Hi, i'm just curious as i never done any heroic instance yet. Can a fury or arms spec warrior be able to tank in there ? So far i've been tanking with arms spec till arca without any problem but I heard heroic usually more mobs per pull or something and hit harder. So is there any non prot spec warrior find it doable for heroic instance ?

Lol! Good luck! Ok I admit i'm a mage and i'm super squishy.. But get this, in a normal Shattered Halls, I get hit for 4k to 6k on bosses. In heroic Shattered Halls, I get hit for 24k crit the highest record..

I mean as mage, as long as the mobs don't come runnin towards us, we're fine with your spec.. But after 2 frostbolts and they start runnin, there's somethin wrong..

Yes, they hit WAY harder.. Doable but hard.

This post has been edited by Aesthetica: Apr 6 2007, 01:21 PM

1 word, crushing

Just go into heroic Botanica and tank the 1st patrol, or tank the Bog Overlord in heroic Steamvaults. It might cost you 2g, but at least you know where you stand in regards to tanking viability

i stopped taking in non-prot warriors in my run since lvl65-67 ish. good luck.

Being casual these days, I've not done that many heroic instances. Having said that, the ones that i have done and completed - Ramparts, Slave Pens, Steamvaults have all been challenging (but fun) and would definitely been a lot more difficult if i weren't prot specced.

Currently working on getting my ass in gear to attempt the trials of Naaru in the next couple of weeks.

This post has been edited by Kidicarus: Apr 6 2007, 03:07 PM

spend like 21 points in prot (defiance, toughness, imp sheild block, last stand and concussion blow) you should do fine liao

er.. priest hate non proct tanker.. well i can still bring u in another pontetial customer i'll intro to BS vendor soon

This post has been edited by Gladys: Apr 6 2007, 04:21 PM

Yaa doable but your party will hate you. You will suck like a RM20 chicken and lose aggro like gila when they start nuking and maybe wipe the party a few times. The healers will hate you. The DPSes will hate you. And you will learn some new swear words coming over Ventrilo with your name in between the words.

'WTF??!! *@%&!%^$%& Gaz you %#@%@& lrn2tank #^!*^@*"

You cant help it, lah. All those new talents and turbo-charged gear in TBC are one dimension better than anything before and warrior threat generation in the expansion did not increase proportionately to match the increased DPS all the other classes are putting out. You need ALL the help you can get to hold aggro. That means taking protection talents.

I only ever did one heroic with my PVP build 41/17/3 and it was very rough. Learn from others' misfortune...

This post has been edited by limsk: Apr 6 2007, 06:05 PM

don't try tanking. not worth the pain and agony. everyone stops tanking with arms/fury warrior starting SL onwards. usually picked up as DPS.

ur a good priest lol

=edit=
edited for awesome emoticon

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Apr 6 2007, 07:19 PM

not crushing leh ..
WIPING ~!

You only get crushing blows from mobs 3 levels above you. From what i can tell, the level cap for heroics is 72, and therefore it's theoretically impossible to get a crushing blow in a heroic instance.

that's about right!~

dont need crushing when they can still crit ur face for awesome

What's a crit? Haven't seen one of those in a while

Honestly though, normal hits from heroic trash (or equally interesting yet non-epic-dropping non-bosses as blizzard likes to call them) are bad enough esp if you end up pulling too many by accident which is what usually gets me killed.

yeah, you die before you can even say "adds!" on vent lmao.

or things like 2 defenders landing crits/crushing or high dmg range at the same time is just awesome.

oh hey hey how about dodge/miss/parry/resist/reflect (i have NEVER encountered a mob that RESISTS my stuns until i went heroics lmao, what, they starting to get orc/priest/warropr mobs talented now?) lolololololololololololol

and at the end of the day, excluding those stupid badges, you generally get blues to be d/e'ed...

I'm usually lolling when i call for a sap (esp when the rogue doesn't have imp. sap)

i run a lot of heroics without imp sap, very hard, but doable...

pre-sprint -> distract -> sap and before sap registers 180deg. spin and run, you will be sapping the air behind ur target (very cool) and before they can hit you, ur already 10ish yd++ away from them, but, if possible, evasion and clos after sap is done.

if tank/cc unable to peel all of them off you, vanish. and GOTO the healer, and cheapshot -> +cp -> kidneyshot so ur healer dont get 1-2 shotted.

hehe it's hard yah.. which is why i'm usually lolling. Usually a simple bloodrage + demoralising should be enough to get the mobs off the rogue, the trouble is having the rogue survive the first few seconds of the pull. PW: Shield before the sap usually helps for this.

Sad to say, nowadays, i'm leaning more towards using a good hunter for CC as opposed to a rogue.

PWS hardly helps
unless mob dont crit and you only take a hit or 2. i mean, when they are gonna crit the rogue's balls off for 9-13k... with him having only some 7-9k hp... you will need some insane pws to have him live through it lol.

and not sad at all, hunter always had better cc than a rogue with just a simple fact that they can reapply cc during fight while a rogue's sap can only be done on out of combat targets. the ONLY straightforward thing a rogue is able to offer a group is raw dps, if he fail to achieve that part (say mage out dps him), then there is no reason to keep him in group so to speak, which is why a lot of people dislike getting rogues into their group (they are also the worst mana sponges) unless they are able to prove their worth.

Blood furnance last boss few pulls before it .. hits a clothie for 15k
lol
imagine wat a fury warrior would get when hes not in protection stance..

and if u sorry to say lah

if u have 2 mage 1 shadowpriest 1 priest 1 tank
u can preety much do most of the heroics liow

aleast 2cc

but rogues cc cant work that well lah .. sad to say ..
this cant sap that cant sap ..
makes them so suck .. plus when mobs hit them
sure die one ..

stacked classes leads to limited functionality and shitty loot distributions

Well, i never had warrior go in a grp as dps so far...well, least not in all the grps i'm in before. As i said, i'd tanked up to arcatraz without a single wipe. Quite relaxing if your grp know what to do, just not sure about heroic. But judging from all the replies surely its a challenge to do heroic with pvp spec, heh. Anyway, thanks for the tips and feedback on my questions. (Gonna try once on pvp spec with heroic first, I just wanna feel it at least once, haha...)

Its ok, laa. Its something that has to be exprienced yourself to make an impression, especially if you've never had trouble tanking before TBC. Try heroic Blood Furnace or heroic Ramparts first - those are the mildest among the heroics.

Let us know how it turned out, should be an interesting post at least hahaha...

This post has been edited by limsk: Apr 8 2007, 11:16 AM

Heroic slave pens is supposed to be the easiest, yet with 67% mitigation I get smacked around for 800-1000 by trash mobs. Pain!

Defenders... waah, have to ask frost mage to kite one fella, cos if I tank two I get hit for around 3k each time, no way healer can keep up. While kiting, if one spell reflect up, suddenly the mage frost bolted himself and then he gets one-shotted by the defender.

The ideal group setup here seems to be warrior, rogue, mage x2 and shaman. The rogue is great simply because of the stun on MC mobs and crippling poison on defenders.

i used to have hunter or mage kite one, but lately, i just bring TWO good healers and just tank both. you need 2 good healers for last boss anyways with its gay spray on group (if spray me or tank np)

Slave pens heroic only needs 1 good healer.

When Quagmirran does his geyser ability, have the tank taunt and use spell reflect. Totally trivializes the encounter. We don't even kill the last pack for the NR buff.

PROT rules.

taunt only last 4 sec, geyser last for close to 10ish. and the last pack for the NR buff is a joke. no matter how hard we try, once we rescue the noob elf, he will aggro the naga, and the naga rapes him, either that, or the technician's grenades aoe rape him. waste of time.

Apparently with a rogue you can bug those adds by vanishing near them when they come from the tunnel. Never tested though since we don't kill the pack.

I seem to reflect for the full duration of the geyser, even though the taunt duration is only 3 secs and geyser is like closer to 6 seconds?. Dunno, but slave pens is one of the heroic instances that my group has on farm. And it's still one of the easiest heroic bosses around.

1 of my guild hunters asked me to respec my hunter into 0/31/30 to do better in heroics.

Eventhough theres no silencing shot, that hybrid spec looks tempting for me.

oh we have it on farm too, still waiting for the midnight legs to drop, but 2 healers for that instance is still less pain staking than going it with just one for a few times, theres even once we had to replace someone out to get a 2nd healer (well he gtg anyways so no biggie)

---

Added on April 9, 2007, 2:14 pmfull marks and silencing would do better on heroics, ur purpose is to dps anyways. if trap resist or crap, with scatter and concuss, you still have a chance anyways.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Apr 9 2007, 02:14 PM

Yeah, I'm planning to try on rampart first. Think it should be the easiest heroic among all. Will let u know the result if i can get some waterfish willing to die with me in there first, hehe.

All bosses from instances are always 3 levels higher than you, be it normal or heroic, so crushing blow can still happen. For a level 70 warrior, you need 489 def to totally avoid crushing blow on you from bosses, but crits can still happen.

You can tank with fury/arm spec in heroic provided you have the tanking gear with you to achieve those stats, preferably >10K armor, >= 489 def, >15% block/parry/dodge. Otherwise i would not recommend it since you will be the burden of the group

OOOOH don't get technical with me!

Only your natural defense affects crushing blows (ie 350@lvl 70). Buffing your defense to 490 will not help you avoid crushing blows. What does affect crushing blows, is the ability of a warrior to shield block which adds +75% to his block chance. As long as parry+dodge+block>100%, you can push crushing blows off the table. See the following link http://www.wowwiki.com/Crushing_Blow

What defense does do is reduce your chance to be critted. 490 is the commonly cited defense number to become crit immune. Crits are similarly affected by a warriors ability to shield block.

Secondly, you're mistaking bosses in raid instances with bosses in standard instances. You can be crushed by those and these are identified by your user interface as Boss ???. You can tell what level normal instance bosses are by looking at your user interface. A quick glance of boss mobs in normal instances has shown that the highest level for these mobs is 72+ and therefore crushing blow mechanics do not apply to these mobs. Their crits in heroics will still hurt.

Edit: There are 2 things to consider when tanking, survivability which you can make up with gear, and threat generation. Threat generation is the tricky bit with non protection tanking. Like a poster above said, the defiance talent is almost a prerequisite for tanking considering the fact that your party member's damage will have scaled at a greater rate than a non prot warriors aggro tools = sunder, heroic strike and revenge.

This post has been edited by Kidicarus: Apr 10 2007, 03:16 PM

^^ that pretty much sums it up!
some say the number is 504 and some say it's 490, our tanks personally go about 510-ish and then stack the rest to +sta, dodge, parry etc but

Yeargh!, I also play arms warrior. I dont like prot spec & hate to become the meatshield. I kill to protect. Yeargh!

there must be some other way to get aggro

You know, I think that what Valdamor and Kidicarus has pointed out would be able to help you out. Since you cannot have improve on threat generation via the prot talent tree, the only other way to do it is to gear up to what they just mentioned.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Aggro

I was having a read at the above link as well to understand more about aggro and threat. There may / may not be some moves that are not used by warriors because they do not have a high threat generation. Probably a good idea to look into that area.

I know a Fury Warrior on my server who tanks heroic instances. The only one he mentioned that he has problems is Heroic SV. But I presume it'll be a matter of time before he can do it, once he gears up for it.

Know his name? Would be interested in spying on his gear and talents in Armory.

Conann of Aman'Thul. Not sure whether he's wearing his tanking gear though but this is the dude.

Hmmm...and as for a tanking pally, I went with Romie into Shadow Labs last Sunday. Was interesting.

This post has been edited by myremi: Apr 10 2007, 09:13 PM

hopefully that interesting you meant is in a good way.

pally tanks killed my inner child

---

Added on April 10, 2007, 9:42 pmoh yea myremi and few others:
Feint -1050 (rank 6) <-- reason why any rogues who feint should /wrists
your 2-3 autoattacks hits put you back up as if you never feinted. lol!

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Apr 10 2007, 09:42 PM

yeah, it was interesting in a good way. pugging at vorpil. amazingly we survived with a gimped ret pally and frost mage. me healing and another friend fire mage. and amazingly, we survived for 5 blinks. wah! it was south south north south north. works alrite when low on DPS.

wait... what?

which bit u find it hard to understand?

ahhh just remembered... labs...

but uh we just have 1 dps add, and have vorpil stand still and take it... only blink once and hes already at 10-30% hp on avg... (thats back when i was farming SL for my daggers and pants and majority green/blue)

heroic havent tried yet cuz i wanna get my legs from SP or anywhere my tank wanna go cuz he havent got an epic piece yet and hes our kara MT... sad.

Then you're in a very good group with major DPS. I've not seen him go down during the 2nd blink. The best is the 3rd blink. And we still had

The scary bit is that many below average players are getting keyed easily for Heroics Shadow Labs. *shudder*

And when a resto druid in tree form is the 2nd runner getting out of the hellfire, you know things are already looking bad.

Wouldn't it be easier to become a Master Smith for one type of weapon and get the epic recipe?

lol fast roots eh?!?!

afaik, for rogues you have to be a mace rogue to ultilize BS recipe, so QQ for us. no daggers/claws from bs if im not mistaken

of course. trees hate fire, u know.

I thought we were taking about your MT? And not u?

---

Added on April 11, 2007, 12:50 pmsuddenly thinking about it, i remembered one Prot Warrior saying that he went to be a Master Swordsmith and made Fireguard ( http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=34535 ). Looking at the recipe, looks pretty cheap to make. Guess it's the lvling of BS that can be a pain.

This post has been edited by myremi: Apr 11 2007, 12:50 PM

eh i remember Conann is a forum troll?

ohh read wrongly, umm if its for warriors, then it doesnt matter too much, for weapons, you get king's defender anyways from chess.

he went silent when TBC came out and now is back about a month ago. i only know him coz one of my ex-guildies team up with him now and again when they were both leveling to level 70. i've occasionally gone with them into instances as well.

he now more geared and keyed up at me at lvl70. more time to play the game.

and forum trolls doesn't necessarily mean that they're not good players. for all of Conann's anctics in the forums, he's a very good Fury Warrior.

Checked out Conann's sheet at Armory - he is 45 Fury/ 16 Protection so he does have some protection talents at least. He must be pretty darned good skillswise if he's tanking heroics without problems since his gear isn't particularly inspiring (mix of greens and blues).

hehe but if my character has that name, i'd probably macro a "Crush your enemies, see them driven before you..." on my beserker rage.

This post has been edited by limsk: Apr 11 2007, 06:59 PM

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limsk : i don't know him that well other than pugging with him for a few groups. skillwise, he is still one of the better warrior players i've teamed with for awhile.

heemee : your point? other than a flood full of text.

nah, i always thought that charc was used to troll forums, never thought he was serious about leveling it.

Romie is a great paladin, so are the members of resilience.... eh how come he's in not steamboat now?

there's no point oO
i just thought i'd impart this great piece of ascii art upon fellow malaysian WoW-ers

but on topic , pally tanks are awesome at tanking 5 mans heroic or non
u just need to know the good ones from the bad ones

and reason for prot tanking (warrior)is not just the mitigation but additional threat generated
shield slam is if im not wrong 1 of the highest threat generating moves ?
sure you might be able to survive tanking as arms spec etc etc , but your party will not be able to dps to their maximum potential , which in return makes the run take longer = every one gets pissed
so all in all , depends on your priority i guess

Surprisingly in-game, he's a pretty decent guy. Or maybe coz of my sexy voice in TS. Haha!

That you'll have to check with him directly. I don't get involve with those raiding guilds. With my occasional lag spikes and disconnection, I didn't think it was a good idea to join those hardcore raiding skilss, especially when I'm playing a healing class.

Since this is a question on heroic instance. Wanna ask What to expect in heroic BM? How is it harder than the normal? TY

yes it is, shield slam is basically a warrior's best threat generation move.

By quite a bit. Its just a huge dps raceeeeee. A dps warrior for once is viable here with a shaman. No need for ccs for burst dmg thru everything.

And for all u warriors asking about viability of specs, its sad Blizzard forces u either to be PVP oriented or PVE oriented. It all boils down to which part of the game you wanna experience more.

If ur looking to do heroics constantly and being a tank in 10 n 25man raids start speccing prot. DONT gimp ur group or raid n try make arms/fury viable. (I've tried it believe me trying to tank slave pens in fury - takes an hour to complete it, compared to the usual 40mins run.)

You're there to optimise the group/raid efficiency, nothing else. Good mitigation/avoidance - lesser healing = more love from healers. Superior threat - More dps from dpsers = faster dead boss = less healing. lol. If u dun enjoy this, grab a pally n do 2v2 arena.


Prot - PVE tank
Fury - PVE dps
Arms - Arena Hero

u type so long still dono wat is it with heroic bm.. all i see is arena proct fury arms.. alamak.

<deleted stupid joke that sounded better that it reads>

This post has been edited by limsk: Apr 13 2007, 09:19 AM

i basically only type one line - By quite a bit. Its just a huge dps raceeeeee. A dps warrior for once is viable here with a shaman. No need for ccs for burst dmg thru everything.

lol. I think heroic bm is pretty hard too and more of a gear check. 1 very good healer 3 strong dps 1 tank. I normally go in wif 1 druid, 1 ele shaman, 1 shadow priest, 1 lock and myself. a very stacked group imo but it does the job.