Have this problem only during heavy rain and hired some skylight workers to apply acrylic sealant on existing sealant on all the windows sill external and internal but it is still happen. Anyone experience this before and if you have any recommended contractor that can fix this once for all.



This post has been edited by echoesian: Jun 26 2017, 10:04 AM

You stay condo ah?

You have to apply the sealant outside instead of inside.

DIY cost you less than RM10. The sealant itself only around RM4.9

Fenestration leaks, quite common. Techniques used in building them are important esp where it sits. If there's no step down edge, unless a high quality waterproof sealant is applied on the outside, the water will eventually seep in on account of the weathering from the heat of the sun.

The workers applied the sealant both inside and outside. But they did not remove the old existing sealant, they just applied on top of the existing one, it looks ok but not sure it is effective enough. I stay at landed house, 3 storey it's hard for me to DIY unless I have scaffolding to access to the top floors.

Where is the area that the water seep in? Is it on the window sill? But the acrylic sealant already applied on all surrounding window sill. How do I solve this problem ?

From the look of it, the water leak is not direct from window sill.
It look more like water absorb through the wall from the crack of the sealant due to poor workmanship of the sealing.

How is externally look like? Have to see outside. Sometime water slip in from the aluminium, rubber and also from the base like "halcyon27" mentioned the base not angle properly.

I would think a good external paint will solve the problem..

It would prevent the water seepage into the wall and the window ledge would prevent water ponding..

This is a top angle from one of the window


Bottom side

The window concrete surrounding wall has been painted with waterproof liquid before painted with Dulux weathershield. It is also done with a ledge to avoid water ponding on the window sill.

If the wall-aluminium frame already properly seal, next possible is the rubber seal or the aluminum L join, and to proper apply silicon sealer have to remove the old sealer before apply. Is better to have one single piece rubber.

If on top of the glass have anymore space (wall), maybe can consider put a 2-3ft awning

Wrong thread

This post has been edited by nexona88: Jun 26 2017, 11:56 PM

I suspect its an installation problem..

if the weather proofing paint and silicon sealant at the window is proper there is no way water can leak inside..

There must be a gap somewhere or a spot where the paint or silicon is missing..

Admittedly, even my previous and current condo has been plagued by this issue. All I have researched is that it all boils down to how construction methods conform to correct building science where windows and walls join are concerned.

Seepage resistant construction and installation site preparation with proper sealing materials are crucial in that order. If the design is flawed, no amount of sealing will prevent seepage.

If there's any contact of anyone who can help reconstruct the windows and implement these but I don't know how much it costs. See here for sealants and joint site sealing material and page 20 onwards here on common joint site failures.

This post has been edited by halcyon27: Jun 27 2017, 06:35 PM

An external paint can prevent seepage?

My understanding..

An external paint is a water resistance/water proofing surface coating so i suppose it does prevent water from seeping into the surface.

You need to check exactly where it leak. When rain, check the leaking inside and outside. The leak might come from the aluminium frame corner joint.

By this way, you can find a solution to solve the leak.

When using silicon to seal the leak between windows and base, do not use normal silicone. Use the caulk type silicone. Normal silicone can't last long.

External paint is a weatherproof material, is not a water proofing material.
Same theory as you do not use a weather proof camera at swimming pool.

I agree..

However the application of the paint is for water seepage on a vertical outdoor wall.. which is a short period of water splash and open ventilation to air dry..

Not a swimming pool.. you will need a membrane layer for this type application ..

There is a big difference of applications in your examples..

Hello @echoesian,

If the leaks is from the aluminium joints, you may use our BM TDXP to seal the tiny joints.

Thanks

Except for the bathroom floor, the cement are not mixed with waterproofing material because the water would just slips down the wall. However if the water is trapped, it will seep into the cement and wet the other side. So, acrylic paint will prevent this this from happening.

Looks like the paint on external wall is not really well applied. What kind of paint was that? Maybe cut cost application with no undercoat

Of course swimming pool and external wall is different in nature.
What I am trying to explain is the different of 'weather proof' and 'water proof'. And external paint is fall under weather proof category.

Ok..

Yes, they used this xtraseal 100% neutral silicone SN-501 to seal those aluminium frame to frame joints - http://www.xtraseal.com/tds/1412560702TDS%...e%20Sealant.pdf

And they used this xtraseal acrylic sealant MC800 to apply on window cement sill and the frame joint - http://www.xtraseal.com/tds/1738015279TDS%...x%20Sealant.pdf

The house is subsale which already have painted. The contractor applied two layers of Dulux Weathershield on top of the existing paints without any primer or sealer.

A so-called waterproofing specialist contractor suggested the following with quoted 3k+ for 14 windows with 5 years warranty, to do something like on the pic:

1) Apply waterproof cement on the window frame cement surrounding
2) Apply waterproof liquid on the surrounding which penetrate into the window frame holes
3) Repaint

Is this reliable? He is using this waterproof cement type instead sealant/silicone because he said the sealant/silicone does not last long in our climate



This post has been edited by echoesian: Jul 3 2017, 12:00 AM

Wah... Looks so extensive. I dunno how many windows are there to be sealed to say if the 3k+ is worth the cost, but it should be working since they are willing to warranty for 5 years... I guess

That's assuming the window anchoring point design is seepage resistant which is unknowable since neither he nor you witness it during construction. Seepage due to mismatch of sealant is the current symptom combined with a seepage path as obviously seen inside.

If building management have the construction details for the windows by the original installer, perhaps an experienced window installer that specialises in weathering issues could scrutinise if it's ok or there's a design flaw against wind driven intrusion and take a best shot approach to remediate but even that does not guarantee anything. It takes a lot of know how to make a tight building envelope and windows is a common place where this issue occur. At least with dry area balcony doors, weather strips can easily DIYed by home owner.

The only way to ensure it's reliable is to have it rebuild but that assumes management will allow due to high winds and the risk of things like furniture and people being sucked out.

Assuming the most probable outcome, it will be a gamble. Acrylic is not a good choice for sealing due to weathering altering it's elastic properties over time ie cracking. It may not endure our weather pattern. See the Sika pdf URL I attached above in my earlier reply.

This post has been edited by halcyon27: Jun 28 2017, 06:04 PM

Seriously?


rm3k+ just to apply a weather/water proofing seal around the perimeter of a single 6'x4' window?

For 10 windows.

Anyone can recommend a reliable contractor to repair this problem ?

Apparently, the contractor method is to take off the old sealants and apply waterproof cement + liquid instead of sealant because he said sealant/silicone does not last long in our climate. Is this true? I don't really believe, if such a case then many new houses from developer would have the same issue?

This post has been edited by echoesian: Jul 3 2017, 12:02 AM

He could be right. Silicone is likely used where weathering is avoided. The type suited is elastomeric sealant as described here and a good example is Sikaflex.

This post has been edited by halcyon27: Jul 3 2017, 08:42 AM

So is it using waterproofing cement better than applying sealant ?

My take is it's a combination of "both and" rather than "either or". Waterproofing cement is to prevent seepages into the walls and forms the foundational layer even before the window frame is installed. Sealant is on the joints and flashing where it meets the wall etc.

Sealant has many types depending on application. Use the correct one is where it counts.

Waterproofing cement is probably like a waterproof primer coat and works best even before window frame is laid.

Like I mentioned before, a seepage resistant design helps which makes the application of cement coat and sealant effective due to a layered protection approach.

This post has been edited by halcyon27: Jul 3 2017, 10:49 AM

So, meaning that they used the wrong sealant? - http://www.xtraseal.com/tds/1738015279TDS%...x%20Sealant.pdf ?

Google "fenestration caulk sealant" and read up a bit then compare the types available. Here's one example.

This post has been edited by halcyon27: Jul 3 2017, 08:46 PM

I'm dilemma now not sure which contractor to choose from. Most of the contractors recommend to replace the sealant with better sealant. One of them is recommending replacing sealant with waterproof cement and liquid.

Go back to your pictures again and verify if the frame sits lowers than the outside. Mine was like that. Hence eventually after even a year or two the leaks came back. Installation defect from day one. West facing facade experience the harshest sun. Hence the weathering rate is accelerated. Read up first based on what I shared esp the pdf. You can decide the best course of action from there. But expect periodic maintenance as this is something that won't go away even in well designed ones, sealants/caulk eventually have to be stripped and reapplied.

This post has been edited by halcyon27: Jul 5 2017, 05:21 PM

The frame does not sit lower than outside. So, applying waterproof cement to plaster the frame tightly does not make sense? Still using sealant is the best choice?

Reviewing the pictures, one of them being a full height fixed glass, that one seems to be. Anyhow, get more varied opinion first and resist the temptation to fix it fast. What I've experienced as well as learnt from others sharing is that the leaks more often than not, never happen at the spot of occurrence. They originate elsewhere. This is common with roof leakages that is seen dribbling down the walls rather than from a misaligned tile or a cracked one which is easy to spot. And they come back during a heavy downpour even though it was 'fixed'.

Consult a facade specialist as to what type of product they use to weather seal. Not the brand but the type based on chemical composition or silicone, acrylic, PU, hybrid, etc. Which can stand UV, which can be painted over, which one can flex with movement from wind or pressure and still retain its shape without leakage, resistant to common failure at the joints due to sagging under its own weight or changing chemical composition that varies it's sealing performance.

The best way is to simulate a rain and diagnose. Probing with a slightly pressurised hose (not too strong but those with a twist adjusted pressure nozzle used in the garden or washing up on the yard) in situ should be able to reveal since not all the time we catch the leak during the rain. This is way more accurate since one can control the test and observe the results.

This post has been edited by halcyon27: Jul 6 2017, 09:08 AM

Btw, this sealant being neutral cure is excellent for kitchen and bathroom esp sealing the joint and gap around stainless steel sinks.

This post has been edited by halcyon27: Jul 6 2017, 01:47 PM

you sure the leak is from the window?

one project i worked on before the leak is at the window. but in the end actually the leak is like a meter above the window. the contractors drill tons of holes into the wall surrounding the leak and shoot some sorta foam type sealant thing that is supposed to squeeze through all those gaps and stuff. in the end all kaotim, no more leak. but it took a long time and lots of lobang.

PU. It expands then they cut out excess and apply cement to seal I suppose.

Look up Nippon Flexiseal

ahhh yes. this thing. was damn messy. a lot of clean up work and scraping off excess. but in the end settle.

This is a membrane not paint.

The thing is by right proper window installation would have resolved this using a combination of water seal membrane (mostly EPDM type), raised "I joint" profile where windows is installed. Window frame sits on the "I joint" profile with the membrane touching the external side of the I (faces out). There could be sealant applied to make it water tight esp where the membrane on all corners meet and also between membrane and I joint. A cementitious filler is applied into the remaining gap before general cement screed. The other end pieces are added with the appropriate weather durable sealant and flash joint pieces of any are added or a weather seal paint coat is applied before painting over. Bottom part must be able to drain and is sloped.

The skill of the installer is crucial otherwise it is as good as not having these things. Also is the window frame becomes disjointed during installation or after years of operation and if the outer sealant in contact with it is insufficient to accommodate the stretch caused by it, a leakage path is introduced.

After hearing all this and reading it from the window installation and leakage specialist what with all that possible failures caused by sealant failures (contributed by anything from age to joint failure due to weathering and movement), you can surmise this will be an ongoing issue.

I think I would try out a contractor and supply the MS Polymer Xtraseal 601 to apply.

I have the same problem, my window frame is “tearing”

hey guys, reading this and i have a similar issue. can anyone recommend a contractor?