is the highlighted part referring to this verse,  "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins," - Hebrews 10:26

is this what u mean by Christ not dying on the cross again for our sins?
You mean God's Law makes us want to sin? So God's Law is actually bad?    God's Law is the 10 commandments?
The way out of sin is to receive more grace? Wouldn't it be logical to want to sin more & more, since God's grace will be given out anyway, EVERYTIME we fall ?
I don't mean to be rude, but the blue & green parts of your explanation makes no sense to me. I seriously catch no ball.
What about, "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: " - Revelation 2:26

Then can this verse be interpreted as : And he that does not overcome, and does not keep my works unto the end . . . . .

How about another verse, "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. " - Rev 3:5

Then can this verse be interpreted as : He that does not overcome, ......... ; and I will blot out his name out of the book of life .......

So what happens if we're unable to overcome sin until the end of our lives? Is that the definition of a failed/carnal Christian? Or completely not Christians at all to begin with?

Your name must originally be in the book, in order to be blotted out at a later time, no? The way i see it, the verses above are definitely for believers then.
How about this verse " Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. " - Luke 13:24

Criteria looks very tough to me. I'm sure it's directed at Christians/believers only.

People who are non-believers, do not even believe that there is a heaven in the first place & will naturally not put in any effort, so they definitely are not the ones striving, no?

So Christians can actually fail?
Also another 3 verses which are definitely directed at believers, because they're called church of Laodicea : Rev 3 : 14-16

14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Again, sounds like a very serious & tough criteria. 
Finally, this verse :  "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." - Matthew 7:21


Surely it's a verse directed at believers only, right? Non-believers don't even believe in God. Why would they address Him as their Lord? That means there are Christians who "doeth NOT the will"

Because the subsequent 2 verses say they cast out demons & performed miracles in God's name & also prophesy. Unless they're Hindus or whatever other religion who could do the same things la.
I clearly see 3 categories really :            1)  Unbelievers             2) Overcoming/good Christians               3) Failed/bad Christians     

How to reconcile all the above verses?
* Oh yeah, I think you forgot to address this frm my previous post : What is this "sin unto death"? Are there sins that don't lead to death? 

goood morning..

I agree that the Bible does not contradict itself. That is why i quoted many verses that are very clear cut, that do seem to indicate that there is a condition attached to Salvation. Obedience.

"If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned." - John 15:6

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. - Revelation 2:5

But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified. - 1st Cor 9:27
Isn't it obvious that the above verses are aimed at Christians who have fallen back into the world/sin/relapse/backslidden?

Why would unsaved folks even abide in the 1st place when they don't even acknowledge the existence of Almighty God?

I actually don't find the Bible contradictory at all, if i were to interpret these verses literally. They are an easy read. Not easy-believism or 'hyper-grace'. There is a very real danger to being lulled into sleep thinking you're saved.

Why would the adversary be prowling arnd like a roaring lion, seeking to devour us if we're already SAVED lock, stock & barrel? Go kacau the unsaved better la! Keep them blind continuously.

Why would we even need to bother to put on the shield, helmet, breastsplate, etc (u knw the verse) since we're home & dry already? Just go sin til kingdom come, since we're already saved, right?

If i may put this bluntly, ermmm, you're probably the one mis-intepreting the Bible IF the Bible doesn't contradict itself. Which it doesn't.

I'm not satisfied with your explanation of the verses from our previous 2 exchanges. BUT of course, it's either i misunderstand the verses or you are. We can't be both right 

From the verses i quoted (including those i quoted above), it is very clear that there ARE conditions attched.
Of course i agree with you that only Christ can save us. So no issues thr. Not buddha, Not allah, Not vishnu, Not sai baba, etc. Not by works (legalism). BUT after coming to Christ, our works are our fruit. NOT filthy rags of legalism.

Of course i also agree with " For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. " - Rom 10:13

To just say a 5 min prayer & you're saved? Wow! Did you read about the churches being jam-packed after 9/11 in the U.S. & the numbers dwindled down again after a few more weeks?

Would you not say that those people said the sinners' prayer & later went back into the world, are still saved to this day? Or will you use the typical answer, that they're never really saved to begin with?
Just to cool things down a little UW, not to insult your teachings on God's Saving Grace, but i was curious as to where you really stand, since you're the resident GRACE preacher here    simply because i'm curious :
1) What about Christians who relapsed/backslid utterly completely & never did come back? Or Christians who continue living in habitual sin (drunkenness, watch porn, etc)  Will we see them in Heaven?
Disclaimer : I'm not a fruit inspector     

2) I suspect your brand of Saving Grace as 'cheap grace'/easy believism might give license to sin, because we can't sin away our salvation ( suspicion NOT accusation. Forgive me if i'm wrong)

3) From reading the Bible, my belief is that Salvation is an on-going process. We're not done yet! We're only confirmed when we die or get raptured.

From my understanding, if you refer to the Greek & Hebrew terms on some of these verses, it's in the "past participle". Certain verses if read in context, are in the present tense. There's actually the real danger of falling away!

Of shipwrecking one's faith! Don't have to look very far. There's this transhumanist guy who was in the Faith for 20 years, but unfortunately has turned apostate.

Do these verses not apply to the failed Christian :

2 Peter 2:20-22

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. 


  
So i still see 3 categories here :

1)  Unsaved                    

2) Christians who do not overcome & have 1 foot in the world. They indulge in their sins but, still believe in Jesus Christ.              

3) Christians who walk a Holy life & stumble on occasion, but bear much fruit. In short, lived a victorious life.
* Its ok about the "sin unto death" question. Take your time  .     Even i've got 2 minds over what that actually means.

  Is it those :

a)  who straight out reject Christ (blasphemy of the HS)

  b) Christians who, lets say for e.g., commit fornication (death sin)   or use swear words (light sin, not unto death)
and my dear panqueen! sylar111 stop PM'ing me & ask what you wanna ask here. State what's your definition of the dispensation of GRACE.  I know the difference between Abraham'/Moses' time and our present age.
tagging for fun   KLboy92 

unknown warrior

do you agree with these :

https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/...ose-to-be-lost-

&





he also understands the LAW

This guy is a nobody! He was saved only back in 2014. BUT his preaching is excellent. It blesses people.
Here's a somebody :    Dr Lutzer of Moody church, Chicago    



i've listened to his sermons for 3 weeks straight on u-tube. He shares the same understanding as the 'nobody' above.
Nowhere did i imply about works Salvation. All I'm saying is that there are stern warnings in the Bible, that not striving to live a Holy life, but living like the world & yet expecting to breeze into heaven is a No-No!

The disobedient servant WILL BE cut-off!   & you are not labelled a servant unless u r under the authority of a Master. Only Christians call God their Master.

The only part that i agree with u is that it takes discipline to be a Christian.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

Hi UW,

with regards to your reply to my post on Rev 3
While the 7 ancient churches of Asia (Turkey & Greece?) were real physical places which are in ruins today, Rev 3 is still very much applicable to our modern day churches.

There's a little bit of all 7 churches in our present church actually. Some more, some less. Some gooder, some badder 

At the beginning of the book of Rev,  verse 1:1 says, " The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: "

So it is yet future (now).
To the Church in Laodicea

14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:

These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation.

15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other!

16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.  - Rev 3 : 14-16
I've presented my angle & so have you.

So anyway, i happened to watch this vid today, which only came out yesterday(!) touching on these exact verses.

So just wanna share it here :


"Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent." - Revelation 2:5

Yes I know all those verse Mr Wong.

Okay guys and to all Christians here,

How many Christians actually observe the Sabbath day? Most of you here observe them on Sunday instead of SATURDAY. Look at the Bible where it talks about Sabbath day. The Sabbath was instituted in the very beginning (Gen 2:1-3; Ex 20:11), before the nation of Israel existed. At the time, there was no religion, no covenant, no law, no nation, no Jew or Gentile and, of course, no racial distinction. Jesus said the “Sabbath was made for man” (Mk 2:27)—not only for the Jews. Remembering the Sabbath day is the fourth of the Ten Commandments. Even though they were first entrusted to the chosen people of the Old Testament, God’s commands are passed on to the chosen people of the New Testament (see Acts 7:38). The Ten Commandments have never been abolished; they still need to be kept by Christians today (Lk 18:18-20; 1 Cor 7:19; 1 Jn 5:2-3; Rev 14:12).

Baptism as well.

Even Christmas is a pagan worship celebration, Easter, palm sunday, good friday etc.
Revelation 22:18-19New King James Version (NKJV)
18 For[a] I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add[b] to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away[c] his part from the Book[d] of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Im open to meet up to share further if anyone is keen/interested. Subang Jaya.

God bless.

well well well
unknown warrior with his flawless understanding of the bible

once saved always saved
hyper grace- the bible don't even have that phrase
I appreciate your word of faith doctrine but you should know most denominations in the world don't subscribe to your 'perfect' doctrine
and there is no problem with Sabbath keeping or vice versa. bible says you shouldn't be that stumbling block

[wink] [wink] [wink] 
1) The Lord broke the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-14; Luke 13:10-17)

2) The apostles tells us that the feasts, new moons, and Sabbaths are shadows, but the reality, the body, of these shadows is Christ (Col. 2:16-17).  E.g. “You observe days and months and seasons and years; I fear for you” (Gal. 4:10-11).

3) In Acts, basically the apostles didn't event rested or in any way avoided work on the Sabbath. Rather they used the day as an evangelistic opportunity because there is where the seeking crowd are (Acts 16:13, 17:2)

??? wonder why it is bolded ... 

you know
that make you look so funny
not even one  translation translate it as hyper grace
I guess you need some.101 class on Greek
sure sure sure
only you understand what bible truly mean
spare me your word of faith lecture

I guess you can understand English?

there is no one day in a week more holy than other

if one want to keep Sabbath then perfectly fine for him and those don't keep shoudnt pass judgement
I already mention earlier but it seems that you have problem with comprehension
that word literally means exceedingly or overflow. grace is another word on front of it

by the way this word only appears once on whole bible

the essence of keeping Sabbath is to rest on that day. however in modern sense it become arguement of which day to hold the worship service
and no that is not what bible record

Charis huperperisseuo meaning grace overflow or exceedingly

Do you even understand what you are talking most times? You got into the whole "I am perfect, I am right" thought that you are blinded somewhat.

Do look into the verses I have share forth, right into the NEW TESTAMENT.

Ten Commandment is not abolished as well.

It is meant for everyone to keep.

well

Charis huperperisseuo is what I read from Romans 5:20

still no idea where hyper grace come from

You make too many assumptions. Nobody is underestimating God.
You're going in a roundabout way & trying to corner me, for whatever reason. You're very cunning. I had already stated that i don't agree with "Faith + Works"   or   "Works Salvation"

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." - 1 John 1:9

If we sin, we go to Him in sincere repentance. He will forgive. Time & again. BUT NOT when we take His Grace for granted!
I still stand by my point when i said there is a condition attached to salvation. Obedience. Is Obedience considered works, UW?

We are not saved by our works. In fact, Paul argues that even our faith is a gift from God, and therefore, there is no room for man’s boasting. Salvation is a work of God. (This sentence, we're both in agreement  )

However, salvation is not simply a work that happens when we are born again.

It is a work that continues till we are made into the full image of Christ. It will end at death or at the rapture, whichever happens first.
"Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling" - Philippians 2:12
Again “work out” has the idea of “Keep on working out to completion, to ultimate fulfillment.” 

In the NIV (since you're comfy with the NIV) this is represented by the word “continue”—continue to work out your salvation.

This means that sanctification doesn’t happen overnight.

It is a process that must be worked out till it is fully completed which ultimately won’t happen until we get to heaven. The implication of this is that we must persevere until it is complete.

Why is perseverance in working out our salvation important?

Perseverance in working out our salvation is important, because of temptations toward complacent, apathetic Christianity. ("once saved, always saved" mentality will lead to complacency)

In this process of following Christ, there will be temptations to give up the pursuit and just become spiritually comfortable and lethargic.

The church is full of those who have not “persevered” in the discipline of “working out their salvation.”

We see this with one church in particular in the New Testament—the church of Laodicea. Ooops! The lukewarm church again. Or perhaps the members of the Laodicean church are not really believers?

They just attend/pretend? 

Paul ties in fear and trembling with the effort that we must pour into our sanctification or salvation. 

He is not saying that we contribute to or add to our salvation, but we work it out as he indicated, “as you have always obeyed” so this obedience is a “working out”, due to a healthy fear of disobedience because we tremble at His Word.
Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? - Rom 6:16

I see Obedience yet again. As in the verses i had posted previously on abiding, or the branch will be cut off. Or your name be blotted out. Or lamp stand removed.

The Bible clearly states repentance is necessary. Repentance and Obedience are NOT works. There are going to be a ton of surprised individuals real soon when the rapture occurs.

Any person who believes they can keep sitting on that barstool, or commit adultery and any other sin and not repent is not obeying God.

The Bible is very clear.

No man can pluck them from my hand does not mean we cannot leave. Any person can willingly leave God. Repentance is not works. Matthew 10:22, john 15:6, 1st Corinthians 15:2, 2 Timothy 2:12, Hebrews 6:4-6

" Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy FIRST LOVE

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. " - Revelation 2:4

" But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified. " - 1 Corinthians 9:27

If Paul could say this, and we KNOW he was born again, then how can you say that our salvation can't be lost? Even Paul understood that that is not the case.

We CAN be disqualified if we don't walk in repentance and submission to the will of the Father through the leading of the Holy Spirit.

I quoted this verse before. Your interpretation is wrong! It's not about running for rewards. The GREEK translation here is "adokimos". Go look it up. Castaway(KJV) is more accurate than disqualified.  

Bible does say we can quench the HS & harden our hearts.
The truth is that while we did nothing to earn the gift of salvation, we do still have an obligation to maintain the gift, with the grace He has given us

" Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; ..." - Rom. 8:12.

We need to get over this erroneous idea that we have nothing to do, and that if we dare do anything, we are "earning" our salvation. The Bible says that only those that do God's will make it to heaven.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." - Luke 9:62

"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." - John 15:6

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils  ;" - 1 Timothy 4:1

"Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Hebrews 5:8, 9.
  AND HERE ARE YOUR FAV HEBREW VERSES :
"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." - Hebrews 6:4-6

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." - Hebrews 10:26
"But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;" Hebrews 3:13,14.

See? Unto the end! Endure! Persevere!
"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." James 1:12.

I see obedience again!

Some verses that i had already provided you with :

"For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. 2 Peter 2:21,22.
"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." - Jude 1:21.

"Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works: or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. - Revelation 2:5

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." - Revelation 2:7

"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." - Revelation 3:5

"When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby." - Ezekiel 33:18
The above verses show beyond a shadow of a doubt that we can lose our salvation. It is there in black and white. All of God's promises in the Bible are conditional.

Be an overcomer, Be obedient, endure temptation, etc

The Parable of the Sower is the best example. There are several things to note about this parable. First, only one class will finally be saved - the ones who brought forth much fruit. No such thing as disobedient Christians.

Only obedient fruitful Christians. Like i said, NOT optional.
Excerpt : What Are Some Of The Implications Of Once Saved Always Saved?

1) Since we are ‘saved’, we can do what we want. It doesn’t matter what kind of sin we commit. We are still going to go to heaven.

2) We do not need to worry about helping our brothers and sisters remain faithful. "Hey, if they are saved, they will remain saved. We do not need to be our brother’s keeper".

3) We can ignore all the Scriptures warning us to persevere to the very end. We don’t need to persevere because if we are saved, we will remain saved.

4) We have a real false sense of security.
So i still see 3 categories here :

1) Unsaved

2) Christians who do not overcome & have 1 foot in the world. They indulge in their sins but, still believe in Jesus Christ. They made a profession.

3) Christians who walk a Holy life & stumble on occasion, but bear much fruit. In short, lived a victorious life.
1 & 2 will enter into a different eternity than 3.
Now, to the million dollar question, do you believe in once saved always saved? Mr. UW?
Edited -   Hello ? ?  Hello ? !  

you better just ask him if him believe faith without work is death.
then he will take you on a roller coaster ride suggesting book of James is not written to address us.
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
James 2:14‭-‬26 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jas.2.14-26.ESV

not surprising for someone who can read hyper grace from Romans 5:20

Someone called?

interesting discussions from all of you.

for me, i am a simple christian.
i don't read the bible too often. i don't quote or memorize verses. I can't share what it is to be a living a good Christian life.

what i know is, i believe in God. and i believe in the goodness and mercy shown on me many times im my life. when i am down, when i am needing someone to talk to , or just to give me inner peace.

i believe in a lot of ways, how God works with many of us are on a personal 1 to 1 level.

i am a simple Christian Peace