Hi bro zanness,
The effect of the OSAS doctrine is that many continue in sin, which is why I refer to it as the "continuing in sin" doctrine.

I realize the OSAS adherents don’t recommend sin, they just say sin doesn’t impact our salvation, which is not supported by scripture.

Of course to be fair, OSAS proponents don’t believe that we should take it as a license to sin, BUT just by taking the position of “Once Saved Always Saved”, you’re by default, taking a stance for everything that OSAS stands for, which includes continuing in sin after salvation. Do you get my point?

If you say we can’t lose our salvation, then why is the Bible replete with warnings like:
“And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.” - Ephesians 4:30

OSAS proponents like to use this verse in their favour, to say that we can’t lose our salvation, because we are “sealed” & therefore it is irrevocable.

What they ignore is the initial part of this verse. Why bother to not grieve the Holy Spirit since no matter how much we grieve Him, we can’t lose our salvation? Doesn’t make sense right?

There must be a stern warning here. So what happens if you ignore this warning and grieve the HS?
"But they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit; therefore he turned to be their enemy, and himself fought against them."  - Isaiah 63:10
Wow! God will actually consider you his enemy! Unless of course you say the above verse doesn’t apply to NT believers.
Also, the OSAS proponents only quote the above verse Ephesians 4:30, as if there are no conditions attached, but never the continuation of that passage which says a lot of things :
31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
5 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

- Ephesians 4:31-5:17

See? Listed sooo many conditions that require obedience. It’s a conditional security.

Now if you’re to ask me, so at which point will I become unsaved/lose my salvation?

I can honestly tell you, only God knows. Like I said to you before on another post, you need to study the doctrine of sin (Hamartiology).

Many in our hour teach and sincerely believe that the most one could ever lose through sin after initial salvation, is their joy of salvation, fellowship with the Father, spiritual rewards, position in the kingdom, etc.

But is it true?

Jesus, however, taught otherwise! The Lord taught the Prodigal’s alive spiritual condition degenerated to dead, the same as for everyone before initial salvation.

I explained in one of my post to UW about the prodigal son. Go look it up. It can’t mean physically dead because he wasn’t. That means the verse referred to spiritual death!
How about another warning from the Bible:
"But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own lust and enticed. Then, when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth DEATH. Do not be deceived, my beloved BROTHERS."

- James 1:14-16

What does it mean by death? Spiritual death! Why? Because all of mankind whether unbeliever or believer, will die a physical death. So it refers to spiritual death. 

This verse is definitely meant for believers because it says brothers.
Too many of you (especially our resident preacher) confuse the inadequate English translation of "works" (normal, healthy good deeds, which are a manifestation of having authentic Grace / faith) with "works of the law" (blood sacrifices in the OT, not a manifestation of Grace).

"But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, ADD TO YOUR FAITH virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is short-sighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to CONFIRM YOUR CALL AND ELECTION, for if you do these things you will never fall; for so an ENTRANCE WILL BE ABUNDANTLY PROVIDED FOR YOU into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." – 2nd Peter ?:??

See? We are to add to our faith!

Just because I believe you can lose your salvation does not mean I believe in salvation by Law.

The Scripture clearly teaches that salvation is by works "A man is justified by works and not by faith alone" - James 2:24

We are not saved by works of the Law, but we are certainly saved by works.

That is why the Lord Jesus over and over gave people instructions such as "Repent" and "Be Baptized" and "Keep my commands".

Why would the Lord Jesus say these things if they were not necessary?

"Eternal security" is a heresy propagated by Calvin and the Reformers (who denied many books of the Bible!)

What such men do is to pull a few phrases out of Romans or Galatians which rightly teach against Law-keeping  .

But they take these phrases out of the Bible, preaching them in isolation from the rest of Scripture, and create a Gospel of "salvation by intellectual faith".

They conclude that since we're not saved by the Law then we're not saved by any kind of works at all!

But the Bible categorically refutes such heresy in the most plain terms. The only verse of the Bible where the words "faith alone" appear is James 2:24.

Even then, James 2:24 agrees with non-OSAS 

"You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." - James 2:24

See?

If you still accuse me of being a legalist or works salvation, you’re completely missing the mark. Legalists & works salvation people don't even believe in Jesus in the 1st place.

Wokehh, Thank You & God Bless 

Hi UW,
i agree with this  . So if there are no contradictions in scripture, which i believe there aren't, that means there's something wrong with our interpretation of scripture.

That would also mean either YOU are wrong, or I AM wrong.

Now in response to the few lines you've left me from your above post, yes, i agree a renewal of mind should take place. Yes, it will happen if we submit our will to the HS. But not if we choose to walk away from the faith.
I too understand your concerns:

" True believers can have a full assurance of their eternal salvation (1 John 5:11-13). This would be impossible if we could lose our salvation.[1]

. . . if you believe that you can lose your salvation whenever you cease to believe or fall into sin, then assurance is beyond reach. That is why I tried to establish in an earlier chapter the doctrine of the security of the believer. If we are not sure that our relationship with God is eternally secure, it is very difficult to grow in the Christian life. "

Am i correct?
Anyway, at the risk of going off-tangent here, lets stick back to OSAS.

You believe Christians can't go back to being unsaved & i'm saying believers can fall from grace. That is all there is to it! The 2nd seed of the parable of the sower is a bullet proof point.
I have a suspicion that your understanding of the words "eternal security" is wrong.  You could/might have jumbled up eternal security & eternal salvation.

There are verses in the Bible that are written in the present tense, and most are not aware of the implications.

You can even check these whole verses with the Greek or Hebrew if you fear them losing their original meaning.

Here is an excerpt :
What Does 1 John 5:13 Really Say?

Many people who base their salvation assurance on 1 Jn. 5:13 are unaware that it refers only to those who have a present-tense belief in Jesus!

Please notice verse 13 from Young’s Literal Translation:

These things I did write to you who are believing[26] in the name of the Son of God, that ye may know that life ye have age-during, and that ye may believe in the name of the Son of God.

This important truth about the word believing automatically changes the meaning that we should have of this often-cited passage.

The truth is, this passage offers salvation assurance only to those who presently are believing in Jesus.
He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life (1 Jn. 5:12, NIV).

Please note this verse does not say, he who had the Son, but has the Son has life, which is also present tense!

With the present tense still in mind, John repeated the same truth, but this time from the negative, “he who does not have [present-tense] the Son of God does not have life”
[end excerpt]
Put it another way, eternal security is true, when i finally get to heaven. then it's forever & ever. Eternal in that sense. But while we're still on the Earth, a very real spiritual battle is still on-going for our souls.

There are many danger verses in the Bible telling us to be careful of spiritual negligence. I can actually reconcile all the Grace verses + these other verses easily from an anti-OSAS POV.

On the other hand, OSAS proponents can only accept the GRACE verses but sweep the other verses under the rug to make their doctrine fit.
There are many examples in the Bible too. Demas for instance. Demas left the ministry and went back to the world. Apostasy is a very real fact of life. 
Anyway, i can already observe that the majority of those in this fellowship are Calvinistic at heart. Some to a lesser degree. Some more. I guess i'll just have to leave you be 
But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will. - 2 Timothy 2:23-26
https://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/getsaved.htm

You know what is so hard about engaging you? You're slippery as an eel!

No wonder there are so many fellas in /k that label you as putar halim.

And all these while, i thought they hate Christians, hence their natural reaction towards you. 
Strawman argument no.1 :

Nobody is puking on the precious blood of Christ. On the other hand, i'm puking on your easy believism teachings.

You hyper-grace preachers nauseate me.

So don't try to place words into my mouth 

What most people get wrong is that Salvation is something granted to us when we stand before Jesus after having sanctified our lives.

The Bible says, purify yourselves, strive, run the race, bear fruit. Sanctification happens only when working in concert with the grace of God, which is power to walk righteously.

This easy believism only considers God's grace as unmerited favor.

They miss the power part. Paul says it best.

"If you by the Spirit, put to death the deeds of the flesh, you shall live." - Anazao is a Greek word meaning revive or live again.

We are to die to the flesh, not walk in it. We are to use the power of the Holy Spirit to kill our old nature.

This whole salvation process is about being transformed into the likeness of Jesus. And we won't make it if we look like Satan.

When the Bible says Jesus did it all on the cross, it means He gave us everything we need to be able to be saved.

The forgiveness of sins was accomplished and the empowerment to live a Holy life came when Jesus resurrected and ascended, because the Holy Spirit was sent.

All Jesus asks is that we obey the Spirit. You probably already understand these things, but I typed it out for the benefit of the whole conversation.
At least zanness, while he chooses to ignore the verses supporting my views, throws Grace & Salvation verses at me in bundles.

The Scriptures he "interpreted" do not teach that it is impossible for salvation to be lost. In & of themselves, they're not wrong.

As it happens with all defenders of false doctrines, he posted IRRELEVANT passages to give the illusion that he has support from the Bible.

BUT it's easy for me to understand where he's coming from. If he had wanted to understand the verses i posted, he would have realized them by now.
But you on the other hand, you will skip around the issue, refuse to respond to my verses on apostasy & backsliding, keep telling me they're not what i think they are,

& the worst part, you will somehow build up a straw man argument that i'm promoting a works salvation/legalism, self-righteousness, inference of partial Catholicism, which sin is bigger, etc.

Sometimes also leading me down the garden path & me, being silly enough to engage you in irrelevant topics, until i come to my senses once again, that you somehow

succeeded in diverting the subject at hand, & thus getting lost in translation.

On top of that, you claim to be innocent of all forms of slandering against me, when you're the one who used terms like "bersangka buruk towards you", " mis-interpreting the Bible like Mr Wong", saying what i believe in, as heresy, before i even started labelling you as a heretic, accusing me of using Bible verses to frighten ppl (i quoted Ephesians Chap 5 too, but you stopped at 4:32),  etc.

In conclusion, you don't address the main issue at all!

Chinese say " jook jii sat " . You're trying to use technicalities to call me out.
Yes, we both agree that Christians must walk in Godliness after initial salvation. But that is not the crux of the matter. You keep throwing me off. That's the problem.

You think you can hide behind your, "i believe in OSAS, but we don't encourage sin".  You still don't get it! That's why you're confused!

You don't even know where you stand. So i will put it in point form for you :
1) The doctrine of OSAS will cause people to not forsake sin, because the door will be left open to exploit it, by the very nature of the OSAS stance.

    Your "theology" allows for salvation and immorality to coexist.
2) Plenty of scripture don't support OSAS. That means, a false doctrine is being propagated! Heresy!
My issues regarding OSAS are very straight-forward & uncomplicated. Yet you wouldn't dare answer them.

This is just one of them:
We all know David was saved BEFORE he became an adulterous murderer.

Did David REMAIN SAVED AFTER he became an adulterous murderer, BEFORE Nathan confronted him for his crimes about a year later?

was David STILL saved while UNREPENTANT AFTER his moral condition changed from godly to evil???????? answer the question. yes or no?
How about verses like :

It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and turned away from the holy commandment passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.” - 2nd Peter 2:22
"The soul that sinneth, it shall die" - Ezekiel 18:20

" he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him,  if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation "
- Colossians 1:22-23

"but Christ is faithful over God's house as a son. And we are his house, if indeed we hold fast our confidence and our boasting in our hope "- Hebrews 3:6

"And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." - Luke ?:??

"because Demas, in his love of this world, has deserted me and gone to Thessalonica." - 2 Timothy 4:10

He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;  but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. - Romans 2 : 6 - 8
Any plainer than these?

Our salvation is safe in Jesus as long as we are in a saved relationship.

All of God's promises are conditional. God's love to us is unconditional, but His promises are conditional, meaning, if you do this, I will do this.

We must do our part.
I said this to you in a previous post, but you didn't address it, so here it is again :

Salvation is NOT eternal, only eternal life is eternal.

That's why it's called eternal life, not eternal salvation.

I think that gets to your problem right there.

You are using the terms "Eternal life" and "salvation" interchangeably which is the problem with you, regarding this false teaching of OSAS & that i can't get through to you. It's just sooooo hard! zanness you too!

In your brain it looks like this: "Eternal Life = Eternal Salvation.

Same thing, different name  .

You need to stop doing that in your own mind if you have any hope of expanding your understanding of the scriptures.

Therefore let me make this clear:  THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ETERNAL SALVATION.

It is not a term the Bible ever uses. It appears no where.

If your belief is that once a name is in God's Book of life, it means it can never be blotted out, then I've got bad news for you:

" The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book." - Exodus 32:33

Lastly, it's very dangerous to think that you're being persecuted for your faith, because of all the "hoo-haa" in this thread the past 6 weeks, while all these while, your doctrine might not be accurate.

Have you ever considered that possibility?

Given my conviction, i on the other hand am the one feeling persecuted by a bunch of indoctrinated Calvinists.

I made a huge mistake.
1) I actually praised you few post before because I thought you were knowledgeable and I thought you really wanted to pursue knowledge.
2) I actually praised you when I message Mr Wong.

I take everything back. You are a coward who only knows how to hide once you cannot answer my concerns that I have quoted from the King James Bible which you claim to use.
You back stab me once you have the opportunity to do so.
I seriously doubt you really want to learn anything. You are probably more interested in stroking your ego and make the claim that you use the KJV to do so. Sounds similar like this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnz325rEARk

Guess I have been really lenient in my judgement of others.

Anyways, you all make it seem as if I am even here often. You guys can do anything you want. But then remember, every single action and words will be accounted so maybe you guys should be a little careful.

That's the thing. You only debate with someone who is below your level but then you cowed out once someone higher then your level point out your mistake. I do not see you "backing" down when you were debating with Mr Wong before.

See, thats the thing. I can read people's motive just by looking at what they have wrote.

It's ok. Continue stroking your ego further. I am sure God is also impressed with this.