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 Diamond Ring Recommendation, Help

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TSeateat
post Jun 8 2017, 09:44 AM, updated 7y ago

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Hi smile.gif

I am planning to propose to my GF and currently looking for a diamond ring. I know this topic has been discussed thousand over time but still appreciate some good advise from you guys.

My main question is whether cuts really that important. I went to Poh Kong to see Hemera diamonds, it has 101 cuts compared to ordinary diamonds with 50+ cuts. I think the price difference is about 20% extra for Hemera. Is it better to get more cuts or spend this money on bigger or nicer colour diamond?

Round vs Heart Shape? I know round is the most ideal shape for better shines and etc... i think heart shape is unique and mot many people will get heart shape diamond.

Another question I have is about buying diamonds without certificate. The price is cheaper. Does the certificate really matter?

Serious reply only please. If you do not like my question, kindly ignore my thread.

Thank you everyone smile.gif
Thrust
post Jun 8 2017, 09:51 AM

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The more cut a diamond have, the shinier it is. It is up to you to decide.

It is best to have a certificate to give assurance that the diamond is genuine.

This post has been edited by Thrust: Jun 8 2017, 09:52 AM
kambingkoh
post Jun 8 2017, 11:21 AM

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QUOTE(eateat @ Jun 8 2017, 09:44 AM)
Hi smile.gif

I am planning to propose to my GF and currently looking for a diamond ring.  I know this topic has been discussed thousand over time but still appreciate some good advise from you guys.

My main question is whether cuts really that important.  I went to Poh Kong to see Hemera diamonds, it has 101 cuts compared to ordinary diamonds with 50+ cuts.  I think the price difference is about 20% extra for Hemera.  Is it better to get more cuts or spend this money on bigger or nicer colour diamond?

Round vs Heart Shape?  I know round is the most ideal shape for better shines and etc... i think heart shape is unique and mot many people will get heart shape diamond.

Another question I have is about buying diamonds without certificate.  The price is cheaper.  Does the certificate really matter?

Serious reply only please.  If you do not like my question, kindly ignore my thread. 

Thank you everyone smile.gif
*
First of all, CUT also covers the proportions of the diamond, such as pavilion angle, crown angle, total depth. When we discussed about cut, we focus on pavilion angle and crown angle mainly because that's where the light gets reflected. Overall, CUT is really the most important factor in determining the light play within the diamond:

Attached Image
Captured from here

Hemera is their own proprietary cut. Standard round brilliant is cut to 57 facets, while Hemera is cut to 101 facets. The main difference is that the one with more facets will have cover the diamond area with "smaller windows" whereby the sparkles will also be smaller, but a lot (because more windows). For the one with lesser facets, it will cover the same diamond area with "bigger windows", whereby the sparkles will be bolder.

It is also said that the extra sparkle (scintillation) will be at the expense of fire and brilliance as well: Read this article by Hearts on Fire. That's why I will prefer to stick with the traditional 57 facets which is well-proven over time to provide the optimum performance in all areas - Scintillation, Fire, Brilliance.

To me, extra facets is really sold by that "one (or few)" company to make it unique that the rest, other diamonds like these includes Gassan 121 (121 facets), Leo Diamonds (66 facets), Allove (81 facets). All said that they are the best, but it is more like a "they cut it, and they said it" scenario, unlike 57 facets, which has been standing there for so long as the standard.

The one thing that makes the diamond to have optimum performance is the proportions and the cut precision. Diamonds with excellent proportions will be called Ideal Cut, while diamonds that are Ideal Cut + excellent optical proportions, we will call it Super Ideal Cut, aka Heart & Arrows. Few reputable vendors for Hearts & Arrows include:
Brian Gavin Diamonds (affiliate link)
WhiteFlash (affiliate link)
High Performance Diamonds
Jann Paul

You may refer to my blog post here.

I got mine from WhiteFlash and I set it locally by iDo Jewellery.

You may read about my experience with WhiteFlash here.

As for Heart Shape Diamonds, I was told that you have to view the actual diamond to see if you like it or not, and it is not as easy to choose as round brilliant. I have replied to another forumer here regarding Heart Shape Diamonds here.

Nevertheless, at the end of the day, it depends on what you like. And remember, everything looks beautiful in the shop. You probably can request the salesperson to view the diamond in the shop's back office, or go view under direct sunlight. It may help you to see which one can perform the best under various environments.s

And yes, certificates are important. Reputable labs include GIA and AGS. Some other labs may have standards that are not that strict, so have to beware.

Good luck and all the best!

This post has been edited by kambingkoh: Jun 8 2017, 11:46 AM
TSeateat
post Jun 8 2017, 01:40 PM

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QUOTE(Thrust @ Jun 8 2017, 09:51 AM)
The more cut a diamond have, the shinier it is. It is up to you to decide.

It is best to have a certificate to give assurance that the diamond is genuine.
*
Hi Hi

Thanks for the reply... i think it make sense for diamond idiot like to me to go for diamond with certificate..
TSeateat
post Jun 8 2017, 01:44 PM

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QUOTE(kambingkoh @ Jun 8 2017, 11:21 AM)
First of all, CUT also covers the proportions of the diamond, such as pavilion angle, crown angle, total depth. When we discussed about cut, we focus on pavilion angle and crown angle mainly because that's where the light gets reflected. Overall, CUT is really the most important factor in determining the light play within the diamond:

Attached Image
Captured from here

Hemera is their own proprietary cut. Standard round brilliant is cut to 57 facets, while Hemera is cut to 101 facets. The main difference is that the one with more facets will have cover the diamond area with "smaller windows" whereby the sparkles will also be smaller, but a lot (because more windows). For the one with lesser facets, it will cover the same diamond area with "bigger windows", whereby the sparkles will be bolder.

It is also said that the extra sparkle (scintillation) will be at the expense of fire and brilliance as well: Read this article by Hearts on Fire. That's why I will prefer to stick with the traditional 57 facets which is well-proven over time to provide the optimum performance in all areas - Scintillation, Fire, Brilliance.

To me, extra facets is really sold by that "one (or few)" company to make it unique that the rest, other diamonds like these includes Gassan 121 (121 facets), Leo Diamonds (66 facets), Allove (81 facets). All said that they are the best, but it is more like a "they cut it, and they said it" scenario, unlike 57 facets, which has been standing there for so long as the standard.

The one thing that makes the diamond to have optimum performance is the proportions and the cut precision. Diamonds with excellent proportions will be called Ideal Cut, while diamonds that are Ideal Cut + excellent optical proportions, we will call it Super Ideal Cut, aka Heart & Arrows. Few reputable vendors for Hearts & Arrows include:
Brian Gavin Diamonds (affiliate link)
WhiteFlash (affiliate link)
High Performance Diamonds
Jann Paul

You may refer to my blog post here.

I got mine from WhiteFlash and I set it locally by iDo Jewellery.

You may read about my experience with WhiteFlash here.

As for Heart Shape Diamonds, I was told that you have to view the actual diamond to see if you like it or not, and it is not as easy to choose as round brilliant. I have replied to another forumer here regarding Heart Shape Diamonds here.

Nevertheless, at the end of the day, it depends on what you like. And remember, everything looks beautiful in the shop. You probably can request the salesperson to view the diamond in the shop's back office, or go view under direct sunlight. It may help you to see which one can perform the best under various environments.s

And yes, certificates are important. Reputable labs include GIA and AGS. Some other labs may have standards that are not that strict, so have to beware.

Good luck and all the best!
*
Hi Hi

Thanks for the information. Now i know diamond a little better.. so in general, ideal cut is more important right as it gives better shines?

smile.gif
kambingkoh
post Jun 8 2017, 03:54 PM

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QUOTE(eateat @ Jun 8 2017, 01:44 PM)
Hi Hi

Thanks for the information.  Now i know diamond a little better..  so in general, ideal cut is more important right as it gives better shines? 

smile.gif
*
Yes, you are correct. wink.gif

You can also go to Audreys to do price survey as well. Other overseas websites such as Enchanted Diamonds, Bluenile, JamesAllen, WhiteFlash, Brian Gavin, High Performance Diamonds can also give you a rough estimate of diamond price. Just need to convert the price to RM.

You may noticed that Super Ideals (WhiteFlash A-Cut-Above, Brian Gavin Signature, Black by Brian Gavin, etc) selling price will usually be more expensive than normal Ideals because they take longer time to polish and there will be more diamond wasted to achieve the best optical precision possible.

For normal Ideal GIA, I think Bluenile is a good place to survey. You can consider to focus on their Signature diamond pricing.

Hope this helps. Good luck!
bb100
post Jun 8 2017, 04:19 PM

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QUOTE(eateat @ Jun 8 2017, 09:44 AM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Round vs Heart Shape?  I know round is the most ideal shape for better shines and etc... i think heart shape is unique and mot many people will get heart shape diamond.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

*
Allow me to reply to you with regards to heart shaped diamonds as I recently just gotten one for my engagement ring.

You can't really judge the quality of a heart shape based on its 4Cs alone, as it does not have a set of predefined ideal proportions like the round brilliant. What you need to do here (if you are set on getting a heart) is that you need to personally look at the stone to see if you like its shape cuz no two heart shaped diamonds are alike.

For engagement rings, people typically look for slightly plump hearts cuz they appear "happier", as opposed to an elongated heart. Elongated heart shapes make it have an overall skinner outline and it gives you the feeling macam the diamond tak cukup makan haha.

That's all for this post bro. Don't wanna load you with too many info. Let me know if you require more details on heart shaped diamonds.

This post has been edited by bb100: Jun 8 2017, 04:24 PM
TSeateat
post Jun 8 2017, 05:05 PM

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QUOTE(bb100 @ Jun 8 2017, 04:19 PM)
Allow me to reply to you with regards to heart shaped diamonds as I recently just gotten one for my engagement ring.

You can't really judge the quality of a heart shape based on its 4Cs alone, as it does not have a set of predefined ideal proportions like the round brilliant. What you need to do here (if you are set on getting a heart) is that you need to personally look at the stone to see if you like its shape cuz no two heart shaped diamonds are alike.

For engagement rings, people typically look for slightly plump hearts cuz they appear "happier", as opposed to an elongated heart. Elongated heart shapes make it have an overall skinner outline and it gives you the feeling macam the diamond tak cukup makan haha.

That's all for this post bro. Don't wanna load you with too many info. Let me know if you require more details on heart shaped diamonds.
*
Hey... I really appreciate all the advises and ideas from you guys. I think Heart shape is unique but may not have a good value compared to round diamonds..and usually those really good value ones are easily 1ct and above... which is out of my budget...

May i know where did you get your heart shape diamond ? I am now deciding between heart shape and round... but still budget comes first.
bb100
post Jun 8 2017, 05:17 PM

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QUOTE(eateat @ Jun 8 2017, 05:05 PM)
Hey...  I really appreciate all the advises and ideas from you guys.  I think Heart shape is unique but may not have a good value compared to round diamonds..and usually those really good value ones are easily 1ct and above... which is out of my budget... 

May i know where did you get your heart shape diamond ?  I am now deciding between heart shape and round...  but still budget comes first.
*
I am not sure about the value of heart shaped diamonds bro. But one thing I know, be it a round brilliant or heart shape or even an emerald cut, the diamond which you choose is going to be invaluable to your fiancee.

I got mine at JannPaul Singapore. Carat for carat, of course hearts are cheaper than rounds. So for the same amount of money, you are able to get a larger diamond if you go for heart shape.
TSeateat
post Jun 8 2017, 05:27 PM

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QUOTE(kambingkoh @ Jun 8 2017, 03:54 PM)
Yes, you are correct. wink.gif

You can also go to Audreys to do price survey as well. Other overseas websites such as Enchanted Diamonds, Bluenile, JamesAllen, WhiteFlash, Brian Gavin, High Performance Diamonds can also  give you a rough estimate of diamond price. Just need to convert the price to RM.

You may noticed that Super Ideals (WhiteFlash A-Cut-Above, Brian Gavin Signature, Black by Brian Gavin, etc) selling price will usually be more expensive than normal Ideals because they take longer time to polish and there will be more diamond wasted to achieve the best optical precision possible.

For normal Ideal GIA, I think Bluenile is a good place to survey. You can consider to focus on their Signature diamond pricing.

Hope this helps. Good luck!
*
Hi Hi

Yes... Audrey offers a good place to survey the price of the diamonds... as for the price... so far i saw 0.5 starts from 9k to 14k... 0.7 starts from 15k... cry.gif
TSeateat
post Jun 8 2017, 05:28 PM

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QUOTE(bb100 @ Jun 8 2017, 05:17 PM)
I am not sure about the value of heart shaped diamonds bro. But one thing I know, be it a round brilliant or heart shape or even an emerald cut, the diamond which you choose is going to be invaluable to your fiancee.

I got mine at JannPaul Singapore. Carat for carat, of course hearts are cheaper than rounds. So for the same amount of money, you are able to get a larger diamond if you go for heart shape.
*
Thank you very much... i will research some heart shape diamond... hopefully can get something good...
bb100
post Jun 8 2017, 05:56 PM

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From: Ipoh, Perak



QUOTE(eateat @ Jun 8 2017, 05:27 PM)
Hi Hi

Yes... Audrey offers a good place to survey the price of the diamonds...  as for the price... so far i saw 0.5 starts from 9k to 14k... 0.7 starts from 15k... cry.gif
*
There is a huge price jump at 0.7. So the best is to buy shy. Maybe a 0.68 or 0.69 could do the trick. Same goes for 0.5.

This post has been edited by bb100: Jun 8 2017, 05:59 PM
bb100
post Jun 8 2017, 05:57 PM

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QUOTE(eateat @ Jun 8 2017, 05:28 PM)
Thank you very much...  i will research some heart shape diamond...  hopefully can get something good...
*
No problem bro. Glad I could help.
kambingkoh
post Jun 9 2017, 08:18 AM

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QUOTE(eateat @ Jun 8 2017, 05:27 PM)
Hi Hi

Yes... Audrey offers a good place to survey the price of the diamonds...  as for the price... so far i saw 0.5 starts from 9k to 14k... 0.7 starts from 15k... cry.gif
*
Lol. Just set a budget and stick to it bro. If 50-pointers and 70-pointers are too expensive, you can always consider 30-pointers or 40-pointers. There are better ways to spend the money saved. wink.gif
TSeateat
post Jun 9 2017, 08:50 AM

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QUOTE(bb100 @ Jun 8 2017, 05:56 PM)
There is a huge price jump at 0.7. So the best is to buy shy. Maybe a 0.68 or 0.69 could do the trick. Same goes for 0.5.
*
Hi... thanks for the tips... i also noticed 0.7 and above is alot more expensive.. now can't decide about the color and clarity.. the sales guy from Poh Kong told me under normal lights, you won't noticed much color difference from D-G.. unless compare it side by side..

but really appreciate your help smile.gif
TSeateat
post Jun 9 2017, 08:52 AM

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QUOTE(kambingkoh @ Jun 9 2017, 08:18 AM)
Lol. Just set a budget and stick to it bro. If 50-pointers and 70-pointers are too expensive, you can always consider 30-pointers or 40-pointers. There are better ways to spend the money saved. wink.gif
*
i am looking between 0.55-0.69... budget below 15k.. gonna need alot of patient in this... not an easy task.. haha
bb100
post Jun 9 2017, 09:26 AM

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QUOTE(eateat @ Jun 9 2017, 08:50 AM)
Hi...  thanks for the tips...  i also noticed 0.7 and above is alot more expensive..  now can't decide about the color and clarity..  the sales guy from Poh Kong told me under normal lights, you won't noticed much color difference from D-G.. unless compare it side by side..

but really appreciate your help smile.gif
*
He is true but to a certain extend. D to G colours have little noticeable difference only if the diamond is a well cut one. With bright flashes of light coming from the diamond all at once at different angles, it would be difficult to spot the colour difference. Plus, nobody is going to compare your diamond side by side lahh, unless he/she is an a$$.

If you are getting a round brilliant, go for the lowest clarity grade which is eye clean. VVS1 or VS2 does not affect light performance if their inclusions cannot be seen with the naked eye. The same cannot be said to the price though haha. If both are eye clean, why pay more for VVS1?
kambingkoh
post Jun 9 2017, 09:35 AM

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QUOTE(eateat @ Jun 9 2017, 08:52 AM)
i am looking between 0.55-0.69...  budget below 15k.. gonna need alot of patient in this...  not an easy task.. haha
*
Time for some affiliate work:

Here are 2 diamonds that I picked from Black by Brian Gavin. Both are affiliate links (which means I will earn some commission if you buy via either links).

USD 2853 + USD 44 shipment (approximate) = USD 2897 (Convert to MYR + GST = RM 13292.04)
0.593 F VS1

USD 2891 + USD 44 shipment (approximate) = USD 2935 (Convert to MYR + GST = RM 13466.40)
0.604 E VS2

I would prefer the F VS1 over the E VS2. You may think that the price is not worth it for that F VS1 because for that price, it is close to the 60-pointer. If we based on market price, yes, it is not worth it because 0.593 is almost there, but not there yet. However, if we go into the details, you will noticed that the F VS1 is actually larger face-up compared to the E VS2.

F VS1 : 5.39 x 5.42 x 3.34
E VS2 : 5.38 x 5.40 x 3.33

The actual reason I will choose 0.593ct over the 0.604ct is because the H&A and idealscope of the 0.593ct looks better than the 0.604ct. But if you want paper value, then 0.604ct maybe a better choice because it is a 60-pointer.

Ring setting price may vary from RM 1000 - RM 3000 and beyond (I assume starting price is more expensive since the carat size is bigger).

You can consider settings from:
1. Memory Jewellery
2. Eumayco
3. iDo Jewellery
4. Frou Frou

Memory Jewellery should provide the best value, but I would recommend you to check with each of them first before making the final decision.

Ok, that's all with my affiliate work.

In case you need any help, even from other jewellers, feel free to let us know. wink.gif


TSeateat
post Jun 9 2017, 10:47 AM

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QUOTE(bb100 @ Jun 9 2017, 09:26 AM)
He is true but to a certain extend. D to G colours have little noticeable difference only if the diamond is a well cut one. With bright flashes of light coming from the diamond all at once at different angles, it would be difficult to spot the colour difference. Plus, nobody is going to compare your diamond side by side lahh, unless he/she is an a$$.

If you are getting a round brilliant, go for the lowest clarity grade which is eye clean. VVS1 or VS2 does not affect light performance if their inclusions cannot be seen with the naked eye. The same cannot be said to the price though haha. If both are eye clean, why pay more for VVS1?
*
That's true... now i started looking at VS1/VS2 the price difference is quite alot compared to VVS1/2. Color wise i still sticking with D-F.. but i want nicely cut .. hehe.. using the GIA cut score tool sent by kambingkoh.. very useful for ppl like me

QUOTE(kambingkoh @ Jun 9 2017, 09:35 AM)
Time for some affiliate work:

Here are 2 diamonds that I picked from Black by Brian Gavin. Both are affiliate links (which means I will earn some commission if you buy via either links).

USD 2853 + USD 44 shipment (approximate) = USD 2897 (Convert to MYR + GST = RM 13292.04)
0.593 F VS1

USD 2891 + USD 44 shipment (approximate) =  USD 2935 (Convert to MYR + GST = RM 13466.40)
0.604 E VS2

I would prefer the F VS1 over the E VS2. You may think that the price is not worth it for that  F VS1 because for that price, it is close to the 60-pointer. If we based on market price, yes, it is not worth it because 0.593 is almost there, but not there yet. However, if we go into the details, you will noticed that the F VS1 is actually larger face-up compared to the E VS2.

F VS1 :  5.39 x 5.42 x 3.34
E VS2 :  5.38 x 5.40 x 3.33

The actual reason I will choose 0.593ct over the 0.604ct is because the H&A and idealscope of the 0.593ct looks better than the 0.604ct. But if you want paper value, then 0.604ct maybe a better choice because it is a 60-pointer.

Ring setting price may vary from RM 1000 - RM 3000 and beyond (I assume starting price is more expensive since the carat size is bigger).

You can consider settings from:
1. Memory Jewellery
2. Eumayco
3. iDo Jewellery
4. Frou Frou

Memory Jewellery should provide the best value, but I would recommend you to check with each of them first before making the final decision.

Ok, that's all with my affiliate work.

In case you need any help, even from other jewellers, feel free to let us know. wink.gif
*
wow.. this is interesting that your diamond hunting experience get you a new level of exposure into diamond business... it is cool... i will look at Brian Gavin later and the two stones that you recommended.

By the way, can i ask both of you about florescence ..... after google it.. i still don't know whether it is good or bad... Audrey's website will show the range from None - Strong - Faint .... damn it... sounds so alien to me
bb100
post Jun 9 2017, 11:53 AM

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QUOTE(eateat @ Jun 9 2017, 10:47 AM)
That's true...  now i started looking at VS1/VS2 the price difference is quite alot compared to VVS1/2.  Color wise i still sticking with D-F..  but i want nicely cut .. hehe..  using the GIA cut score tool sent by kambingkoh..  very useful for ppl like me
*
I am assuming that you are referring to the Enchanted cut score tool. That one is useful but do not depend entirely on it cuz the best way to judge is still with your own eyes. You can also try the HCA tool available here: https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca. This functions as a rejection tool. Automatically reject any stones with a HCA score of more than 2.0 if you are looking for super ideals. Again, even with a score of 0.4, you still need to physically inspect the diamond with the aid of scopes.

Fluorescence is quite a tricky thing to deal with. Some people like their diamonds to exhibit some degree of fluorescence cuz of the soft glow emitted by the diamond under UV light. Drillz:

user posted image

Personally, I only recommend up to medium fluorescence cuz if too strong then the stone might have an overall murky appearance. It will make the diamond look like a dead stone. Drillz of murky appearance:

user posted image

Fluorescence in a diamond is considered by many as a "defect" so the price of a diamond with fluorescence is lower than one without, depending on the degree of fluorescence. But many consumers are not aware of this so jewellers also make don't know lohh. They will tag a fluorescent diamond with the same price tag as one without so do take note.

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