Depends on who you ask.

Secular scientists want to deny God because they dont want to have to face the reality that they have to answer a supreme being who will judge them ultimately.

There are many theistic scientists who look at the same evidences and conclude that the bible is indeed reliable.

Spend some time here:

http://creation.mobi/age-of-the-earth#20110326

It is reasonable to assume that cain took one of his sisters as his wife. Adam and eve had plenty of children.

I used to think that the bible is irrelevant and boring too when I was young. It is only boring if your mind is immune to the truth inside.

You need a good bible teacher. Do you attend church?

I think both desmond2020 and unknownwarrior are not really listening to each other

Basically desmond is accusing uw of antinomianism and uw accusing desmond of legalism.

Can the both of you agree on this statement:

Salvation is by grace alone, but the law is profitable for sanctification.

If yes, then we can all move on.

In short, to walk in the Spirit and to be led by the Spirit means to submit and to be taught by the spirit.

We can read about the fruits of the Spirit in Galatians, that is what we will produce if we walk in the Spirit.

In contrary to walking in the spirit is walking in the flesh. We yield to the desires of the flesh.

All Christians already have the Spirit indwelling them, but we can choose not to be taught by Him (or yielding to the Spirit in Reformed terms)

How to be taught by the Spirit? Saturate yourself with His words.


For a more complete exposition;

https://www.desiringgod.org/messages/let-us...k-by-the-spirit

Jesus' intercessory prayer in John 17:

The word of God sanctifies us!

Theres no mystical way, but to study God's word

This post has been edited by thomasthai: Apr 17 2018, 08:28 AM

Agree.

Very touchy subject, every attempt to underdefine or overdefine the triune God in 3 persons in the past has always ended up heretic.

Sometimes we just gotta concede that not every truth in the bible is understandable.

What is your theological stance? Calvinistic?

Have you noticed that all the important doctrines in the bible are paradoxes?

Jesus is 100% man and 100% God. How can anyone be 200% of something?

God is sovereign but man is accountable for his actions.

Why pray when everything has already been for-ordained?

When met with these truths, we just have to accept them. The human mind cannot comprehend these truths.

I suppose same goes with the Trinity. Everytime someone tries to make it comprehensible you either end up with polytheism or modalism.

This post has been edited by thomasthai: May 22 2018, 01:47 PM

Back tracking a bit here;

Hi arminian brother,

I don't think you understand reformed calvinistic soteriology.

Saved by faith alone just means you can only be justified, legally declared righteous by God, by putting your faith and trust in the works of Christ and double imputation of righteousness and sin, and not by anything you have done, doing, and will do.

Nothing to do with obedience, yet. By grace through faith in Christ deals with soteriology.

Are you aware that the Martin Luther that you attacked also said "We are saved by faith alone, but the faith that saves is never alone"?

Long story short, genuine saving faith will always produce good works.
Why not confess, trust, hear and do? They are not mutually exclusive at all.

How do you deal with the text in Romans where Paul says hes struggling with his flesh, and he calls himself a wretched man and the chief sinner? Paul is not a Christian then? Christ did not dwell in him?

I'm willing to defend Calvinism because it is defendable scripturally. Let me know if you want to hear me out.

Calvinists don't have any problems with that verse, a repentant sinner will always exhibit a changed life.

I suppose the million dollar question in this discussion is, can a christian still sin or, can a christian lose his salvation?

I will attempt to answer the second question first from the calvinist's position.

Calvinistic soteriology always starts with God sovereignly elect people that He chooses to save. Whoever He predestined to save, He calls, He justifies, and He glorifies. That's Romans 8. Salvation is God's work from begining to the end. Theologians call this monergism. (read Eph 1, Titus 1, Jude, Johns gospel, it's all over the scripture)

Let's see what Jesus said in John 10:


Jesus said no one is able to snatch those that belongs to Him away, because they were given to Him by the Father.

No one means no one. All that the Father gives Him, will safely reach Him.

Romans 8


Again Paul says here, no one can separate the elects from God, nothing created, not even death.

To say otherwise you will have to say that the text doesn't mean what it says, and doesnt say what it means.

Worst still, it puts the power of salvation in the sinner's hand, impugning the power of God to save.

(to be continued...)

This post has been edited by thomasthai: Jun 25 2018, 09:23 AM

(continued)

Does the old testament teach sovereign election?



This is the new covenant of grace promised to the house of Israel by God, later available to the church.

Notice the I will, I will, I will, I will.. Nothing says what Israel will do. Sovereign election.

(theres a parallel verse in Ezekiel too)

The new covenant signed in Christ's blood will be internal, not external. The law will be written in the believer's heart, not an external law that the believer cannot fulfil.

His followers will delight the law because the Spirit is in them.

From here we can see another truth of the reformed faith:

Regeneration precedes faith.

You can come to Christ because the Spirit first regenerates you, giving you the faith to follow Him.



We were totally dead in our sins before, with no chance of ever coming to Christ on our own. We were made alive by the Spirit (regeneration). Nothing to boast about. Calvininists call this Total depravity of men.

If we were to come to Christ by our own merit, nobody would be saved.

(to be continued)

This post has been edited by thomasthai: Jun 28 2018, 05:07 AM

(continued)

Is God unjust if He chooses to save some and not the rest then?



Grace by definition is unmerited favour. None of us deserved grace.

After the fall of Adam, no one seeks righteousness, not one.



God chooses to have mercy on whoever He chooses. All men deserves to be punished after all.

The elects get grace from God, the others get justice, nobody gets injustice.

(to be continued)

I presume the question behind this statement is "why do we see Christians fall away from faith?"



They went out because they never really belonged to the faith in the begining.

Perseverance of the saints

Believe it or not, the bible commands us to have assurance in our salvation.



John's 1st epistle is written to the saints so that we have assurance of eternal life.

The whole epistle is a series of doctrinal tests, so you can practically examine whether you are in the faith.

Among the tests are:
Christology- you must have a correct view of Christ
Do not love anything in the world
Love your brothers
Testing the doctrines of false teachers
Always confess your sins
Do not practise lawlessness

Im not asserting anything on anyone.

My view of calvinism is this, through legitimate and sound hermeneutics, we can properly understand the bible and what God wants us to know, and only by using a proper theological framework we will not be tossed here and there by any winds of doctrines of false teachers.

Are you saying Im more calvin than calvin?

On what i said do you not agree?

The promise of eternal life was made even before the world was created, and He has already chosen His own before time began.

You are looking at the Covenant of Redemption here, where a promise was made between the Trinity to save a group of people before everything was even created.

Look back at ezekiel for this promise:


Again we see I will, I will, I will.. Unilateral, unconditional sovereign election.

This is the new covenant where God puts the Spirit in the believers to walk in His statutes. Believers will not obey the law externally to get salvation, but will love the law of God and exhibit it in his life.

I take it that you do not believe in the trinity?

Can you explain more on your views?

This post has been edited by thomasthai: Jul 2 2018, 10:10 AM

The trinity is all over in the old testament, sylar. The doctrine of trinity has been tested for many hundreds of years.

The " with" here in Greek is Pros ton the on, it conveys the meaning of "face to face" and equality. So the Word (Jesus) was face to face, was God but yet distinct with the Father.

I dont know how else can you read this verse.

Scripture clearly makes a distinction between the Father and the Son.

This post has been edited by thomasthai: Jul 3 2018, 05:13 AM

Going back to Jesus' sermon on the mount, being angry with you brother for no good reason is equivalent to murder and looking lustfully at another lady is equivalent to committing adultery with her.

Reality is, we sin against God in speech, thought and act daily without even realising it. Even the tiniest selfish thought you have for a fraction of a second is sin.

In my own walk I am more and more sensitive to my sins everyday. Not even talking about porn and things like that, but things like fighting for a parking spot in the morning to work, you dont even realise you are being selfish.

I'm not the 'let go and let God' type too. I agree with the Christian synergism, we are called to work out our salvation, not work for our salvation. Big difference.

This post has been edited by thomasthai: Jul 10 2018, 05:54 AM