Well, it's nice but very less impact or breakthrough and repeating the same lyrics over and over again

my taste is below, quite a big meaning and strike through as well as very clear meaning

https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comme...ally_scares_me/

Ok... So... If I'm getting this right, the majority of the answers are trying to mix Grace and Law? Because if what they say is right then apa beza dengan every other religion?

Good morning, I just know yesterday that...
Why need to spilt into methodist and protestant?
Why can't just have one type of Christian?
So, which type am I now?

Thanks for your reply.
I am an employee before before starting to pursue my own business with 2 other partners and get to know my ex-gf who is Christian.
I get to know Christ through my gf too.

Yes, I did do investments... and of course one of my motive is to get rich. (Yes, I came from a poor family and my dad passed away when I was just 10 years old).

So, it's that a sin to go for wealth?

I see many Christians in my church driving Audi, Mercs, Beemer, branded cars... some even are Datuks and stays in fancy Bunglows.

So, I guess your statement above "To be rich? and why you want to be rich? to buy material stuffs?. My answer is YES. So, what's the deal? Does Christians needs to be biased to those who are rich, chasing wealth etc? There are quite a number of them in my church.

Sorry if my post offended you... but as I said before, I like to challenge something till the end.

The conventional answer I find is 'proof that you're truly saved/committed to Christ' ect ect. True and False Christians.

But I also remember you had mentioned that it's the transformation of life here on Earth.

I think RC Sproul gives a very good explaination on salvation and works.

Catholics teach that salvation = faith + works

Many false teachers will say salvation = faith alone

This gives many people a false security that they can believe in Jesus and keep on living their sinful lives thinking they are saved, aka salvation without lordship to Christ.

And then other people will attack people who teach the Lordship of Christ as a works-salvation.

But at the heart of the issue, the scripture really teaches this : true faith = salvation + works

If you have no works, you still love your sins, you have no salvation.

Not only will this shake the faith of those people (who thinks that they are saved for raising their hands during altar call), but will encourage the true belivers that their faith is real because their works are visible.

Hope all are clear on this.

no one argue that salvation is not by faith alone
The problem with some preacher is that they suggest one can accept Jesus as saviour without accepting Jesus as Lord of their life. below article put it together quite well.
Question: "What is cheap grace?"

Answer: The term “cheap grace” can be traced back to a book written by German theologian, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, called The Cost of Discipleship, published in 1937. In that book, Bonhoeffer defined “cheap grace” as “the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline. Communion without confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ.” Notice what is emphasized in Bonhoeffer’s definition of cheap grace and what is de-emphasized. The emphasis is on the benefits of Christianity without the costs involved; hence, the adjective cheap to describe it.

A similar debate regarding cheap grace erupted in the 1980s and 1990s in theLordship Salvation controversy. The controversy began when pastor and theologian John MacArthur objected to a teaching that was becoming popular in evangelical circles called “carnal Christianity.” The reference is to a statement that the apostle Paul made in his first letter to the church at Corinth: “But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ” (1 Corinthians 3:1). The phrase “of the flesh” is the Greek word sarkinos, meaning “flesh.” The word carnal comes from the Latin word for “flesh.” In the New Testament, flesh can simply mean “skin, flesh, body.” However, Paul often uses it to speak of our sinful nature—that unredeemed part of man with whom the new man in Christ must battle daily (Romans 7; 1 Corinthians 3:1-3; 2 Corinthians 10:2; Galatians 5:16-19).

The idea of carnal Christianity essentially teaches that as long as one makes a profession of faith in Christ, he or she is saved (Romans 10:9), even if there is no immediate obedience to the commands of Jesus and the apostles to live a life of holiness. It is the idea that we can have Jesus as Savior, but not necessarily as Lord. People who advocate for carnal Christianity, or “free grace” as it’s often called, do not deny the necessity of good works (i.e., holy living) for sanctification, but they distinguish the call for salvation from the call to sanctification (or discipleship).

There are many Scripture passages that free grace advocates use to support their position. It is not necessary to cite them all, but two of the most popular and forceful passages are John 3:16 and Romans 10:9.

• For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16)

• Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. (Romans 10:9)

Clearly, these passages, and others, teach that the one who believes in Jesus Christ “has eternal life” and “will be saved.” There is no disputing this. However, what people like John MacArthur and others were objecting to is not that salvation and eternal life are free gifts of God’s grace, but rather the teaching that the call to salvation does not also include a call to repentance and holy living. In other words, they were objecting that the doctrine of free grace was becoming a doctrine of cheap grace. What the proponents of Lordship Salvation assert is that salvation is a call to discipleship, that one cannot have Jesus as Savior without also acknowledging Him as Lord.

The New Testament uses the word for “Lord” (kurios) 748 times, and 667 of those times it is used in reference to God or Jesus (e.g., “Jesus Christ our Lord,” Romans 1:4). In contrast, the New Testament uses the word for “savior” (soter) only 24 times. It seems clear that the emphasis in the New Testament is on Jesus Christ as Lord, not as Savior. Now in saying that, it is not meant to downplay or denigrate the saving work of Jesus Christ on the cross. What a glorious and gracious provision God has made for His people in providing Jesus Christ as our atoning sacrifice who thereby guarantees salvation and eternal life for those who believe in Him. Jesus Christ is most certainly our Savior, but this cannot be separated from the fact that Jesus Christ is Lord, and as Lord, He commands and we obey. 

Jesus, in His Great Commission to the 11 remaining disciples, commanded them to go into all the world and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them and teaching them to observe all that He had commanded them (Matthew 28:19-20). Evangelism and discipleship go hand in hand. A disciple is one who observes (keeps, obeys) all that Jesus has commanded. There is no two-stage process in Christianity—first, be saved; then become a disciple. This arbitrary distinction is foreign to the New Testament and therefore foreign to Christianity. 

To play off the title of Bonhoeffer’s book, let’s look at what Jesus said to His disciples about discipleship in Luke 14:25-33. In that passage, Jesus says to the crowds that no one can be His disciple unless they first hate their family (v. 26). Furthermore, the one who cannot bear his own cross cannot be His disciple (v. 27). Two conditions are given by Jesus in order to be His disciple. The first is to be willing to renounce family in order to follow Jesus. The second is to be willing to die, both literally and metaphorically (“die to self”) in order to follow Jesus. Jesus then gives two examples of “counting the cost.” The first is an example of a man who desires to build a tower without first counting the cost of building the tower. After realizing he cannot complete it, he gives up in shame and embarrassment. The second is that of a king preparing to go to battle and making sure he can defend against the superior foe. The point Jesus is making is that discipleship has a cost.

Furthermore, discipleship requires repentance and obedience. At the beginning of Jesus’ ministry, the message He preached was a message of repentance (Matthew 4:17). The message of the apostles after Jesus’ resurrection and ascension was also one of repentance (Acts 2:38). Along with repentance comes obedience. Jesus told a crowd of listeners that salvation and obedience go hand in hand: “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?” (Luke 6:46). Jesus then goes on to differentiate the one who builds his house on the sand from the one who builds his house on the rock, that is, the man who not only hears the words of Jesus, but does them, too.

Cheap grace seeks to hide the cost of discipleship from people. It seeks to claim that as long as we make a profession of faith, we are saved. God’s grace covers all our sins. Again, that is a wonderful truth! The apostle Paul says as much when he writes, “Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Romans 5:20-21). Yet, right after writing that, Paul follows it with this: “What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?” (Romans 6:1-2). Salvation by grace alone through faith alone is so much more than simply mouthing the words “Jesus is Lord.” We are not saved by a profession of faith. We are not saved by praying the Sinner’s Prayer. We are not saved by signing a card or walking an aisle. We are saved by a living and active faith (James 2:14-26), a faith that manifests itself in repentance, obedience and love of God and our neighbor. Salvation is not a transaction; it’s a transformation. Paul says it best when he says we are “new creations” in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). There is nothing “cheap” about grace!

Thank you. this really does put my heart at ease.

It really fills me with anxiety when people go "you have to put your faith by living right, otherwise you're not truly saved."

There are a lot of things that I want to do, or think I should do, but I just can't get past the first step. So it's a spiral of angst and anxiety of not living up to standards.

It's the main reason why I dare not go to church anymore. The cycle had become unbearable. I know it's bad and the worst thing to do, but... I just can't.

There's one thing I don't understand. Why is there so much rage against One Saved Always Saved? People calling it demonic doctrine and so on

Edited for clarification

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works;  and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
James 2:14‭-‬26 ESV
http://bible.com/59/jas.2.14-26.ESV

Nobody is saying salvation requires works.

Bottom line is, true faith will produce good works.

So do you believe that a person can say the sinner's prayer at a point in time and disappear from church forever, and still be saved?

My friend,
i've explained what you want to say through the Word of God.
I think it is what you want to say.
but i kinda summarized your 'questions' because God has already did that for us :-)

But i reckon whatever opinions or statements that we have or stand on, must be reproved by God's word. Remember Christ was as such. Often times Jesus would bring up the old testament statements and words... even apostles.. disciples.. so should we...

Again, im not preaching works-salvation.

Im just saying justification and sanctification goes hand in hand. You cannot have justification without sanctification.

     

If I may, brother, I think the terms are thrown around too easily without knowing them a little bit more

We are justified before God during our salvation (Rom. 3:24, 28). But at the same time, we sanctified in Christ (Heb. 10:14, 13:12). In other words, when we saved by faith, we are justified and sanctified in Christ.

The sanctification that we obtain in God's salvation may be divided into two aspects - positional and dis positional or progressive. Positional sanctification is the fact of sanctification that we obtained in Christ when we believed. Although we may not have the experience of sanctification, we obtained the fact of sanctification in Christ when we believed; that is, we gained the position of sanctification. Although we obtained the fact and position of sanctification upon believing, the experience of sanctification occurs only after our salvation (Heb. 12:14, 1 Pet. 1:15).

But, bro thomas thomasthai did not made clear which sanctification is he referring to. Neither did he mentioned on Sproul's view on salvation is (http://www.ligonier.org/blog/what-role-do-good-works-play-salvation/  ---- especially on the 3rd paragraph), which is, salvation covers the entire process and not only the initial stage.

If he is, then this point ... is something which was not addressed .... the "...but there’s still more of your salvation yet to come". Otherwise, we are talking past each other.

Had similar discussion with few brothers and sisters few years back.

And this is my understanding to this problem.

So in your mind, which / what standard of living that you should have only that you can go to church?

To me, if that's the case, I think no one here will able to qualify to go to church. I think my standard might not even good enough compare to a lot of other non-Christian. I always think that this is the lie that satan wants us to believe.

Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." - Mark 2:17

If one ask, am I saved? My answer would be Yes. And do I sin? Yes, I still sin.

But through His crucifixion, I can now have a personal relationship with Him. And this personal relationship is what keeps me going. Even when I sin, I know that I am saved, and with the help of HS, I learn that this is not what a follower of Christ should be like. This makes me want to stay away from sin more and till one day, I have the freedom to choose not to sin.

I hope that this will help you a little bit as this is what helped me.

Sorry i was away for a business trip.
1) Christianity will grow closer to the catholics. Catholics to begin with have many flaws and theories enough to debunk themselves.
2) * snip*

eanings that we should know how He returns. Basically we wouldnt know when Jesus returns. But the manner of events, we may be able to predict.
Just a theory with NO Backing whatsoever.


Indeed, the world is being set up for a fall.

All these Hollywood productions (aliens, superheroes, space movies) have been conditioning the masses.

Sad to say, the world is very susceptible & ripe for the taking. 
Amen brother! 

That doesn’t mean that we have a license to sin though, for the rod of chastisement would be terrible on our backs (in this life) & not to mention a loss of rewards at the Bema Seat.

The catch is, we don't really know the specific of those rewards until we get there. The suspense . . . . it's killin mehh 

Hebrews 12:6-8 does indeed serve as a stern warning of sorts.

I hope there are no bastards here 

In my personal walk, I do find that the HS can bear down on one’s spirit X100 more than my conscience can.

Lets just say, Christians can & do sin . . . . even for an extended period of time, until the shepherd comes calling. Sheep are indeed dumb & wayward.
Romans 7:15-20 is very profound for me.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.


It gets really tiring living in this naturally sinful sack of skin. Looking forward to the day when we get our glorified bodies  . No more temptations & disobedience.
I guess the response(or the lack thereof) to instantaneous regeneration of the spirit, at the moment of salvation differs from person to person.

Some are more emotional than others. Not insinuating that you're cold-blooded 

That is why we can't rely on our 'feelings' all the time & always go to the Bible, since even we ourselves can deceive ourselves.

For now, we are only spiritually renewed, but soon, faith shall give way to sight, & all will be revealed & we shall be like Him 

Yea, and when you refer to Greek and Hebrew.. try compare using a NIV and a KJV to translate it back to the original language.. and then you will get what i mean...

And reputation does not mean accuracy..
in the end.. who is it that matters more? the person's reputation? or the Bible and God's word that he preaches?