that I am getting my commissions from the bank that you sign up for, and insurance companies that I am attached with. So indirectly you would be paying one way or another. Most agents don't like to talk about this; but smart consumers know that one way or another, they are still paying for the agents' or employee's work.
I can't say at all based on such a wide audience... it depends on your objective, investment horizon, capital, bumi/vs.non-bumi (yes it matters, bro  sweat.gif  sweat.gif  sweat.gif ), etc.

As it is though, I am not promoting any investment schemes - not a UT agent nor employed for any banks or fund houses.
*
You say you don't charge a fee, would it be more correct to say fee is already built in, just that you don't disclose. Simply put it your clients are indirectly paying fees to you via the banks or insurance companies, that isn't transparent. Now for $100000 loan, how much % do you earn? Likewise with a $100000 insurance policy, how much % do you earn?

As I remember correctly, insurance agents earn a huge chuck of commissions aka fees from the premiums we pay. In the first 5 years, whatever premiums paid to insurance companies for so called savings / investment policies has minimum cash value and insurance agents commissions are about 20%-40% of the premiums we pay? Don't you think those fees are exorbitant and not transparent?

I believe I have an idea of how much you folks earn and how your fees are paid to you folks as I was recently at my insurance company's CS to check on my policies.

Again, no one in your line of work will do charity work and likewise with everyone else, there is a price to pay for services and products rendered. Do programmers work for free? Do lawyers work for free? Do accountants work for free? Do actors work for free? Do engineers work for free? And you expect fund houses to work for free?

And from the responses here asking about which UT funds to invest in, that clearly shows the lack of basic investment knowledge. And on advices to place funds with Public Mutual, that is another indication of herd mentality without doing any homework.





lunchtime
post Aug 13 2017, 01:40 AM

Casual
***
Junior Member
487 posts

Joined: Aug 2011
QUOTE(wild_card_my @ Aug 12 2017, 09:39 PM)
As you put it, only the ignorant would actually think that anyone would be doing work for charity. I never tried to hide the fact that I am getting paid indirectly, as written above. Can you read? At this point though, I am not sure what is your intent - you can guess what I am making all you want.

Anyone who has a basic comprehension can read the policies and get a good idea of what the agents are making, it doesn't make you any special. Hint: it's on page 4, 5, or 6. Just look up the "insurance charge" or "wakallah fees"  rolleyes.gif

Again, only someone so naive would even begin to assume that anyone would even work for free, not in this line at least, and to have someone like you even mentioning about it says a lot about you eh?
*
You started this thread about fees unit trust funds charge and you stated that you do not charge any fee. Can you share with us how a unit trust agent charge fees? Do they bill the client for the their fees? I doubt so, and you do the same when you close a loan agreement or insurance policy.

So what is the difference between how an unit trust agent charge fees and how you charge fees? In reality, both of you charge a fee and are paid by the company you work for via commissions, yet you claim you don't charge a fee.

Since you brought about insurance charge, I did a bit of reading, and I must say you earn big money, earning a whopping 110% to 171% of premiums paid for those policies. No wonder insurance policies hardly have any cash value in the first 10 years. For the same total of $429k invested in unit trust at 5.5% service charge is only $23595 whereas in insurance is it $100601. Isn't your hidden fees exorbitant?

user posted image

http://www.thestar.com.my/business/busines...n-line-with-ot/

Damn, I should be smart like you rather than being stuck in a 9-5.
lunchtime
post Aug 13 2017, 06:26 PM

Casual
***
Junior Member
487 posts

Joined: Aug 2011
QUOTE(wild_card_my @ Aug 13 2017, 11:27 AM)
you do have reading comprehension problems don't you?

1. I do not sell any investment products, ASB, UT, ETF, whatever you call it, I do not.

2. When I said I do not charge any fees, that was a reply to someone asking about mortgages, which is a liability and not an investment. He went out of topic because if you do not know about it yet, financing and investments are 2 different things

You wrote all that wall of text for nothing because you failed to read  whistling.gif  whistling.gif  puke.gif
*
Go read what your wrote and understand what you were getting at. Don't misrepresent by stating you are FEE FREE and hiding behind company commissions. And you have be avoiding my questions, clearly shows your character on such matters.

This post has been edited by lunchtime: Aug 13 2017, 06:47 PM
lunchtime
post Aug 14 2017, 04:15 PM

Casual
***
Junior Member
487 posts

Joined: Aug 2011
QUOTE(wild_card_my @ Aug 14 2017, 10:56 AM)
You are a waste of my time. Anyone with a good sense understands that I am not doing my job for free, and anyone without a pea brain knows that commissions/salary are the costs that companies incur to generate sales, and these costs are passed on to the consumer, one way or another

I've never had any issues with my customers, they know they are paying me one way or another, and I am one to tell them that I get paid in commissions - but you, you are just looking for an argument aren't you? Nothing better to do eh?

This topi is about active vs. passive funds, and I am not even selling them. Not sure why it is so difficult to get that through your head. Too small maybe  cool2.gif
*
Pusing pusing pusing as usual. LOL!!

Bump Topic Add ReplyOptions New Topic
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0184sec    0.36    7 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 9th December 2025 - 06:57 AM