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> Questions for Atheists., Ask and answer anything.

Spear2
post Dec 8 2017, 05:50 PM

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QUOTE(shaniandras2787 @ Dec 8 2017, 05:36 PM)
:haha: with a little "preference adjustment" i guess God could have sent that same "spirit" that took all of Egypt's first born BUT then again, if the spirit took all of the adults, leaving the babies behind THEN He would haven't been criticized again because practically, babies are useless by themselves, isn't it? further, that would even attract more "social negativity".

the master reset button would be a more approachable measure laugh.gif
*
Might as well kill them all right?
iGamer
post Dec 8 2017, 10:42 PM

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QUOTE(shaniandras2787 @ Dec 8 2017, 05:36 PM)
:haha: with a little "preference adjustment" i guess God could have sent that same "spirit" that took all of Egypt's first born BUT then again, if the spirit took all of the adults, leaving the babies behind THEN He would haven't been criticized again because practically, babies are useless by themselves, isn't it? further, that would even attract more "social negativity".

the master reset button would be a more approachable measure laugh.gif
*
QUOTE(Spear2 @ Dec 8 2017, 05:50 PM)
Might as well kill them all right?
*
So all the guys were gay and all the women were lesbian in that city? How did they produce babies? rclxub.gif
shaniandras2787
post Dec 9 2017, 09:12 AM

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QUOTE(iGamer @ Dec 8 2017, 10:42 PM)
So all the guys were gay and all the women were lesbian in that city? How did they produce babies?  rclxub.gif
*
Well, unless the Bible tells more... what we can briefly summarized is that NOT everyone belongs in the "archaic" LGBT way of life but majority of them does, this could also mean that there may be a fraction or maybe more than half of S&G's population that are normal or maybe bisexual.

They would have a family but then again at the same time engage in same sex sexual tryst.

I guess the "normal" people would have been given a fair opportunity to fled the city earlier before God call forth the "armageddon" but the fact that they stayed means they accepted the way of life. Remember that old saying "if your right hand causes you to sin, kasi potong?". Something like that, I assumed.

God asked Lot to GTFO and he did but with one specific instruction, to not look back, maybe the "looking back" symbolize a "longing" or "an attachment" to that place? Lot's wife did and BAAMM, she became a "palang of garam" laugh.gif
shaniandras2787
post Dec 9 2017, 09:25 AM

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QUOTE(Spear2 @ Dec 8 2017, 05:50 PM)
Might as well kill them all right?
*
yeaaaap~!

kill them all.

I believed that God deliberated for a long time before He decided to just wipe out the entire city and its people. It's not an easy decision for Him to make as we can see in the Bible, it was mentioned a gazillion times that God loves His people. He even gave his only Son to save all of us from the sins we have committed.

Would you give up your children's life just to save your neighbor's, let say, son's sin? Would you have your son admit to a murder (when you know he did not do it), just to make sure that your neighbor's son gets a second chance in life? Heck, most of us don't even dare to man up to face our own music.

Even if anyone of them went rogue, the attachment is still there. For instance, if you are a software programmer and somewhere went wrong and its generating all sorts of weird codes and stuffs, the only way to get rid of it is to delete the entire thing, surely, the programmer will feel that "it is such a waste". That too we are talking about.... something "inorganic", what more human attachments.

One can only assumed and imagine how bad God must have felt when He destroyed S&G.

The one thing people always fail to understand is that God has feelings too and He feels what we felt but only a billion times stronger, people neglected the fact that because He is always depicted as an omnipotent figure, seemingly incapable of affection and always appeared to be punishing people and sending His wrath all over the world laugh.gif

Does anyone remember why God created Adam in the first place? God felt lonely and also the fact that there is no one to enjoy the things that He has created (ie. Eden).

Why God created Eve? It is because God can feel how lonely Adam is because God was once in Adam's position. That's some empathy stuff yo~!
Spear2
post Dec 9 2017, 09:55 AM

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QUOTE(shaniandras2787 @ Dec 9 2017, 09:25 AM)
yeaaaap~!

kill them all.

I believed that God deliberated for a long time before He decided to just wipe out the entire city and its people. It's not an easy decision for Him to make as we can see in the Bible, it was mentioned a gazillion times that God loves His people. He even gave his only Son to save all of us from the sins we have committed.

Would you give up your children's life just to save your neighbor's, let say, son's sin? Would you have your son admit to a murder (when you know he did not do it), just to make sure that your neighbor's son gets a second chance in life? Heck, most of us don't even dare to man up to face our own music.

Even if anyone of them went rogue, the attachment is still there. For instance, if you are a software programmer and somewhere went wrong and its generating all sorts of weird codes and stuffs, the only way to get rid of it is to delete the entire thing, surely, the programmer will feel that "it is such a waste". That too we are talking about.... something "inorganic", what more human attachments.

One can only assumed and imagine how bad God must have felt when He destroyed S&G.

The one thing people always fail to understand is that God has feelings too and He feels what we felt but only a billion times stronger, people neglected the fact that because He is always depicted as an omnipotent figure, seemingly incapable of affection and always appeared to be punishing people and sending His wrath all over the world laugh.gif

Does anyone remember why God created Adam in the first place? God felt lonely and also the fact that there is no one to enjoy the things that He has created (ie. Eden).

Why God created Eve? It is because God can feel how lonely Adam is because God was once in Adam's position. That's some empathy stuff yo~!
*
Only religion can mess up your morality so badly and still feels good about it, God loved His children so much that He had to kill them all, including kids and babies. One wonders if the terrorists would cleanse the world from the perceived vile and corruption, kill them all with the same justification, they were just carrying out God's wishes.

And God felt lonely ... How long has passed since He finally decided to create Adam?

zamorin
post Dec 9 2017, 10:08 AM

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QUOTE(shaniandras2787 @ Dec 9 2017, 09:25 AM)
I believed that God deliberated for a long time before He decided to just wipe out the entire city and its people. It's not an easy decision for Him to make as we can see in the Bible, it was mentioned a gazillion times that God loves His people.
What bizarre morals! He killed them but he loves them? What's the difference then if god loves them or hates them?
QUOTE(shaniandras2787 @ Dec 9 2017, 09:25 AM)
The one thing people always fail to understand is that God has feelings too and He feels what we felt but only a billion times stronger, people neglected the fact that because He is always depicted as an omnipotent figure, seemingly incapable of affection and always appeared to be punishing people and sending His wrath all over the world
So, he is not omnipotent?

No religion ever promote their god as only punishing people but also as a loving god, including Christianity. No one failed to understand that.

This post has been edited by zamorin: Dec 9 2017, 10:15 AM
iGamer
post Yesterday, 12:49 PM

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QUOTE(Spear2 @ Dec 9 2017, 09:55 AM)
Only religion can mess up your morality so badly and still feels good about it, God loved His children so much that He had to kill them all, including kids and babies. One wonders if the terrorists would cleanse the world from the perceived vile and corruption, kill them all with the same justification, they were just carrying out God's wishes.

And God felt lonely ... How long has passed since He finally decided to create Adam?
*
Didn't God already created angels before he supposedly created human? Does this imply the Angels were boring beings, perhaps too obidient? hmm.gif
shaniandras2787
post Yesterday, 02:51 PM

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QUOTE(Spear2 @ Dec 9 2017, 09:55 AM)
Only religion can mess up your morality so badly and still feels good about it, God loved His children so much that He had to kill them all, including kids and babies. One wonders if the terrorists would cleanse the world from the perceived vile and corruption, kill them all with the same justification, they were just carrying out God's wishes.

And God felt lonely ... How long has passed since He finally decided to create Adam?
*
You my friend belong to the group of people whom already had an "extreme" mindset where they subscribed to the notion that religion is bad. Note: "extreme" not "extremist". You always make "extreme" comparisons rather than rationale ones.

You are not wrong and I won't try to prove you are because it will be a waste of the universe's time. This is because you only want to understand things the way you want it to be understood, not what things are meant to be understood. You are like a rubber band and you suffer from "rubber-banding", the more you are stretched, the higher your resistance is.

I am just going to make a point where you are not right.

Religion did not mess up my morality, in fact if you see it in the chronology order, since you mentioned morality, is LGBT right in the right course of nature? Was what happened in S&G intended to be the normal course of nature? Surely, the answer cannot be a resounding "Yes!". God did not create Steve, Bill or Jack but He created Eve.

You could again argue that I may be wrong because "i wasn't there" but majority rules and hundreds of countries in planet earth cannot be wrong too.

You are drawn to the conclusion that God decided to destroy an entire city with innocent people in it as if God did not deliberated on it. I would invite you again to read the "possibility" of actions that God may have taken before He decided to just "kaboom" an entire city. Like I also mentioned earlier, God could do "selective killing" and He can because He showed it in Egypt, so there must be an underlying principle why God decided this time to just hit the "reset button" laugh.gif

You are harboring under a wrong impression when it comes to terrorism, true, terrorists act upon the notion that they are under an obligation to "cleanse" and they are under the influence that they have the authority to do so rightfully but truly, is there such authority given?

You need to make a fair distinction now, God giveth hence He taketh. God made us, so technically speaking, we are His so He has all the rights to do what He wants with us. Terrorists did not make us so what gives them the authority to take what is not theirs?

Same thing like if you bought a car, you can drive it down to a river stream and kill your family members in it. It's your choice and nobody can stop you from doing it. No country in this world will launch a war against you for what you have done but the real question is, are you ready to deal with the circumstances? God is.

"how long", I do not even dare dwell in the question of time as it has been mentioned time after time after time that God's timing and our timing is entirely different so unless we, humans are able to grasp the essence of the definition of God's time, let's just leave that out for the moment, shall we?

for all purposes, let's just assumed time is "sufficient".

QUOTE(zamorin @ Dec 9 2017, 10:08 AM)
What bizarre morals! He killed them but he loves them? What's the difference then if god loves them or hates them?
So, he is not omnipotent?

No religion ever promote their god as only punishing people but also as a loving god, including Christianity. No one failed to understand that.
*
I kept on seeing the term "morals" in this thread. Everyone seems to be questioning the "morality" of God. Truly, on what moral standards are you judging God? That is the first thing whoever wants to judge morality must first ascertained. Without knowing where the "standard" comes from, we are only qualified to be an observer.

S&G has fallen to a state beyond redemption so tell me, would you walk happily along Jalan Ampang if every 3 steps you take, you see 2 naked men having intercourse? There is a possibility that you might enjoy the view because these people are not your concern, they have nothing to do with you. No statutory law actually binds a passerby to an obligation to help a person in danger, you are that passerby. Just to make it clearer to you, you would be the person who drives slowly passing by a traffic accident trying to figure what happened but has no intention of helping.

Those people in S&G, they belong to God so every single thing they do reflects on Him.

Have you seen a father who loves his son so much that he is willing to report to the police the crime his son has committed so that his son could be arrested with the hope that after all the due legal process, his son could be saved? Another type of father is the one who will condone and assist the son to keep mum of all the crimes he has done because the father couldn't afford to see his son loses his freedom, is this then called "love", the act of allowing the son to continue "killing" himself.

If God is not omnipotent then what He is?

You are right, no religion has ever depicted their God as an "always angry God and always finding people to kill". Can I ask you a question? Did you read the bible before? Not in depth but just the first few chapters of it would immediately run your mind clear. God is not always angry, He gets "pissed off" when people pisses Him off. naturally.

Take for an example, Abraham was asked by God to sacrifice one of this sons, Abraham complied but before the sacrificing aka killing, did you know that God sent a messenger (angel) to stop Abraham from do so?

Another example, Ishmael and Hagar, they were "kicked out" but God did not left them to die in the desert, in fact, what happened is that the bible states that God was with Ishmael while he was growing up.

So just to further sealed that matter of fact, yeah, in my opinion, God is pretty loving, just don't piss Him off :hahahaa:

QUOTE(iGamer @ Dec 10 2017, 12:49 PM)
Didn't God already created angels before he supposedly created human? Does this imply the Angels were boring beings, perhaps too obidient?  hmm.gif
*
:haha: No mention on that part but probably angels were like servants to God, they carried out God's wishes/orders and that is all. Something like employer/employee relationship. God created Adam because He wanted someone to talk too (crudely put) and created in "His image" because what would be better than duplicating Himself to ensure high compatibility XD

This post has been edited by shaniandras2787: Yesterday, 03:03 PM
zamorin
post Yesterday, 03:52 PM

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QUOTE(shaniandras2787 @ Dec 10 2017, 02:51 PM)
I kept on seeing the term  "morals" in this thread. Everyone seems to be questioning the "morality" of God. Truly, on what moral standards are you judging God? That is the first thing whoever wants to judge morality must first ascertained. Without knowing where the "standard" comes from, we are only qualified to be an observer.

S&G has fallen to a state beyond redemption so tell me, would you walk happily along Jalan Ampang if every 3 steps you take, you see 2 naked men having intercourse? There is a possibility that you might enjoy the view because these people are not your concern, they have nothing to do with you. No statutory law actually binds a passerby to an obligation to help a person in danger, you are that passerby. Just to make it clearer to you, you would be the person who drives slowly passing by a traffic accident trying to figure what happened but has no intention of helping.
You assume we don't know but we do and we know you claim yours come from Bible. Other than the fact that it is not true and can be demonstrable, the morals in the Bible itself is immorality passing off as morality. Even attempts to point out to you the hypocrisy seems to be in vain.

If S&G was moral, then anything can be passed off as moral including genocide which you are justifying.
QUOTE(shaniandras2787 @ Dec 10 2017, 02:51 PM)
Can I ask you a question? Did you read the bible before? Not in depth but just the first few chapters of it would immediately run your mind clear. God is not always angry, He gets "pissed off" when people pisses Him off. naturally.

I have read the whole Bible in depth and not just the King James version and I am also aware that many Christians claim to have read the Bible. Have you read any other Holy books other than the Bible? The properties of those gods are pretty much identical.

This post has been edited by zamorin: Yesterday, 03:57 PM
biatche
post Yesterday, 06:40 PM

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QUOTE(shaniandras2787 @ Dec 10 2017, 02:51 PM)
You my friend belong to the group of people whom already had an "extreme" mindset where they subscribed to the notion that religion is bad. Note: "extreme" not "extremist". You always make "extreme" comparisons rather than rationale ones.

You are not wrong and I won't try to prove you are because it will be a waste of the universe's time. This is because you only want to understand things the way you want it to be understood, not what things are meant to be understood. You are like a rubber band and you suffer from "rubber-banding", the more you are stretched, the higher your resistance is.

I am just going to make a point where you are not right.

Religion did not mess up my morality, in fact if you see it in the chronology order, since you mentioned morality, is LGBT right in the right course of nature? Was what happened in S&G intended to be the normal course of nature? Surely, the answer cannot be a resounding "Yes!". God did not create Steve, Bill or Jack but He created Eve.

You could again argue that I may be wrong because "i wasn't there" but majority rules and hundreds of countries in planet earth cannot be wrong too.

You are drawn to the conclusion that God decided to destroy an entire city with innocent people in it as if God did not deliberated on it. I would invite you again to read the "possibility" of actions that God may have taken before He decided to just "kaboom" an entire city. Like I also mentioned earlier, God could do "selective killing" and He can because He showed it in Egypt, so there must be an underlying principle why God decided this time to just hit the "reset button" laugh.gif

You are harboring under a wrong impression when it comes to terrorism, true, terrorists act upon the notion that they are under an obligation to "cleanse" and they are under the influence that they have the authority to do so rightfully but truly, is there such authority given?

You need to make a fair distinction now, God giveth hence He taketh. God made us, so technically speaking, we are His so He has all the rights to do what He wants with us. Terrorists did not make us so what gives them the authority to take what is not theirs?

Same thing like if you bought a car, you can drive it down to a river stream and kill your family members in it. It's your choice and nobody can stop you from doing it. No country in this world will launch a war against you for what you have done but the real question is, are you ready to deal with the circumstances? God is.

"how long", I do not even dare dwell in the question of time as it has been mentioned time after time after time that God's timing and our timing is entirely different so unless we, humans are able to grasp the essence of the definition of God's time, let's just leave that out for the moment, shall we?

for all purposes, let's just assumed time is "sufficient".
I kept on seeing the term  "morals" in this thread. Everyone seems to be questioning the "morality" of God. Truly, on what moral standards are you judging God? That is the first thing whoever wants to judge morality must first ascertained. Without knowing where the "standard" comes from, we are only qualified to be an observer.

S&G has fallen to a state beyond redemption so tell me, would you walk happily along Jalan Ampang if every 3 steps you take, you see 2 naked men having intercourse? There is a possibility that you might enjoy the view because these people are not your concern, they have nothing to do with you. No statutory law actually binds a passerby to an obligation to help a person in danger, you are that passerby. Just to make it clearer to you, you would be the person who drives slowly passing by a traffic accident trying to figure what happened but has no intention of helping.

Those people in S&G, they belong to God so every single thing they do reflects on Him.

Have you seen a father who loves his son so much that he is willing to report to the police the crime his son has committed so that his son could be arrested with the hope that after all the due legal process, his son could be saved? Another type of father is the one who will condone and assist the son to keep mum of all the crimes he has done because the father couldn't afford to see his son loses his freedom, is this then called "love", the act of allowing the son to continue "killing" himself.

If God is not omnipotent then what He is?

You are right, no religion has ever depicted their God as an "always angry God and always finding people to kill". Can I ask you a question? Did you read the bible before? Not in depth but just the first few chapters of it would immediately run your mind clear. God is not always angry, He gets "pissed off" when people pisses Him off. naturally.

Take for an example, Abraham was asked by God to sacrifice one of this sons, Abraham complied but before the sacrificing aka killing, did you know that God sent a messenger (angel) to stop Abraham from do so?

Another example, Ishmael and Hagar, they were "kicked out" but God did not left them to die in the desert, in fact, what happened is that the bible states that God was with Ishmael while he was growing up.

So just to further sealed that matter of fact, yeah, in my opinion, God is pretty loving, just don't piss Him off :hahahaa:
:haha: No mention on that part but probably angels were like servants to God, they carried out God's wishes/orders and that is all. Something like employer/employee relationship. God created Adam because He wanted someone to talk too (crudely put) and created in "His image" because what would be better than duplicating Himself to ensure high compatibility XD
*
god also sent us as messengers in this forum to ask you to stop telling tales like "god sent a messenger and god did this, god did that, god was with whom and whom".

This post has been edited by biatche: Yesterday, 07:14 PM
Spear2
post Yesterday, 10:15 PM

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QUOTE(shaniandras2787 @ Dec 10 2017, 02:51 PM)
You my friend belong to the group of people whom already had an "extreme" mindset where they subscribed to the notion that religion is bad. Note: "extreme" not "extremist". You always make "extreme" comparisons rather than rationale ones.

You are not wrong and I won't try to prove you are because it will be a waste of the universe's time. This is because you only want to understand things the way you want it to be understood, not what things are meant to be understood. You are like a rubber band and you suffer from "rubber-banding", the more you are stretched, the higher your resistance is.

I am just going to make a point where you are not right.

Religion did not mess up my morality, in fact if you see it in the chronology order, since you mentioned morality, is LGBT right in the right course of nature? Was what happened in S&G intended to be the normal course of nature? Surely, the answer cannot be a resounding "Yes!". God did not create Steve, Bill or Jack but He created Eve.

You could again argue that I may be wrong because "i wasn't there" but majority rules and hundreds of countries in planet earth cannot be wrong too.

You are drawn to the conclusion that God decided to destroy an entire city with innocent people in it as if God did not deliberated on it. I would invite you again to read the "possibility" of actions that God may have taken before He decided to just "kaboom" an entire city. Like I also mentioned earlier, God could do "selective killing" and He can because He showed it in Egypt, so there must be an underlying principle why God decided this time to just hit the "reset button" laugh.gif

You are harboring under a wrong impression when it comes to terrorism, true, terrorists act upon the notion that they are under an obligation to "cleanse" and they are under the influence that they have the authority to do so rightfully but truly, is there such authority given?

You need to make a fair distinction now, God giveth hence He taketh. God made us, so technically speaking, we are His so He has all the rights to do what He wants with us. Terrorists did not make us so what gives them the authority to take what is not theirs?

Same thing like if you bought a car, you can drive it down to a river stream and kill your family members in it. It's your choice and nobody can stop you from doing it. No country in this world will launch a war against you for what you have done but the real question is, are you ready to deal with the circumstances? God is.

"how long", I do not even dare dwell in the question of time as it has been mentioned time after time after time that God's timing and our timing is entirely different so unless we, humans are able to grasp the essence of the definition of God's time, let's just leave that out for the moment, shall we?

for all purposes, let's just assumed time is "sufficient".
*
God killed innocent kids and babies and you feel morally good and great about that. But He taketh what He giveth. So God is above morality but yet He loves His children and deliberated when He was about to kaboom the entire city. What a nice inconsistent story.

So God has been lonely for eternity and then decided He was lonely and created Adam. When did God decide to create Adam? The answer is never, but as all inconsistent stories go, it doesn't matter what messed up who and when. All it matters is you feel good about it.

iGamer
post Today, 09:06 AM

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QUOTE(Spear2 @ Dec 10 2017, 10:15 PM)
God killed innocent kids and babies and you feel morally good and great about that. But He taketh what He giveth. So God is above morality but yet He loves His children and deliberated when He was about to kaboom the entire city. What a nice inconsistent story.

So God has been lonely for eternity and then decided He was lonely and created Adam. When did God decide to create Adam? The answer is never, but as all inconsistent stories go, it doesn't matter what messed up who and when. All it matters is you feel good about it.
*
They have twisted morality and also lack of reasoning ability. They claimed the whole city was corrupted beyond redemption. Did every LBGT converged to form those cities? I don't think so, what ever vice that city has developed over time, where's god when the vice is not yet pandemic level? So god waited until whole city is filled with vice so it's easier to wipe out the whole city doh.gif Of course I don't the story is true. laugh.gif
zamorin
post Today, 09:27 AM

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QUOTE(shaniandras2787 @ Dec 10 2017, 02:51 PM)
Religion did not mess up my morality, in fact if you see it in the chronology order, since you mentioned morality, is LGBT right in the right course of nature? Was what happened in S&G intended to be the normal course of nature? Surely, the answer cannot be a resounding "Yes!". God did not create Steve, Bill or Jack but He created Eve.
The answer is a resounding "Yes!" What is wrong with LGBT? It is against nature? Homosexuality is controlled by genetics specifically Xq28, Xq28 is a chromosome band and genetic marker . It occurs naturally in every living species from lions to goats to insects and you call that unnatural?

That is moral corruption and it comes from the Bible and your ignorance of science.

Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg

This post has been edited by zamorin: Today, 09:27 AM
puchongite
post Today, 10:39 AM

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QUOTE(iGamer @ Dec 11 2017, 09:06 AM)
They have twisted morality and also lack of reasoning ability. They claimed the whole city was corrupted beyond redemption. Did every LBGT converged to form those cities? I don't think so, what ever vice that city has developed over time, where's god when the vice is not yet pandemic level? So god waited until whole city is filled with vice so it's easier to wipe out the whole city doh.gif Of course I don't the story is true. laugh.gif
*
It's a disgrace to humanity that people can be warped to accept such twisted morality and still feel damn good about it.
Spear2
post Today, 10:54 AM

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QUOTE(iGamer @ Dec 11 2017, 09:06 AM)
They have twisted morality and also lack of reasoning ability. They claimed the whole city was corrupted beyond redemption. Did every LBGT converged to form those cities? I don't think so, what ever vice that city has developed over time, where's god when the vice is not yet pandemic level? So god waited until whole city is filled with vice so it's easier to wipe out the whole city doh.gif Of course I don't the story is true. laugh.gif
*
There was never a time recorded in real history that an entire city was corrupted. This charge did not emanate from a fair assessment but rather a likely fabrication from probably a few incidents of vice and fornication. To motivate the soldiers to cleanse the city for whatever purposes, a justification was given. Why this is the most likely scenario? Because as history has shown countless of times, it is common to hold the moral high ground when the soldiers faced the enemy with the burning moral rage to butcher them and cut out their gut.

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